Ryotknife Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Browse the PTS forums. They added some recording tools on the PTS and some Test dummies. Theres a Scoundrel thread about the PTS on the scoundrel forum showing some numbers with both Scrapper and DF. I guess you will find it. PS: In case you didnt find it -Scoundrel (around page 7): http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=369298&page=7 -Sniper: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=380085 i found it, good read. not ideal to balance dps around, but its a fair sight better than anything else we got to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) no one says that we can't do all these things. i would guess every good operative does them. but - and that is a big BUT(t): every other class can do these things better than us. every other class has more utility, more sustained damage, more control and adds more to team- and objective-based pvp with less effort. -every class does not have more utility, more control, and adds more to the team than ops. -sustained damage ill give you, but unfortunately your burst overshadows this. -ops and assassins add the MOST to their teams in civil war and void star -ops have a high amount of control, if they didnt, THEY WOULDNT BE ABLE TO STUNLOCK PEOPLE TO DEATH (and yes they still can do this to equally geared opponents) -in huttball, the utility/what you add to your team as a whole is not very important to the huttball metagame. the reason being that stealth, burst, and the ability to assassinate while locking him down is not that important when you can achieve the same result by punting the player into the pit and removing him from the equation for 15+ seconds. but once again, you are turning a blind eye to the WZs in which ops are one of the best classes in the game as stealth is a major gamechanger in civil war and void star. Edited March 28, 2012 by Ryotknife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzone Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 -ops have a high amount of control, if they didnt, THEY WOULDNT BE ABLE TO STUNLOCK TERRIBADS TO DEATH (and yes they still can do this to equally geared TERRIBADS) Fixed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocping Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I'm a War Hero scoundrel who melts faces and the only problem I have is that KBs basically make you useless on Huttball ramps. Make the ramps wider so that only Knights/Juggs can push you off with their 1min CD skill and all is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Fixed it. please explain how someone can be terrible if their CC breaker is down and they get stunlocked to death and are unable to do anything? you can be the most skillful player to ever exist, doesnt matter if you have zero control over your character from start to finish and are unable to do anything to stop it. Edited March 28, 2012 by Ryotknife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I'm a War Hero scoundrel who melts faces and the only problem I have is that KBs basically make you useless on Huttball ramps. Make the ramps wider so that only Knights/Juggs can push you off with their 1min CD skill and all is fine. Or position yourself so you don't fall off the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalTorrak Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I did. What's your point? My Operative gets the 5k damage medal quite regularly. However that doesn't change the fact that my Assassin can do EVERYTHING that my Operative can do, only better (without BiS gear). I've noticed the same thing, BW has seriously no clue at all, now we cant even stunlock a person and prey he has no CC breaker up, otherwise he doesn't die, they stopped that, there is seriously no reason to even play an operative after 1.2, which makes me sad cause I rolled an operative cause of the storyline plus how fun they are to play AFTER the huge nerf to them just recently.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prevenge Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 A skilled 50 OP still rolls people, effortlessly. This thread is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 A skilled 50 OP still rolls people, effortlessly. This thread is a joke. Actually, you're a joke if operatives roll you. Learn to PVP properly and they're not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 OP here..... For all the people LATE to this party, This isn't a BUFF OPs/Scoundrels thread. We all know thier a great class with AWSOME BURST. This is a GIVE THEM SOME UTILITY. They have almost NONE. YOU SEEK PROOF? HERE IT IS! They have so little UTILITY that they are a MELEE (WITH A STRICKED POSITIONAL REQ) class WITHOUT a gap closer! LET ME SAY THAT AGIAN....A MELEE CLASS WITHOUT A GAP CLOSER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 i like that the cc to death argument is somehow deemed operative specific, other classes can achieve the same duration of cc, and actually have more forms off cc. don't get me wrong it can happen but the problem results from cc not breaking on damage, if cc was about controlling people instead of turning them into a punching bag it wouldn't be so problematic. the lack of perspective on on what causes the problem is astonishing, if you judge the class just by the tone of most anti operatives post you would get the impression we dont so much stab you to death, but we transport you and ourselves to the future where you're already dead. has anyone ever actually seen a post that asks how to beat operatives as opposed to calling for a nerf? at a certain point after multiple nerfs over 2 patches, the ability to keep complaining about them is going to become diminished (at least in the viability of the argument, rest assured it will happen). But this means either people dont know how to deal with the class, or bioware has no idea how to balance it. by looking at the patch notes the vast majority of complaints about the class are being dealt with, whether someone is happy with it is up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namelless Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 