BDutch Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 No. Healer should have the advantage or NO ONE would ever take a healer with them in PvP. Healers should be able to survive forever in a 1v1 against a dps. But guess what, that healer won't be able to kill you because they are too busy healing themselves. It ends in a stalemate...i call this balance. When my scoundrel does not have a DPS on him, he can freely use healing with cast time to keep multiple people up. When good DPS with interrupts is on him, he will only be able to survive as long as his weaker instant-casts allow him to. If you add Guard, these instant casts become much more self-sustaining. If you have other team-mates doing CC/peeling off your attackers, then you get more time to do the bigger heals. A healer does not have to be immortal 1v1 to be useful. Being able to keep themselves up indefinitely has nothing to do with how many team-mates they can keep up at the same time, (given the support of those team-mates). This isn't really any sort of comment on the current state of healing balance SWTOR, so much as just my opinion on healing in 1v1 for any game. I don't think healers should be free kills by any means either. They are almost always doing some small amount of damage to DPS that cannot do the same amount of self-healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 When my scoundrel does not have a DPS on him, he can freely use healing with cast time to keep multiple people up. When good DPS with interrupts is on him, he will only be able to survive as long as his weaker instant-casts allow him to. If you add Guard, these instant casts become much more self-sustaining. If you have other team-mates doing CC/peeling off your attackers, then you get more time to do the bigger heals. A healer does not have to be immortal 1v1 to be useful. Being able to keep themselves up indefinitely has nothing to do with how many team-mates they can keep up at the same time, (given the support of those team-mates). This isn't really any sort of comment on the current state of healing balance SWTOR, so much as just my opinion on healing in 1v1 for any game. I don't think healers should be free kills by any means either. They are almost always doing some small amount of damage to DPS that cannot do the same amount of self-healing. The problem is that against a decent team, healers will almost always have someone trying to kill them. Free-casting is not the norm..If they cant out-heal a DPS 1v1, then there is no point in the healer being there. Eventually the DPS will win and the healer didn't even do any damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Really it comes down to classes not having the tools to take down healers. Marauders and Juggernaut's just have their heavy damage output on their side and basically everyone else is boned. A healer vs dps shouldn't be a 10 hour stale mate, but should come down to who's better. I mean as a Vanguard you have to line up your CCs + interrupts like the stars in hopes of killing a healer. -- Example: Me vs Sage 1. Sage uses Innervate * I storm them. 2. Sage uses Dark Infusion * I interrupt. // 3. Sage uses Innervate again * I freeze them and run away. 4. Sage uses Dark Infusion again. * I storm or harpoon. // This is just cut and dry. Add in some knock backs, running away, and stuns and I still can't kill them. I can do the same crap with the two heals Merc's have and they still don't budge. It's just annoying. At least in WoW you had the eventuality that the healer is going to OOM after a while or when you interrupted them you had a chance of bursting them. If I see a healer out alone and I know they're good I don't even try to 1v1 them cause it's a waste of my time. Edited March 29, 2012 by ComeAndSee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 if its a really good healer, you probably wont be able to do it. but use your knockback and stuns to interrupt their casts, and try to hit them really hard with thermal det + rail shot. most times it is probably more advantageous to just leave the healer alone if its a 1v1 situation. theyre not going to kill you, so you might as well lead them towards the rest of your group so you can all kill them. people forget this game is not balanced for 1v1, but for organized team play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Really it comes down to classes not having the tools to take down healers. Marauders and Juggernaut's just have their heavy damage output on their side and basically everyone else is boned. A healer vs dps shouldn't be a 10 hour stale mate, but should come down to who's better. I mean as a Vanguard you have to line up your CCs + interrupts like the stars in hopes of killing a healer. This is just cut and dry. Add in some knock backs, running away, and stuns and I still can't kill them. I can do the same crap with the two heals Merc's have and they still don't budge. It's just annoying. At least in WoW you had the eventuality that the healer is going to OOM after a while or when you interrupted them you had a chance of bursting them. If I see a healer out alone and I know they're good I don't even try to 1v1 them cause it's a waste of my time. Which again...is as it should be. A healer vs DPS Should be a 10-hour stalemate...if it was a duel. Lucky for us this is a team game, GET SOME