jitsuo Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 They have good group utility, are good at running the ball/assisting the ball carrier in Huttball, and can heal. That's about all I've got. 1v1's were a joke, my Tankassin, Marauder, and PT Pyro could smoke them without a second thought. They had no burst and their best ability (Force Lightning) was channeled, so it was interrupt city on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Lots of people played them, bads started the QQ train and everyone got on early. They can also get big numbers in WZ scoreboards which is how the bad (AKA- 99% of the players here) and apparantly BW judge 'OPness' in the game. No different from hunters- lots of people play them, yet they've been the lowest rep class for over 4 years straight in all arena brackets above 2200, and they're terribly easy to shut down in pvp. But, lots of people play them, and unchecked they can do a lot of damage so people assume they do too much damage- and nerf nerf nerf. You'll never see them buffed because BW doesn't really care about top players who know how to tie up annoying classes like mercs and sorcs- or how easy it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 i dont think they were OP. then again, that seems to be the minority opinion. HOWEVER, i had a huge problem with the fact that Bioware did not quickly patch the bug that allowed whatever proc it is to reduce cast times by 1s on certain abilities to be used twice. this resulted in sorcs/consulars being able to heal for more than intended, and do more damage than intended. consulars using this bug can just completely flatten you with the pebbling throwing skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyoMamoru Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) 1) They operated very well with little gear, while Melee requires you to have T2/T3 gear. 2) Near unlimited Force in Heal and DPS spec. [broke HM Operative Difficulty completely, and makes quagmires occur constantly in Voidstar/Alderran.] 3) Vast sums of CC on generous cool downs. 4) AoE Knockback + Root. [Add in Force Speed, and you're 40+ meters away before they're free.] 5) Force Speed. 6) Ranged, high damage, basic attack with 50% slow. 7) 30 meter cast breaker. 8) 2.5-3.5k damage bubble regardless of spec. 9) Mez on Bubble breaking. 10) Ally Pull which cannot be overstated how amazing it is in Huttball. 11) Other minor utilities such as increased armor/speed when bubbled, having the best class buff in the game, and so forth. 12) Their hard counter class was nerfed every patch, and is the least played class. [Operative/Smuggler.] 13) They had numerous glitches which allowed them to double proc huge heals with low cost/cast times. 14) The game in PVE hates melee dps due to various mechanics which prevent them from having any level of sustained DPS. Since it wasn't clear, this isn't saying that all Sorcerers have these abilities, but rather a list of the various reasons they were considered OP. Edited March 27, 2012 by KyoMamoru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntoniusDelitan Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 1) They operated very well with little gear, while Melee requires you to have T2/T3 gear. 2) Near unlimited Force in Heal and DPS spec. [broke HM Operative Difficulty completely, and makes quagmires occur constantly in Voidstar/Alderran.] 3) Vast sums of CC on generous cool downs. 4) AoE Knockback + root. 5) Force Speed. 6) Ranged, high damage, basic attack with 50% slow. 7) 30 meter cast breaker. 8) 2.5-3.5k damage bubble regardless of spec. 9) Mez on Bubble breaking. 10) Ally Pull which cannot be overstated how amazing it is in Huttball. 11) Other minor utilities such as increased armor/speed when bubbled, having the best class buff in the game, and so forth. 12) Their hard counter class was nerfed every patch, and is the least played class. [Operative/Smuggler.] 13) They had numerous glitches which allowed them to double proc huge heals with low cost/cast times. 14) The game in PVE hates melee dps due to various mechanics which prevent them from having any level of sustained DPS. Why don't I make a list of every classes abilities, and count their skills twice or thrice in a list of "why they're overpowered," pretend they have 31/31/31 spec, and demand a nerf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitsuo Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) 1) They operated very well with little gear, while Melee requires you to have T2/T3 gear. 2) Near unlimited Force in Heal and DPS spec. [broke HM Operative Difficulty completely, and makes quagmires occur constantly in Voidstar/Alderran.] 3) Vast sums of CC on generous cool downs. 4) AoE Knockback + root. 5) Force Speed. 6) Ranged, high damage, basic attack with 50% slow. 7) 30 meter cast breaker. 8) 2.5-3.5k damage bubble regardless of spec. 9) Mez on Bubble breaking. 10) Ally Pull which cannot be overstated how amazing it is in Huttball. 11) Other minor utilities such as increased armor/speed when bubbled, having the best class buff in the game, and so forth. 12) Their hard counter class was nerfed every patch, and is the least played class. [Operative/Smuggler.] 13) They had numerous glitches which allowed them to double proc huge heals with low cost/cast times. 