Why were Sorcerers ever considered OP?

[Ortof]

I know exactly what he is referring to, however extricate requires an ally to use on, and doesn't help the sorc at all, so is more in the class of a heal or guard as it has no effect on the enemy.

 

If I am DPSing said Sorc and they get grappled to another level where I cannot hit them or even chase them how does that not affect me? Look, I get what you are saying, ya it's in a different class than a CC, however, don't down play it either. Completely removing someone from combat to another level is beyond useful and furthermore has won more matches than anything else in Hutball (probably an exaggeration, but none the less it has won a lot of games, it and it alone).

 

So it helps a friendly, though does it mitigate damage? Nope. Does it lessen the damage? Nope. Does it in fact completely remove the ball carrier from being attacked? Yep. Does winning help the grappling Sorc? Yep.

 

Not for or against you personally, but skewing the facts and/or downplaying an ability threw semantics isn't a good leg to stand on in a debate.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Ortof

[Guioki]

Well, in the post that you quoted again, there are parentheses pointing out exactly how Force Speed can be used in order to CC someone, which I can only assume you either missed or didn't bother to read (again).

 

I'd also love for you to find any place where I have ever called a Sorc OP, for any reason whatsoever. I'm just telling it like it is.

 

Hybrid Sorcs have more CC options at one time than any other class, and then also bring a lot of utility on their own. In exchange for this, they had only "okay" single-target damage and very good AoE ability.

 

In 1.2, they will have mediocre AoE ability, "okay" single-target damage, and less CC options at one time than a lot of classes. But they'll still have Force Sprint, Bubble, and Extricate, so people will still call them OP.

 

After all, it sure wasn't their amazing single target damage that (intelligent) people complained about.

 

Oh I read what you wrote about force speed, but it isnt CC in itself, would be like saying that meelee CC doesnt count as CC at all because it cant always be applied. Or calling stealth CC instead of "Utility"

 

Other then that my comment about people calling sorcs was addressed to the thread, not as a reply to your post. I noticed you aren't calling sorcs OP.

 

All I'm saying is that sorcs don't really have more CC or utility then any other class, all classes have similar amounts, but there are some things they do better and a lot they do worse.

[Ortof]

Oh I read what you wrote about force speed, but it isnt CC in itself, would be like saying that meelee CC doesnt count as CC at all because it cant always be applied. Or calling stealth CC instead of "Utility"

 

Other then that my comment about people calling sorcs was addressed to the thread, not as a reply to your post. I noticed you aren't calling sorcs OP.

 

All I'm saying is that sorcs don't really have more CC or utility then any other class, all classes have similar amounts, but there are some things they do better and a lot they do worse.

 

Again, I play a pyro Merc BH. I listed what I have, how in the hell is that even remotely close to what you have?

 

EDIT: Anyway, I'm done in this. People want abilities listed and then say, well those are just abilities. People say, well a Sorc topping damage meters while being second (100k+) in heals doesn't matter, but we all know that tying people up in WZ's matter especially when you are making them wait in the spawning area. You guys have it very, very good right now despite what you think. Compared to some classes you are beyond and to others not so much.

 

But to down play what is in your utility box makes me shake my head. Have fun in La La land guys. I'm off to PVP.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Ortof

[biowareftw]

You act like it procs in half a channel every single time you cast it. It doesn't.

 

And you still can't seem to get it through your head that I play a Powertech, even though we've been over this countless times by now. I've even mentioned it in this thread, on the very page that you quoted me, lol.

 

We all know you never beta'd anything and probably never even got to 50 on your Sorc, as you have been called out so many times on your lack of knowledge about the class.

 

It's okay that you can't beat one of the worst 1v1 classes in the game, but it's definitely not because they are OP.

 

Actually I would slap you around with just about any class 1 v 1 in this game. Just be glad they don't have instant 50's on the test forum. I would fraps it, just to show how full of it you are.

 

BTW your "powertech main" (*cough your alt*) is also being nerfed.

 

What do you want to know about sorc/sage? I tested every freakin spec on beta. Full balance/madness was STILL exceptionally strong, full lightning/tk was an aoe/pve spec but would be ok in voidstar (dual spec), the heal spec was just STUPIDLY OP due to a bug.