HELP!. Whoever has the better teamwork wins this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The problem is that against a decent team, healers will almost always have someone trying to kill them. Free-casting is not the norm..If they cant out-heal a DPS 1v1, then there is no point in the healer being there. Eventually the DPS will win and the healer didn't even do any damage. That's why I said you need your team to guard you, CC your attacker(s), and kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Which again...is as it should be. A healer vs DPS Should be a 10-hour stalemate...if it was a duel. Lucky for us this is a team game, GET SOME HELP!. Whoever has the better teamwork wins this one. Team mates just make the healers even more powerful. Healers win war zones by healing their allies and causing people to divert away from objectives to kill them. It's easy for me as a tank to protect a healer because of the tools available. Also, DPS + Tanks in this game are "throttled." Most classes abilities ignore tanks defensive stats and DPS don't have the control or tools to lock somebody completely out. For the most part -- except knockbacks off ledges or harpoons into fires -- you have full control of your character at all times and the worst thing that can happen to you right now is being root spammed. Edited March 29, 2012 by ComeAndSee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 DPS don't have the control or tools to lock somebody completely out. IMO, this is the reason why a lot of people think healers are OP. Since interrupts lock that specific ability and not similar abilities, people end up locking out the wrong abilities at least half the time. That's not even counting fake-casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Healer > tank > dps > healer healers shouldnt 1v1ing dps. tanks or other healers should be protecting them. its ok for a healer to keep up a person, its not ok for a healer to be the one tanking with his own heals. Or, alternatively, its ok for a healer to keep himself up until he burns out his mana bar. This endless heal tanking is COMPLETE BS. ROFL at the comment about healers being unbeatable in daoc. Must have not played very much. IN daoc any attack = interrupted cast. Healers only ever won if they could successfully kite. The days of the tanking healer need to be over now. Edited March 29, 2012 by Ahhmyface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numerii Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Really it comes down to classes not having the tools to take down healers. Marauders and Juggernaut's just have their heavy damage output on their side and basically everyone else is boned. A healer vs dps shouldn't be a 10 hour stale mate, but should come down to who's better. I mean as a Vanguard you have to line up your CCs + interrupts like the stars in hopes of killing a healer. -- Example: Me vs Sage 1. Sage uses Innervate * I storm them. 2. Sage uses Dark Infusion * I interrupt. // 3. Sage uses Innervate again * I freeze them and run away. 4. Sage uses Dark Infusion again. * I storm or harpoon. // This is just cut and dry. Add in some knock backs, running away, and stuns and I still can't kill them. I can do the same crap with the two heals Merc's have and they still don't budge. It's just annoying. At least in WoW you had the eventuality that the healer is going to OOM after a while or when you interrupted them you had a chance of bursting them. If I see a healer out alone and I know they're good I don't even try to 1v1 them cause it's a waste of my time. Don't worry about interrupting Innervate, or Healing Scan, or anything Operatives have that isn't Kolto Injection. If your DPS is good enough, they won't outheal your damage if you lock out Dark Infusion/Rapid Scan/Kolto Injection, and those spells only. Everything else just let it go through. It will take a while, but they will eventually start to drop. The problem most DPS have with healers is that they try to interrupt everything ie blowing their load. Edited March 29, 2012 by Numerii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The problem is that against a decent team, healers will almost always have someone trying to kill them. Free-casting is not the norm..If they cant out-heal a DPS 1v1, then there is no point in the healer being there. Eventually the DPS will win and the healer didn't even do any damage. HELLO THERE! Yes there is a point the healer not been able to outheal one guy 1v1 means just that, that he SUCKS at 1v1 as it should be. Now the difference comes when u get teammates helping you, as u said if u have a "decent team" they WILL make it so u can free-cast... Taking that into consideration there are PLENTY of reasons why to have a healer that sucks 1v1 in your team. I think all that healers want is to be incredibly OP like in that other game, were it takes 15 secs of constant ccs and all ur dps cds plus atleast two guys to kill one damn priest.