LET ME SAY THAT AGIAN....A MELEE CLASS WITHOUT A GAP CLOSER! lol w/e noob stealth is a gap closer l2p ur class noob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdc Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 please explain how someone can be terrible if their CC breaker is down and they get stunlocked to death and are unable to do anything? you can be the most skillful player to ever exist, doesnt matter if you have zero control over your character from start to finish and are unable to do anything to stop it. Then learn when to use your CC ability. Or instead of putting all your points to talents that are +damage, pick some that are defensive in nature. As an example, a sniper can specialize in the Lethality tree to make Counter Measures remove all movement-impairing abilities. Sure, this doesn't remove stun, but it does help since you can burn this to get rid of root as opposed to using your ability that gets rid of stun. But people don't want defensive talents. They always pick offense ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrunlimited Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 lol w/e noob stealth is a gap closer l2p ur class noob then remove sprint or the pull from a shadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namelless Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 then remove sprint or the pull from a shadow I was joking, i play a scoundrel. It's just that's the only response to the gap closing argument the opposition has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralOnasi Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) lol w/e noob stealth is a gap closer l2p ur class noob EDIT: D'oh! Got trolled. Well done sir! Edited March 29, 2012 by AdmiralOnasi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 lol w/e noob stealth is a gap closer l2p ur class noob Fiftysix....Wow rogue....look me up....Trust me I know how to play my class, I've played against and with the greatest players in the WORLD.....YOU? Second i play Shadow not a Scoundrel.....L2 READ. And if you think stealth is a gap closer....well, L2 Play ANY MMO EVER Every Stealth class EVER also includes some sort of gap closer.........EVER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 OP here..... For all the people LATE to this party, This isn't a BUFF OPs/Scoundrels thread. We all know thier a great class with AWSOME BURST. This is a GIVE THEM SOME UTILITY. They have almost NONE. YOU SEEK PROOF? HERE IT IS! They have so little UTILITY that they are a MELEE (WITH A STRICKED POSITIONAL REQ) class WITHOUT a gap closer! LET ME SAY THAT AGIAN....A MELEE CLASS WITHOUT A GAP CLOSER! all that proves is that they dont have a gap closer....not that they dont have utility. you are purposely trying to skew the argument, which is just as bad as the people that claim that ops can kill people in 5 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrunlimited Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Then learn when to use your CC ability. Or instead of putting all your points to talents that are +damage, pick some that are defensive in nature. As an example, a sniper can specialize in the Lethality tree to make Counter Measures remove all movement-impairing abilities. Sure, this doesn't remove stun, but it does help since you can burn this to get rid of root as opposed to using your ability that gets rid of stun. But people don't want defensive talents. They always pick offense ... do you realize how far up the tree this is for operatives/scoundrels?? also do you realize that evasion works the same way?........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Then learn when to use your CC ability. Or instead of putting all your points to talents that are +damage, pick some that are defensive in nature. As an example, a sniper can specialize in the Lethality tree to make Counter Measures remove all movement-impairing abilities. Sure, this doesn't remove stun, but it does help since you can burn this to get rid of root as opposed to using your ability that gets rid of stun. But people don't want defensive talents. They always pick offense ... you can not use ANY ability while stunned get it through your head not to mention pyros dont have any defensive talents, at least none that would help. this is why they are the squishiest spec in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Fiftysix....Wow rogue....look me up....Trust me I know how to play my class, I've played against and with the greatest players in the WORLD.....YOU? Second i play Shadow not a Scoundrel.....L2 READ. And if you think stealth is a gap closer....well, L2 Play ANY MMO EVER Every Stealth class EVER also includes some sort of gap closer.........EVER! ? rogues didnt have a gap closer for a long time. in fact, years later only one tree was given a gap closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 all that proves is that they dont have a gap closer....not that they dont have utility. you are purposely trying to skew the argument, which is just as bad as the people that claim that ops can kill people in 5 seconds. Flashbang... any other utility has to be done in 4 yards...WITHOUT A GAP CLOSER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) ? rogues didnt have a gap closer for a long time. in fact, years later only one tree was given a gap closer. Really? 15 sec Sprint isn't a gap closer? Go away! Edited March 29, 2012 by Izola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Anyone else? Anyone? I can go all day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Flashbang... any other utility has to be done in 4 yards...WITHOUT A GAP CLOSER! besides the point, you are purposely adding moot points in order to try to skew the facts as much as possible. you also forgot stealth, one of the best utility abilities in terms of overall use. now, do ops suck at huttball? yes. their utility is not very useful there. but they are one of the best classes at civil war and void star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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