 

Actually I probably know more about vanguard/PT then you as well. But whatever. Another really challenging class. Throw nade, railshot, hit 1 if in melee range (can grip to you) spam 2 till railshot resets. Hit railshot.

 

Do you only play ez mode classes? No wonder you are so ticked off. Haven't you learned anything in MMO's? Faceroll class plus OP =nerfs. See Ret paladin and arcane mage.

 

Have fun with 1.2! It probably sent your world crashing down. Have fun getting your butt handed to you on your marauder alt. I love killing 3 of you at the same time on my sentinel!

 

BTW I never called for nerfs on PT/Vanguard. Why? Cus railshot/high impact bolt is a RANGED attack. Accuracy debuff makes you useless. I slaughter kids like you lol.

 

LOL at you thinking this game is based or balanced around 1 v 1. I can bend my sentinel over on a slinger/sniper while barely taking any dmg. Does that make them OP? No lol. Enjoy your nerfs.

[Ryotknife]

They have good group utility, are good at running the ball/assisting the ball carrier in Huttball, and can heal.

 

That's about all I've got. 1v1's were a joke, my Tankassin, Marauder, and PT Pyro could smoke them without a second thought. They had no burst and their best ability (Force Lightning) was channeled, so it was interrupt city on that.

 

you just answered the question.

 

1v1 is meaningless unless you are a stealther who is trying to ninja a node.

 

sorcs are literally mandatory for huttball, which ever teams has more assassins and sorcs will generally win. civil war and voidstar, their ability to dps from range, their ability to run away when targeted, and their ability to create opportunities for caps or stop caps is effective. not overpowered, but effective.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Guioki]

If I am DPSing said Sorc and they get grappled to another level where I cannot hit them or even chase them how does that not affect me? Look, I get what you are saying, ya it's in a different class than a CC, however, don't down play it either. Completely removing someone from combat to another level is beyond useful and furthermore has won more matches than anything else in Hutball (probably an exaggeration, but none the less it has won a lot of games, it and it alone).

 

So it helps a friendly, though does it mitigate damage? Nope. Does it lessen the damage? Nope. Does it in fact completely remove the ball carrier from being attacked? Yep. Does winning help the grappling Sorc? Yep.

 

Not for or against you personally, but skewing the facts and/or downplaying an ability threw semantics isn't a good leg to stand on in a debate.

 

I still don't think you quite get what I'm saying. I do understand your point of view, but removing someone from damage is still not CC, it is utility.

 

You are DPSing said sorc... and ANOTHER char comes along and pulls him away then that is like saying that my 2 sorcs have more utility then your 1 ptech, which could be true, but isnt the point of this at all.

 

So I'm fighting said sorc... and along comes my jugg friend and smash crits him for 5k removing him from battle entirely, smash is now a CC?

[Didy_Kush]

Most dont even stay in a 1v1 fight bubble > stun > force speed > heal

[Stovokor]

Game is not balanced around 1 on 1

 

• Current - A group of 4 to 5 geared Cross - Healing sorcerer's pretty much require coordinated counters in warzone like Voidstar. It could be a pug group but they over-perform based on the hybrid spec alone. In other composition the sorc's are baseline. Good players are good and bad players are bad.
   
  
• Early game overreaction - Sorc's peaked early so they were stronger compared to many classes when early population hit 50. But player's with experience from other PvP games already mentioned back then that the melee classes which scale best will pull ahead. Initially it was only the exceptional players then it became true for majority of the class ( example Sentinel )
   
  
• So much more Huttball utility compared to many classes
  

 

Edited March 28, 2012 by Stovokor

[Ortof]

I still don't think you quite get what I'm saying. I do understand your point of view, but removing someone from damage is still not CC, it is utility.

 

You are DPSing said sorc... and ANOTHER char comes along and pulls him away then that is like saying that my 2 sorcs have more utility then your 1 ptech, which could be true, but isnt the point of this at all.

 

So I'm fighting said sorc... and along comes my jugg friend and smash crits him for 5k removing him from battle entirely, smash is now a CC?

 

And the main complaint is that you guys have too much CC A N D Utility. But like I said, I'm done with this conversation. You guys clearly think that the grass is a lot greener on a none Sorc's end. So please, spare me the "well I do have grapple and can completely remove someone from taking damage, but so can the rest of my team so long as they kill other people, so now killing is a CC?"

