Class icons in PVP in 1.2

[Baaddare]

I am not sure what the reasoning was in the first place to add class icons above players heads but the idea that in PVP the opposing side can see them is just plain wrong. Yes I can turn them off so that I do not see them but why should this information just be given to the other side. Yes a good pvper can tell by the weapons ( not the gear with the new changes to mods and upgrading) but that still takes a time abit a small amount. It seems to just be there to reduce the skill required for pvp ie one less thing for a poor pvper to learn

[Scorpid]

I am not sure what the reasoning was in the first place to add class icons above players heads but the idea that in PVP the opposing side can see them is just plain wrong. Yes I can turn them off so that I do not see them but why should this information just be given to the other side. Yes a good pvper can tell by the weapons ( not the gear with the new changes to mods and upgrading) but that still takes a time abit a small amount. It seems to just be there to reduce the skill required for pvp ie one less thing for a poor pvper to learn

 

"Yes a good pvper can tell by the weapons ( not the gear with the new changes to mods and upgrading) but that still takes a time abit a small amount. "

 

Not even sure what that means.. 'but that still takes a time abit a small amount.'

 

Anyway back on topic. Having these 'class icons' above your head does not give an advantage or an unfair advantage. Knowing who is what class really doesn't change the tide of pvp combat. Give me a better argument to why this would cause issues because 'new' pvpers don't have to learn how to identify Advanced Classes. They now however have to learn the symbols.

 

Look at other MMO's such as WoW, anyone who plays that game for an hour can easily tell who is what class. I like that BioWare is putting in options to help people have a better idea what advanced class people are.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Scorpid

[DarthxRage]

I don't see your complaint. Bad players aren't going to know the abilities of the other classes other than a few iconic moves. I'm not worried about losing any type of advantage.

[Baaddare]

"Yes a good pvper can tell by the weapons ( not the gear with the new changes to mods and upgrading) but that still takes a time abit a small amount. "

 

Not even sure what that means.. 'but that still takes a time abit a small amount.'

 

Anyway back on topic. Having these 'class icons' above your head does not give an advantage or an unfair advantage. Knowing who is what class really doesn't change the tide of pvp combat. Give me a better argument to why this would cause issues because 'new' pvpers don't have to learn how to identify Advanced Classes. They now however have to learn the symbols.

 

Look at other MMO's such as WoW, anyone who plays that game for an hour can easily tell who is what class. I like that BioWare is putting in options to help people have a better idea what advanced class people are.

 

ok you answered yourself with the exact reasons i said it gives and advantage. I will break it down for ya. With the icons even a poor players has the likely healer clearly marked for them from the start. There is no reason for them to even have the knowledge of what type of armor and or weapons a players uses. Now your reasoning for them seems to be that a pvper can tell who is what class without them while at the same time you are saying it helps people tell who is what advance class. Both of theses are the reasons they should not be in the game. It is alot easier to learn the symbols than it is to take the time to actually look at the avatar see the weapons they have and to process that information.

 

If it has no advantage then why have it at all. I can only assume you all are mainly pvers (nothing wrong with that by the way) as most pvpers want any advantage they can gain no matter how small it is.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Baaddare

[Scorpid]

Let me clear it up then, it all comes down to skills, not going 'HEY! I see a Sorcerer!!!'

 

These icons will not give people uber pvp skills.... There really is no effect on having these icons once so ever. These icons does not tell the other players that they have 'x' skill, and in order to counter 'x' skill, you must use 'y' skill. It takes more knowledge to successfully PvP then just seeing Icons above peoples heads.

 

And my first reply did not state anywhere that these 'AC Icons' gave noobs uber pvp skills. It simply helps people know which AC people are. This information still does not provide an advantage in PvP. There is much more to being good at PvP then just knowing which advanced class people are.

 

 

Your argument is pointless.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Scorpid

[Baaddare]

Let me clear it up then, it all comes down to skills, not going 'HEY! I see a Sorcerer!!!'