14) The game in PVE hates melee dps due to various mechanics which prevent them from having any level of sustained DPS. I don't see OP-ness, I see utility this class has. Other classes have different kinds of utility I do agree about the high scoreboard numbers though. There's a BM Sorcerer on my server who is one of the EASIEST enemies to kill because, once Force Lightning is interrupted, he sits there and waits until it is up again to re-start casting, but he always leads his team in damage. Edited March 27, 2012 by jitsuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyoMamoru Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I'm merely stating the various reasons. Obviously, it's impossible to have most of those abilities, yet for players it's near impossible for them to tell the difference from one Sorc to another. I'm not saying, "This is the case for every Sorcerer," merely different reasons that would cause them to be considered OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) This is easy. When the game first came out, people rushed to play the classes that they liked. Then they got high enough level to hit Warzones. Sorcerers are extremely powerful at low levels, because they get a lot of their abilities baseline (Inquisitor) early, and then taper off toward 50. They start out strong and become "okay" at endgame. Classes like Marauder and Assassin are not only very gear-dependent, but receive the bulk of their class-defining skills in the elder game, so they feel weak in lowbie warzones. Extremely weak before 20ish, as opposed to a class like Sorc that has snares, stuns, mezes, sprint, and most of their damage abilities at 20. These classes don't truly shine until you're not only 50, but well-geared; something that took at least a month and half to accomplish back then. Take all of this into account, and then add in all of these people struggling and getting owned by Sorcs who have all their tools at their disposal, and then coming here to the forums to cry about how OP Sorcs are and how UP Marauders/Sins are, and then the people who come to look for advice on how to play see these posts and now assume it's not that they need to learn how to play the game, but that Sorcs actually are OP and it's not them at all. Not the case for everybody, but I'd say this is probably how the "Sorcs are OP" and "Maras are gimp" arguments started. Edited March 27, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xMercx Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Because they melted face's with very little effort to think otherwise is just silly. If you can't adapt an play well after 1.2 you were never meant to be a sorc/sage. It will be interesting to see the decline in sorc/sage because they will no longer have the " I win button" Edited March 27, 2012 by xMercx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntoniusDelitan Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Because they melted face's with very little effort to think otherwise is just silly. If you can't adapt an play well after 1.2 you were never meant to be a sorc/sage. It will be interesting to see the decline in sorc/sage because they will no longer have the " I win button" Sorcs/Sages have gravround/tracermissle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitsuo Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 Sorcs/Sages have gravround/tracermissle? I like to think of that as the ILOSE button. Even when I only had half purples half custom gear, I could take out (bad) TM/Grav spammers no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Sorcs/Sages have gravround/tracermissle? And you just nailed the other false stereotype that grew up along w/ Sorc. Because let's be honest, Tracer/Grav Merc/Commandos are the easiest thing in this game to solo, hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derian Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 This is easy. When the game first came out, people rushed to play the classes that they liked. Then they got high enough level to hit Warzones. Sorcerers are extremely powerful at low levels, because they get a lot of their abilities baseline (Inquisitor) early, and then taper off toward 50. They start out strong and become "okay" at endgame. Classes like Marauder and Assassin are not only very gear-dependent, but receive the bulk of their class-defining skills in the elder game, so they feel weak in lowbie warzones. Extremely weak before 20ish, as opposed to a class like Sorc that has snares, stuns, mezes, sprint, and most of their damage abilities at 20. These classes don't truly shine until you're not only 50, but well-geared; something that took at least a month and half to accomplish back then. Take all of this into account, and then add in all of these people struggling and getting owned by Sorcs who have all their tools at their disposal, and then coming here to the forums to cry about how OP Sorcs are and how UP Marauders/Sins are, and then the people who come to look for advice on how to play see these posts and now assume it's not that they need to learn how to play the game, but that Sorcs actually are OP and it's not them at all. Not the case for everybody, but I'd say this is probably how the "Sorcs are OP" and "Maras are gimp" arguments started. 100%. People are terrible, and have massive egos. These egos caused them to make others bleieve what they said is the gospel. Their gospel was that Sorc/Sage was OP and melee classes were UP. Obviously their gospel is ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawaiianlion Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 They are really good in the lowbie bracket but at 50 with everyone in BM gear they really only shine at huttball. Still confuses the hell of of me why i see so many dps sorcs in the 50 bracket when the heal spec is 10x better, and their damage is easily cleansed/healed through. You can zerg a pyrotech or a sent and they will still rip someones face off, zerg a sorc and his damage goes to **** and they drop in seconds. Like all ranged classes they can rack up a lot of numbers when left alone to freecast but they wont be killing anything that has a healer behind it. Force speed, knockback and bubble make