 

I never called it a CC by the way. You are still hung up on the other guy. But hey, again, say what you want. People and even yourself know that if there is a decent amount of CC with a decent amount of utility that something usually has to give considering the damage and healing output.

 

But hey, to each their own. Im off.

[Guioki]

Again, I play a pyro Merc BH. I listed what I have, how in the hell is that even remotely close to what you have?

 

EDIT: Anyway, I'm done in this. People want abilities listed and then say, well those are just abilities. People say, well a Sorc topping damage meters while being second (100k+) in heals doesn't matter, but we all know that tying people up in WZ's matter especially when you are making them wait in the spawning area. You guys have it very, very good right now despite what you think. Compared to some classes you are beyond and to others not so much.

 

But to down play what is in your utility box makes me shake my head. Have fun in La La land guys. I'm off to PVP.

 

Wait what? Did I even quote you on this post? I have been comparing Powertech shield tree to sorcs maximum CC hybrid. Both classes I play.

 

I honestly don't care if you specced into a spec with no utility at all. I only care when people say a sorc has so much more cc and utility then any other class that they are OP, which is ridiculous.

[biowareftw]

you just answered the question.

 

1v1 is meaningless unless you are a stealther who is trying to ninja a node.

 

Actually 1 v1 is meaningless because all classes have hardcounters except a tank sin/shadow who beats everything.

 

Op/scoundrel beats everything except sins/shadows (all specs).

 

Sent/marauders beat hybrids minus tank sin/shadow.

 

Slinger/sniper beats jk/sw senseless.

 

Stealth craps on slinger/sniper. With LOS so does sorc/sage.

 

Hybrids have stupidly easy dps cycles and excel in group combat due to utility but are not 1 v 1 classes with the exception of sin/shadow.

 

The problem? The hybrid spec had two additional CC's that could be specced, were both AUTOMATIC and it had a aoe rotation that was also good as single target dmg. In addition it skipped having manage a resource (something other hybrids have to do), which allowed the class to also be the only off healer in the game worth a damn (no dispel on shields = instant heal).

 

BTW sage/sorc isn't that bad a 1 v 1 class. Commando/Merc is MUCH worse in every single way. No interrupt and much easier to shut down. You can easily kite around melee until help arrives even if they are exceptional players. The ones who aren't exceptional are VERY beatable as a sorc/sage.

Edited March 28, 2012 by biowareftw

[Karandor]

They have good group utility, are good at running the ball/assisting the ball carrier in Huttball, and can heal.

 

That's about all I've got. 1v1's were a joke, my Tankassin, Marauder, and PT Pyro could smoke them without a second thought. They had no burst and their best ability (Force Lightning) was channeled, so it was interrupt city on that.

 

The funny part about this is you list the 3 best 1v1 classes in the game.

 

 

I agree though, they aren't really OP, but I'm still glad healing is being toned down.

 

 

Scoundrel healers gonna be a PAIN in 1.2 though.

[Caelrie]

A better question is, why are you such crybabies. Blizzard famously said a mage keyboard has all Q's on it, due to them being the biggest babies in that game.

I'd bet the farm you played a warrior in WoW.

 

The funny part about this is you list the 3 best 1v1 classes in the game.

 

I agree though, they aren't really OP, but I'm still glad healing is being toned down.

 

Scoundrel healers gonna be a PAIN in 1.2 though.

 

Not really. Maras always shut them down easy as pie, and they got buffed in 1.2.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Caelrie

[Ryotknife]

I'd bet the farm you played a warrior in WoW.

 

 

 

Not really. Maras always shut them down easy as pie, and they got buffed in 1.2.

 

hey now, rogues hated (frost) mages just as much.

[Guioki]

This is getting stupid, for the record I play a Madness specced sorc because the CC ones are **** at 1v1 and I que in pugs, and healing people who do 50k damage is just dumb. I also play an Iron fist spec powertech, who can run in to a group of 5 enemies and reduce all of their damage by almost 50%, then just jump away to another enemy when I need to escape.

