TwwIX Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) I am creating more threat with my Commando and Bounty Hunter than any other class i team up with. What genius came up the idea to add aggro to heals, anyway? Where's the logic in this? How does that contribute my to my fun factor? And now i hear that they are going nerf the heals in addition to this idiotic gameplay mechanic I mean, what's the point in rolling a healer if you're just going to continue to bombard us with these poor design decisions? Edited March 26, 2012 by TwwIX
Strifegambit Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA healing agro has been in just about every MMO that has been its just another thing for yourself to manage but moreso the tanks job lol
TwwIX Posted March 26, 2012 Author Posted March 26, 2012 LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA healing agro has been in just about every MMO that has been its just another thing for yourself to manage but moreso the tanks job lol The purpose of a healer is healing, not aggro management. That's the Tank's job. I come from City of Heroes and i never head to deal with poorly realized gameplay mechanics such as this. If i want micro management, i'll go play EVE Online aka. Spreadsheet Online.
Strifegambit Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Then go back to City of Heroes, we wont miss you.
nametakenz Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 TLDR? I dont want any kind of challenge at all i just want to cast spells
TwwIX Posted March 26, 2012 Author Posted March 26, 2012 Then go back to City of Heroes, we wont miss you. Ahh, what a lovely attitude you have. People like you are a real asset to this community.
Strifegambit Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Lol its people like you Twwix that degrade a game to the point of simplicity, might as well go play a browser game. Hahahaha Edited March 26, 2012 by Strifegambit
TwwIX Posted March 26, 2012 Author Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Lol its people like you Twwix that degrade a game to the point of simplicity, might as well go play a browser game. Hahahaha People like me? Sorry, but since when do we know each other? Seriously, if you have nothing constructive to contribute to my thread then don't bother replying at all. Please go fling your poorly worded ad hominem attacks at somebody that is willing to lower themselves to your level. Edited March 26, 2012 by TwwIX
chnima Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Almost thought you were trolling seriously. You do realize your heals only pull threat agro of a mob that hasn't been hit BY ANYTHING, healer threat is the main reason a tank needs to use any kind of aoe damage/ switch targets and hit every1 individually - as fast as possible at the beginning of the fight.. and maintaining a minumum ammount of threat on each target throughout. You either only team up with horrible players/are one yourself, or you are just QQing because you cannot put things into perspective. Either way I'm wasting 1 minute of my life even bothering writing this. Any other damage a boss does to you is a random attack to a random party member built into the mechanics of said specific boss. Edited March 26, 2012 by chnima
Strifegambit Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 HAHA alright mate ease up lol Ever thought of using your threat reduction skill, i wonder ?
TwwIX Posted March 26, 2012 Author Posted March 26, 2012 Almost thought you were trolling seriously. You do realize your heals only pull threat agro of a mob that hasn't been hit BY ANYTHING, healer threat is the main reason a tank needs to use any kind of aoe damage/ switch targets and hit every1 individually - as fast as possible at the beginning of the fight.. and maintaining a minumum ammount of threat on each target throughout. You either only team up with horrible players/are one yourself, or you are just QQing because you cannot put things into perspective. Either way I'm wasting 1 minute of my life even bothering writing this. Any other damage a boss does to you is a random attack to a random party member built into the mechanics of said specific boss. Yes, everybody is automatically a troll and a whiner that questions and criticizes certain aspects of this game. Put what exactly into perspective? Please, do elaborate. So, if two Tanks are incapable of holding the aggro, that is somehow the Healer's fault? Has it ever crossed your mind that the fault may lie within the threat generation in this game and not the actual players? Please explain to me why and how a healer is capable of generating more aggro than two Tanks combined?
ssfish Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 To answer your question: Clearly, you should not roll a healer.
TwwIX Posted March 26, 2012 Author Posted March 26, 2012 To answer your question: Clearly, you should not roll a healer. Ahh, thy wisdom is unmatched! Socrates and Plato better watch out.