 

These icons will not give people uber pvp skills.... There really is no effect on having these icons once so ever. These icons does not tell the other players that they have 'x' skill, and in order to counter 'x' skill, you must use 'y' skill. It takes more knowledge to successfully PvP then just seeing Icons above peoples heads.

 

 

Your argument is pointless.

 

actually your agurment is pointless as you state on one hand they make no difference yet you argue for them. Yes it takes more knowledge than know the other sides icosn but even a tinny advantage is an advantage. Seeing that some one is a sorcerer from they weapons say is a skill. Nor am i saying it gives peopel uber skills to have the icons. I am saying since it servers no function but to reduce an advantage there is no reason for it. So far no one has provided any reason behind having them ,either in pvp or pve, except to make it easier in pvp to id the other sides classes.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Baaddare

[Darthshnooky]

No difference between seeing weapons and recognizing class, and seeing icon and recognizing class. Bad players will still not understand what these classes can do (nor bother memorizing what each icon represents) and good players will just have the recognition, at most, be slightly easier.

 

Nothing lost, nothing gained.

[Scorpid]

I guess you fail to see the reason. If this is your first MMO then i would understand why you are a bit confused to why BioWare has put in these Advanced Class Icons.

 

Its only purpose is to help those identify faster without having to mouse over them, this information is in the game right now, the only difference with 1.2 you can see this information above ones head without having to do a mouse over.

 

You say there is a small advantage in having this information displayed above ones head. To whoms advantage is it? When this feature is opened to everyone this cannot be stated as an advantage as everyone has access to this information.

 

For someone to have an advantage they would have to have something that others do not have access to. With the Advanced Class Icons being giving to every single player in SWTOR this cannot be stated as an advantage as everyone has this information.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Scorpid

[Baaddare]

I guess you fail to see the reason. If this is your first MMO then i would understand why you are a bit confused to why BioWare has put in these Advanced Class Icons.

 

Its only purpose is to help those identify faster without having to mouse over them, this information is in the game right now, the only difference with 1.2 you can see this information above ones head without having to do a mouse over.

 

You say there is a small advantage in having this information displayed above ones head. To whoms advantage is it? When this feature is opened to everyone this cannot be stated as an advantage as everyone has access to this information.

 

For someone to have an advantage they would have to have something that others do not have access to. With the Advanced Class Icons being giving to every single player in SWTOR this cannot be stated as an advantage as everyone has this information.

 

actually it is not and i would guess wow was your first.

 

I can agree that is is equal to both sides and can agree that is is information that is ingame already. My point was which your argument previously agreeged with was it made it easier for people to ID the other side and since that was all it does I can see no reason for it since a good pvper could ID the other side without it. Very simple argument. You yourself have stated that its purpose is to make it easier to ID the other side.

[Baaddare]

No difference between seeing weapons and recognizing class, and seeing icon and recognizing class. Bad players will still not understand what these classes can do (nor bother memorizing what each icon represents) and good players will just have the recognition, at most, be slightly easier.

 

Nothing lost, nothing gained.

 

I would tend to agree with this which is why i wonder what the intent is in having it in the first place as all it seemed to do was to make it easier to id the other side.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Baaddare

[Scorpid]

actually it is not and i would guess wow was your first.

 

I can agree that is is equal to both sides and can agree that is is information that is ingame already. My point was which your argument previously agreeged with was it made it easier for people to ID the other side and since that was all it does I can see no reason for it since a good pvper could ID the other side without it. Very simple argument. You yourself have stated that its purpose is to make it easier to ID the other side.

 

If you must know my histy of MMOs it goes as followed.

 

Tibia, Ultima Online, Ragnarok, EverQuest, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft, Rift, SWTOR, Tera

 

With a lot of random games in between.