 

My sorc has been a BM for ages, my powertech isn't BM yet but still holds his own and can make a huge difference in group fights, dont need expertise to taunt.

 

Sorcs are good at some things, but by no means are they OP.

[Altruismo]

I still don't think you quite get what I'm saying. I do understand your point of view, but removing someone from damage is still not CC, it is utility.

 

You are DPSing said sorc... and ANOTHER char comes along and pulls him away then that is like saying that my 2 sorcs have more utility then your 1 ptech, which could be true, but isnt the point of this at all.

 

So I'm fighting said sorc... and along comes my jugg friend and smash crits him for 5k removing him from battle entirely, smash is now a CC?

 

Or you could try to compare Extrication to another actual CC?.

 

You and all your buddies are DPSing the Sorc and clumped around him like a bunch of crazed fleas, his Sniper friend runs into the middle of you all and drops into cover and cover pulses you all away from the sorc and off the ledge.

You have been separated from the Sorc by a CC ability, and he runs off to score.

 

OR

 

You and all your buddies are DPSing the Sorc and clumped around him like a bunch of crazed fleas, his Sorc friend stands 30m away and casts Extrication, pulling the Sorc away from all of you.

You have been separated from the Sorc by a CC ability, and he runs off to score.

 

Can you maybe see why Extrication is a CC ability? It makes more space between the goody and countless baddies when you cast it.

[biowareftw]

hey now, rogues hated (frost) mages just as much.

 

Actually I had a frost mage as well. That class required timing, hardcasting, risked spell tree lock out, had combos, risked spellsteal/purge/dispel, couldn't heal/bubble other people.

 

All things sage/sorc don't have to worry about...

 

To be honest anyone who has played a sage/sorc and WoW likens the class to a vanilla shadow priest when noone had a gaming mouse. The only difference is all your crap is instant cast, the skill cap needed is lower and you don't have to shift in and out of shadow form to heal/dps.

 

Sage/sorc is like a class made so little kids can compete in MMO's. No wonder there is so much crying...

[Varicite]

Actually I would slap you around with just about any class 1 v 1 in this game. Just be glad they don't have instant 50's on the test forum. I would fraps it, just to show how full of it you are.

 

BTW your "powertech main" (*cough your alt*) is also being nerfed.

 

What do you want to know about sorc/sage? I tested every freakin spec on beta. Full balance/madness was STILL exceptionally strong, full lightning/tk was an aoe/pve spec but would be ok in voidstar (dual spec), the heal spec was just STUPIDLY OP due to a bug.

 

Actually I probably know more about vanguard/PT then you as well. But whatever. Another really challenging class. Throw nade, railshot, hit 1 if in melee range (can grip to you) spam 2 till railshot resets. Hit railshot.

 

Do you only play ez mode classes? No wonder you are so ticked off. Haven't you learned anything in MMO's? Faceroll class plus OP =nerfs. See Ret paladin and arcane mage.

 

Have fun with 1.2! It probably sent your world crashing down. Have fun getting your butt handed to you on your marauder alt. I love killing 3 of you at the same time on my sentinel!

 

BTW I never called for nerfs on PT/Vanguard. Why? Cus railshot/high impact bolt is a RANGED attack. Accuracy debuff makes you useless. I slaughter kids like you lol.

 

LOL at you thinking this game is based or balanced around 1 v 1. I can bend my sentinel over on a slinger/sniper while barely taking any dmg. Does that make them OP? No lol. Enjoy your nerfs.

 

I actually play EVERY class in this game except for the Agent ACs, which I just haven't had time to get to yet. I hear it's the best story, so I saved it for last. Not all of them are 50, but will be shortly. I do this so that I can understand the classes I encounter most in PvP, and know what to do against them.

 

So I'm not actually very particular toward any of them, I just like to call them as I see them. Currently, I'm having fun on my Marauder, Assassin, and obviously I still play my PT. I can tell you right now that out of all of the classes that I've played, there is no such thing as a challenging class in this game.

 

With that said, I think your little internet show of bravado would backfire pretty hilariously, but obviously there's no way to prove that, which is exactly why you said it.