Battilea Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) I am creating more threat with my Commando and Bounty Hunter than any other class i team up with. What genius came up the idea to add aggro to heals, anyway? Where's the logic in this? How does that contribute my to my fun factor? And now i hear that they are going nerf the heals in addition to this idiotic gameplay mechanic I mean, what's the point in rolling a healer if you're just going to continue to bombard us with these poor design decisions? Healing threat is actually the lowest of any class, especially with the talent that reduces it. It is, however, AoE threat, going to all mobs aggroed. But even so, easily overcome by others. If you are getting chewed up routinely, that's a group failure. The DPS should be killing off the smaller things that aren't in the tank's sphere of control first and foremost. The Tank should be aggro'ing anything big and nasty. And if anything does go after you, either a DPS should reduce it to a corpse or hit it with a CC or else the tank should give it a few love taps or a taunt to get its attention. But, on the bright side, with nerfed heals, you'll heal less and that will mean you generate even less threat Put what exactly into perspective? Please, do elaborate. So, if two Tanks are incapable of holding the aggro, that is somehow the Healer's fault? Has it ever crossed your mind that the fault may lie within the threat generation in this game and not the actual players? Please explain to me why and how a healer is capable of generating more aggro than two Tanks combined? No, that's the fault of the tanks and the DPS. Keeping aggro off the healer is pretty easy. Healers generate squat for threat. Get some tanks that actually know how to play their role. Get some DPS that pay attention and will tick things that aren't supposed to be CC'd off so it is on them rather than you. Edited March 26, 2012 by Battilea
ScottHK Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Then go back to City of Heroes, we wont miss you. Even City of Heroes has aggro from heals, lol.
TwwIX Posted March 26, 2012 Author Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Even City of Heroes has aggro from heals, lol. Not they don't. ROFLMAO Debuffs and syphoning powers like Transfusion do but that's because they are direct attacks that syphon health from enemies. Powers like Healing Aura and other heals do not generate any threat whatsoever. I have been played the game for over 6 years and i have several healing/buff oriented Defenders and Controllers. So, yeah... Edited March 26, 2012 by TwwIX
hadoken Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Well apparently City of Heroes was designed differently from every other class/group based MMO made. Healing agro has been in these games since EQ (and likely earlier, don't recall really if it existed in UO). That being said, it's usually only something that's dangerous on AE pulls or something where the tank doesn't have full threat on everything on the field. If you're pulling healing agro on single pulls...get a new tank.
ScottHK Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Not they don't. ROFLMAO Debuffs and syphoning powers like Transfusion do but that's because they are direct attacks that syphon health from enemies. Powers like Healing Aura and other heals do not generate any threat whatsoever. I have been played the game for over 6 years and i have several healing/buff oriented Defenders and Controllers. So, yeah... I've been playing far longer than 6 years pal, and they do generate threat. I can even tell you why, if you really want. Rather, I can tell you how to check. Edited March 26, 2012 by ScottHK
Lindraskada Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 healing has -always- generated aggro at a lesser rate than dps possibly.. so normally if you are healing and someone else is stabbing it.. it will go for them first aggro management isnt a healers job, so it shouldnt concern you , as long as you arent being silly, ie overhealing a lot. tho i -think- it was patched so your aggro is based off "healing done" as opposed to "amount of healing you just cast" when you overheal TLDR: if youre getting a lot of aggro as a healer; get a better tank
ScottHK Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) I've been playing far longer than 6 years pal, and they do generate threat. I can even tell you why, if you really want. Rather, I can tell you how to check. Unfortunatly, I'm not going to be here to witness your challenge, so I'll post it anyway. Grab a friend or stranger, put them into the middle of a mob group, they aren't to do anything that would generate aggro, then use a healing ability on said ally. The mobs will turn and charge at you. This is evidence that healing generates aggro. If you also feel the need, I'd like to see your result in the form of a video. Edited March 26, 2012 by ScottHK
TwwIX Posted March 26, 2012 Author Posted March 26, 2012 I've been playing far longer than 6 years pal, and they do generate threat. I can even tell you why, if you really want. Rather, I can tell you how to check. No, way! More than 6 years? Man, all those Veteran Rewards you must've accumulated by now... I bet the ladies start flocking and salivating just by the mere mention of them?