 

Betas as of this year: WoW: MoP, TERA, D3, FireFall

 

Its natural to insult those who prove you wrong i guess? You are the only one in this thread who believes for what ever reason that these advanced class icons serve an advantage, which i will point out again an advantage that everyone gets, thus making it no real advantage over anyone else.

[theangryllama]

I would tend to agree with this which is why i wonder what the intent is in having it in the first place as all it seemed to do was to make it easier to id the other side.

 

I'd guess it would be to balance out the fact that with the new custom gear many may go out of their way to disguise what they are.

 

If I'm defending a node on my powertech but am wearing juggernaught heavy armor, without my weapons out I could be a juggernaught, a powertech or a merc all capable of wearing said heavy armor.

 

And then of course if they bring in heavy and medium versions of the social armor. What class is that guy standing there in a sand people outfit... it could be any of 8 possible ones!

Edited March 29, 2012 by theangryllama

[senojones]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that was added since you can choose to look like another class and keep all your set-bonus / mods.

[Scorpid]

I'd guess it would be to balance out the fact that with the new custom gear many may go out of their way to disguise what they are.

 

If I'm defending a node on my powertech but am wearing juggernaught heavy armor, without my weapons out I could be a juggernaught, a powertech or a merc all capable of wearing said heavy armor.

 

And then of course if they bring in heavy and medium versions of the social armor. What class is that guy standing there in a sand people outfit... it could be any of 8 possible ones!

 

This was exactly there reason to adding the advanced class icons above players heads. I see no issues with this feature once so ever.

[Baaddare]

If you must know my histy of MMOs it goes as followed.

 

Tibia, Ultima Online, Ragnarok, EverQuest, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft, Rift, SWTOR, Tera

 

With a lot of random games in between.

 

Betas as of this year: WoW: MoP, TERA, D3, FireFall

 

Its natural to insult those who prove you wrong i guess? You are the only one in this thread who believes for what ever reason that these advanced class icons serve an advantage, which i will point out again an advantage that everyone gets, thus making it no real advantage over anyone else.

 

I would pointout I have been nothing be civil to you. You called into question someones xp with MMO's becasue you disagreeded with them. I made the assumption that WoW was yoru first MMo since you compared pvp here to there as opposed to some of the good claims you say you have played. Frantkly, I am shocked that someone who played EQ . You actually agreed with what I said yet somehow think you did not. To whit, I stated that the only reason I can see for the icons is to make it easier to ID the oppossing players in PvP.

 

"I like that BioWare is putting in options to help people have a better idea what advanced class people are. "

"It simply helps people know which AC people are."

"Its only purpose is to help those identify faster without having to mouse over them, this information is in the game right now, the only difference with 1.2 you can see this information above ones head without having to do a mouse over."

 

Notice a trend here. These statements all support my contention that their only purpose is to make it easier to ID peoples AC. Does this mean they give a great advantage no. Do they help some people who have issues with IDing people classes fast in pvp yes. My whole point is why are they here if this is the only purpose. It was a question? It was not a rant nor a QQ. I had hoped that there was some purpose I was missing.

 

 

When another poster stated the reason was in-effect to counteract a players ability to disquise their class and or function which is in effect what i was saying to start with althouhg no so artfully as he did you agreed

 

"This was exactly there reason to adding the advanced class icons above players heads. I see no issues with this feature once so ever. "

 

It seems it is just your second sentence that is the casue for your posts. You agree with why it is ingame you agree with how this effects pvp you just like its effects while I do not.

 

P.S. Since you mentioned your played EQ. If you recall way back in the day ( 3rd xp as i did not play it after that so can not speak on how it might have changed) the common practice on the Zek servers was for a group before they went out to hunt for pvp was to find an enchanter if they could to enchant them so that the opposing factions could not tell what race and or class they were. Since whatever race they were enchanted to would show them just in the ( now called naked) starter outfits they were born with ( ie what a toon had one when it first spawned into the world). Yes once you started to cast or melee people could figure it out but in the heat of battle things get missed.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Baaddare

[Baaddare]

I'd guess it would be to balance out the fact that with the new custom gear many may go out of their way to disguise what they are.