[Ryotknife]

This is getting stupid, for the record I play a Madness specced sorc because the CC ones are **** at 1v1 and I que in pugs, and healing people who do 50k damage is just dumb. I also play an Iron fist spec powertech, who can run in to a group of 5 enemies and reduce all of their damage by almost 50%, then just jump away to another enemy when I need to escape.

 

My sorc has been a BM for ages, my powertech isn't BM yet but still holds his own and can make a huge difference in group fights, dont need expertise to taunt.

 

Sorcs are good at some things, but by no means are they OP.

 

....either you added an extra 0 to that 50% or for some reason you are running into a pack of enemies to use an aoe RANGED taunt which is not a good idea because a single aoe from those individuals will render your taunt moot.

[biowareftw]

I actually play EVERY class in this game except for the Agent ACs, which I just haven't had time to get to yet. I hear it's the best story, so I saved it for last. Not all of them are 50, but will be shortly. I do this so that I can understand the classes I encounter most in PvP, and know what to do against them.

 

So I'm not actually very particular toward any of them, I just like to call them as I see them. Currently, I'm having fun on my Marauder, Assassin, and obviously I still play my PT. I can tell you right now that out of all of the classes that I've played, there is no such thing as a challenging class in this game.

 

With that said, I think your little internet show of bravado would backfire pretty hilariously, but obviously there's no way to prove that, which is exactly why you said it.

 

Please link your login screen. Why?

 

Cus we all know you are full of it.

[Guioki]

Or you could try to compare Extrication to another actual CC?.

 

You and all your buddies are DPSing the Sorc and clumped around him like a bunch of crazed fleas, his Sniper friend runs into the middle of you all and drops into cover and cover pulses you all away from the sorc and off the ledge.

You have been separated from the Sorc by a CC ability, and he runs off to score.

 

OR

 

You and all your buddies are DPSing the Sorc and clumped around him like a bunch of crazed fleas, his Sorc friend stands 30m away and casts Extrication, pulling the Sorc away from all of you.

You have been separated from the Sorc by a CC ability, and he runs off to score.

 

Can you maybe see why Extrication is a CC ability? It makes more space between the goody and countless baddies when you cast it.

 

Or... how about you and your buddies are dpsing a sorc, and his merc friend comes along and heals him as he casually runs along and scores... healing is now a CC ability.

 

Or you could look at it this way, sorc is dpsing you... you stun him for 4 seconds stopping him from dealing damage... CC

 

vs sorc is dpsing you, his friend comes along and extricates him away, stopping his damage... Counter CC?

 

OR you could even go further, saying you are dpsing sorc, another sorc comes along and extricates him away to a location that actually has 5 operatives waiting and they stun and **** the hell out of them both, meaning extricate has a negative effect on him...

 

Seriously clutching

[Caelrie]

hey now, rogues hated (frost) mages just as much.

 

But it was always warriors who were excessive crybabies about it.

[Varicite]

Please link your login screen. Why?

 

Cus we all know you are full of it.

 

It's that hard for you to fathom that over almost 4 months, I've played w/ 6 ACs and leveled 2 of them to BM?

 

Is this game that hard to play for you? <.<

[Guioki]

....either you added an extra 0 to that 50% or for some reason you are running into a pack of enemies to use an aoe RANGED taunt which is not a good idea because a single aoe from those individuals will render your taunt moot.

 

Or mr nitpicker I am talking about my 4% aoe MEELEE ranged damage recution, my aoe centralised around myself 20% accuracy reduction and my aoe around myself 2.5 second (3 with gear) stun, and my meelee ranged interrupt. Which is on top of my 2 ranged taunts.

[Caelrie]

Actually I had a frost mage as well. That class required timing, hardcasting, risked spell tree lock out, had combos, risked spellsteal/purge/dispel, couldn't heal/bubble other people.

 

All things sage/sorc don't have to worry about...

 

To be honest anyone who has played a sage/sorc and WoW likens the class to a vanilla shadow priest when noone had a gaming mouse. The only difference is all your crap is instant cast, the skill cap needed is lower and you don't have to shift in and out of shadow form to heal/dps.

 

Sage/sorc is like a class made so little kids can compete in MMO's. No wonder there is so much crying...

 

Only bad players think the number of buttons makes a class hard. One of the hardest classes to play in WoW PVP was an arcane mage, which used fewer buttons than almost any other.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Caelrie