FallenX Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 I am creating more threat with my Commando and Bounty Hunter than any other class i team up with. What genius came up the idea to add aggro to heals, anyway? Where's the logic in this? How does that contribute my to my fun factor? And now i hear that they are going nerf the heals in addition to this idiotic gameplay mechanic I mean, what's the point in rolling a healer if you're just going to continue to bombard us with these poor design decisions? Noticing you are getting a lot of unnecessary and unhelpful responses. Anyways on topic...Healers actually do not cause that much threat. Yes mobs will run to you if nothing has hit them. What this means is that either your tank is poor at holding aggro or your dps are not doing their job. Generally a healer will never get aggro...in a decent group. And if they do, it will not be for long. Nothing wrong with the design decisions. Just saying the problem you are experiencing is because of other players. In no way should you be having this much trouble with aggro ( not saying it is your fault). I rarely have to use a aggro dump as a healer...So rarely I sometimes forget I have it. Anyways, sorry to see all the immature responses towards you and hope this helps. Cheers
Snowblinded Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 As a healer that has been playing since day one of early release, healed all normal and hard mode instances, and is a main healer for a guild that has both ops on farm in nightmare mode... I feel I am qualified to say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the threat generation mechanic for healing in this game. Secondly, as a very experienced MMO player (spanning games such as WoW, Aion, Rift, EQ, Guild Wars, and a number of free MMOs) I feel I am also qualified to say that healing has ALWAYS generated threat in every MMO I've ever played. I never played City of Heroes so I can't speak for that one, but the idea of heals not generating threat is rather silly. At that point what is stopping a healer from sitting in the back and dumping heals on everyone without a care in the world? Healers need to manage themselves just like any other class. Tl;drEither you are doing something wrong, or your tanks are doing something wrong.
FallenX Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 As a healer that has been playing since day one of early release, healed all normal and hard mode instances, and is a main healer for a guild that has both ops on farm in nightmare mode... I feel I am qualified to say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the threat generation mechanic for healing in this game. Secondly, as a very experienced MMO player (spanning games such as WoW, Aion, Rift, EQ, Guild Wars, and a number of free MMOs) I feel I am also qualified to say that healing has ALWAYS generated threat in every MMO I've ever played. I never played City of Heroes so I can't speak for that one, but the idea of heals not generating threat is rather silly. At that point what is stopping a healer from sitting in the back and dumping heals on everyone without a care in the world? Healers need to manage themselves just like any other class. Tl;dr Either you are doing something wrong, or your tanks are doing something wrong. I agree. In no way is this a problem with threat generation in this game. But healing hm's, and nightmare...I never have to worry about aggro as a healer. It is rare that I pull aggro. I mean if I go crazy just as the tank pulls I might get some aggro..But normally those mobs are off me before I can use my aggro dump. Chances are if a tank gets stun...the boss or mob will go to a dps...before a healer..and that is the way it should be. Good dps will always cause more threat then heals in SWTOR...As it stands right now. So healers DO NOT really have to manage threat in this game.
Sotaudi Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Heals generate hate/threat because heals are beneficial actions that are detrimental to the attacking mob. It is this way in all games, even single player games with companions/pets. City of Heros heals may generate low threat compared to the amount of hate a tank can generate in that game, but I guarantee you that if you go out with a friend and let him proximity aggro a mob without doing anything else, your first heal will grab the aggro off him. I also guarantee you that if he hits that mob with his weakest attack before you heal him, then does nothing else, your first heal may not grab aggro off him, but eventually you will heal him enough for the mob to stop attacking him and attack you. That would not happen if heals generated zero threat. Part of playing a game as a non-tank is learning how to manage your own threat. As a DPS, it is your job to deal as much damage as possible without outpacing the tank's ability to maintain aggro. As a healer, it is your job to do as much healing (and supplemental damage) as possible without outpacing the tank's ability to maintain aggro. It is the tanks job to do as much damage and generate enough threat to keep the attention of the mobs off of all other players, including healers. but everyone generates hate by doing things that are detrimental to a mob, and that includes heals. All MMOs go by that same basic concept, and City of Heros will be no different. It may be easier for the tank to maintain aggro that in that game, but I guarantee you that the mechanics are there.
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