 

If I'm defending a node on my powertech but am wearing juggernaught heavy armor, without my weapons out I could be a juggernaught, a powertech or a merc all capable of wearing said heavy armor.

 

And then of course if they bring in heavy and medium versions of the social armor. What class is that guy standing there in a sand people outfit... it could be any of 8 possible ones!

 

yes this could be the reason it was added. Myself I am for being able to disquise yourself if you can others may not be for this. Perhaps it is the fact that I have played a few pvp centric games and come from that background while others have not that I view any advantage no matter how small as something not easily given away. Does not mean one way is right or wrong just a different outlook Now if BW says well instead of making heavy and medium social gear at this time we are going to have light social scale properly and to address the pvp imbalance this could cause I could accept that. I would not like it but I could accept that. Which would be a way of lookign at it I had not. Thank you.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Baaddare

[Badlander]

I would tend to agree with this which is why i wonder what the intent is in having it in the first place as all it seemed to do was to make it easier to id the other side.

 

I would say the intent was to make it easier for the bad players, but bad players will be bad no matter what.

[Baaddare]

I would say the intent was to make it easier for the bad players, but bad players will be bad no matter what.

 

This is true as it is still hard even on the test server with this already in effect to get people to kill the healers first.

[Neamhan]

I'd guess it would be to balance out the fact that with the new custom gear many may go out of their way to disguise what they are.

 

If I'm defending a node on my powertech but am wearing juggernaught heavy armor, without my weapons out I could be a juggernaught, a powertech or a merc all capable of wearing said heavy armor.

 

And then of course if they bring in heavy and medium versions of the social armor. What class is that guy standing there in a sand people outfit... it could be any of 8 possible ones!

 

Or I could just target you and it'll say what AC you are when I mouse over the little head shot of your guy anyway.

[DaedalusV]

My server isn't a PvP server, so the PvP crowd is relatively small. I find that if you PvP alot, you start to identify priority targets just by name. In my experience, I get targeted solely on the grounds that people know my name and know I heal stuff. And I usually (if ops leader/given the ability to mark targets) mark anyone I recognize from earlier battles (whom I know will be priority targets solely on the grounds that the guy is a good PvP'er/healer)

[Ironcleaver]

I'm really not sure if the icons were really needed..

 

It's pretty simple, kill the guy in a dress with the double-glow-stick.

 

Seriously though - the class armor is pretty icon as it is.. If anything a few people will mix it up when 1.2 hits.. but still not really an issue. Just go for the guy standing back from the front line barly moving but always casting.

[djluxi]

Notice a trend here. These statements all support my contention that their only purpose is to make it easier to ID peoples AC. Does this mean they give a great advantage no. Do they help some people who have issues with IDing people classes fast in pvp yes. My whole point is why are they here if this is the only purpose. It was a question? It was not a rant nor a QQ. I had hoped that there was some purpose I was missing.

 

 

Hope he is trolling cause this is kind of a rethorical question. Like saying... does this bread feed u, will it help some starving folks... yes. Why is it on the table then? Why.. to help ppl, isnt that reason enough?! U may not like it cause u r so uber pro/smart that u can learn by heart what weapon is used by what class, but if a feature helps ppl then it is doing its purpose and doesnt need any other. And at the end of the day, with every class beeing able to play different roles its still gonna boil down to who is good and who is bad. Seeing a sage/soec doesnt mean he is a healer... it is still gonna take some more knowledge to tell that.

Edited March 29, 2012 by djluxi

[MightyHalo]

Great move. I don't like wasting time finding the healers so this is a great addition.

[Irishbrewed]

Deleted Edited April 1, 2012 by Irishbrewed

[Irishbrewed]

Great move. I don't like wasting time finding the healers so this is a great addition.

 

Bah! U ppl infest this game.

 

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