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 HELLO THERE! Yes there is a point the healer not been able to outheal one guy 1v1 means just that, that he SUCKS at 1v1 as it should be. Now the difference comes when u get teammates helping you, as u said if u have a "decent team" they WILL make it so u can free-cast... Taking that into consideration there are PLENTY of reasons why to have a healer that sucks 1v1 in your team. I think all that healers want is to be incredibly OP like in that other game, were it takes 15 secs of constant ccs and all ur dps cds plus atleast two guys to kill one damn priest.... English cant be your first language... No matter how good your team is, as a healer you won't be free-casting all that much. If the other team is any good, you will have 2-4 people looking to kick your *** ALL game. And healers do suck 1v1, yea we can keep ourselves alive...but since when has healing ever killed anyone? It will end in a stalemate if everything is balanced between two equally skilled players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) English cant be your first language... No matter how good your team is, as a healer you won't be free-casting all that much. If the other team is any good, you will have 2-4 people looking to kick your *** ALL game. And healers do suck 1v1, yea we can keep ourselves alive...but since when has healing ever killed anyone? It will end in a stalemate if everything is balanced between two equally skilled players. Why must my first language not be english cuz i use internet speak in a video game forum?? tbh I didn't notice anything not sounding coherent in my post... Ok now... SOOOO? u got 4 people banging on u? do what any good healer does, and start pillar humping! that way u essentially take 4 guys out of the fight.... AND yea u can survive a pretty long time with 4 dps on u if u pillar hump good, btw you are not supposed to survive in ANY game (maybe WoW at times) 4 dps attacking u.... I really dont see any (if theres any) point ur trying to make... cuz mine is healers are terrific at teamplay and can absolutely carry an entire team, BUT should utterly suck when focused down. Edited March 29, 2012 by Assaultrooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Why must my first language not be english cuz i use internet speak in a video game forum?? tbh I didn't notice anything not sounding coherent in my post... Ok now... SOOOO? u got 4 people banging on u? do what any good healer does, and start pillar humping! that way u essentially take 4 guys out of the fight.... AND yea u can survive a pretty long time with 4 dps on u if u pillar hump good, btw you are not supposed to survive in ANY game (maybe WoW at times) 4 dps attacking u.... I really dont see any (if theres any) point ur trying to make... cuz mine is healers are terrific at teamplay and can absolutely carry an entire team, BUT should utterly suck when focused down. Maybe its just been a long day, but I had trouble understanding the first few sentences. I dont care about internet speak, I do the same thing. "Yes there is a point(,) the healer not been(being?) able to outheal one guy 1v1 means just that" "Now the difference comes when u get teammates helping you, as u said if u have a "decent team" they WILL make it so u can(I said that if the OTHER team is decent, they will make it so that you CANT free cast) free-cast" Anyway...I agree healers should die when getting focused by 4 people...and they do. Why are people complaining? It seems like they want DPS to always out-damage any healer. That will just make it so healers are useless. Just send one dps against the healer and he is completely out of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crrypto Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) The only hope a pyro merc has of killing a healer is if the healer slips and gets below 40%ish. If so, you can instant cast a fusion missile for the extra damage below 30 and with a burst rotation, a stun to interrupt, and a little luck you might be able to push them down. This also might not be an issue for a very competent or well geared healer but I kill my fair share this way, even ones with somewhat better gear than me. Edited March 29, 2012 by crrypto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythicrose Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 A pyrotech merc against any healer is an uphill battle at best. Your largest down fall is a lack of a single interrupt. All you have to stop a heal is your AoE knockback. Depending on skill point allocation you might have a second. Both have a decent cooldown in comparison to a healers multiple heals. Good luck if you ever find yourself in a situation of pyro merc vs bodyguard (think that's the tree name) merc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niconogood Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Merc/commando is the only class that cant kill a healer whatsoever, unless that healer is immensely undergeared. Somehow they still get nerfed though.. Hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaoogaa Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Healer > tank > dps > healer This is bad PVP design and has been for years. If the healer plays to the best of their ability and does everything right they still will lose to the average played DPS. If class balance is close then the balance will scale with the more players added to the battle. So healers should be viable 1 v 1 just as dps should be viable 5 v 5 when one team has 2 healers to none...this game is if everyone plays their class to the best it can be played...not so after 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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