them them a decent solo q class which is why you see so many. In rateds, i can only think of maybe 2 exceptional dps sorcs on my server i would actually play rateds with. They would be the absolute worst class if there was an arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyoMamoru Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Solo, yes. However, when you have them being at least semi-intelligent, to the extent of staying up high on narrow catwalks so they can knock people away, it becomes a tad more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divineye Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 case in point in video form of why they are OP. http://swtormovies.com/movieview.php?id=3047 say Im a level 50 guardian, I get pissed off at all the trooper grav round spamming and reroll a trooper with the "cant beat em join em strat" then you run into this guy in the level 1-49 bracket and your like... i quit. before you quit you make this giant rant about how OP everything is while all the content players are quiet, playing the game. Bioware looks at these post and acts, then all the real players get mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSair Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 It was a imaginary imbalance created by the surplus of Sages/Sorcs and the very real imbalance of Expertise gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xMercx Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Sorcs/Sages have gravround/tracermissle? Graveround/tracer= I win haha there very easy to beat if there spamming once you interrupt most of the time they just sit there waiting for it to be of cd lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 They have good group utility, are good at running the ball/assisting the ball carrier in Huttball, and can heal. That's about all I've got. 1v1's were a joke, my Tankassin, Marauder, and PT Pyro could smoke them without a second thought. They had no burst and their best ability (Force Lightning) was channeled, so it was interrupt city on that. This Sorc. says PFFT. Don't care, I'll never back down if challenged. I love this class, always will. 1st choice & most rolled for good reasons, we're fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Solo, yes. However, when you have them being at least semi-intelligent, to the extent of staying up high on narrow catwalks so they can knock people away, it becomes a tad more difficult. One semi-intelligent Shadow/Assassin can prevent this. It's pretty fun. : ) 1 semi-intelligent Shadow/Assassin and ANY other stealth class, and you can bypass the catwalks altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaar Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Sorcs are not OP, they are just incredibly annoying. That and they are so easy to play, they are a complete faceroll class and Force Lighting spam is the same as Tracer Spamming, require's zero skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Sorcs are not OP, they are just incredibly annoying. That and they are so easy to play, they are a complete faceroll class and Force Lighting spam is the same as Tracer Spamming, require's zero skill. Skill? Pretty sure hitting the skill to make my DS JK slash will be just as easy. Edited March 27, 2012 by Darth_Solrac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyoMamoru Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 One semi-intelligent Shadow/Assassin can prevent this. It's pretty fun. : ) 1 semi-intelligent Shadow/Assassin and ANY other stealth class, and you can bypass the catwalks altogether. Yes, there are two classes that have a pull, if they are in their tank variation. Due to that pull's cool down, it's not going to be wasted on generic DPSer of the opposing team. That's either going to be used on a healer attached to a tank, or the ball carrier. Stealth isn't always viable, mostly due to the fact that positional lag can place your opponent within five meters of where they are on your screen. While you may believe that you're walking behind them, you could very well walk right in front of their character, resulting in visibility. Also, they do have the ability to have a stealth scan going on near themselves for 10 seconds, every 20 seconds. It has a 30 meter range, and really should be placed on choke points at all times. Unfortunately, this ability isn't utilized as much as it should be. =/ As a Stealth Operative, you're not going to waste your stealth open on a BH that isn't actively attacking you, due to his damage shield and heavy armor. It usually results in the fight taking too long, especially since they can just knock you off once you open on them. I don't really see why you're trying to trivialize the strengths of the turret classes in this game. Yes, they crumble if they stand toe to toe consistently with players, but when they use the level to their advantage which requires very little effort, they become significantly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akyio Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 they werent really OP. just damage charts are ridiculous, because they are all about AoE. and the nerf.. it wasnt even that huge.. i mean telekinetics is literally untouched even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewdatbacker Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) LOL at everyone saying they weren't OP. I play a Sage, and me playing an OP class AND the fact that I'm probably the best pvp'er ever to have lived, no one ever kills me. At least with the nerfs, I might actually get down to about 50-66% health before they die Edited March 27, 2012 by Chewdatbacker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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