SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

[Duhakalock]

In ultima online my story was made by ME. My character had his own story and his adventures were writen down in ingame books for all to read. I wronte them.

 

That is how mmorpgs should be. Us players should be the creators of our characters storys. We should BE our toons when we log in but thats not how it is these days.

 

Because everyone is the same as you? Ok your majesty

[Offended]

I'm going to call bs on your whole post,

Personal story is freaking great. And I think I speak for most, DID NOT GIVE A SHT about killing any mob in wow, the only reason we did was for better loot, that's it. If we wanted to know story in wow we had to wowwiki it

 

^-- Never played WC,WC2, WC3, WC3TF

 

But really you didn't need to play those if you had read the quest instead of clicking accept. Also there are hundreds of books all over stratholme, scholomance, scarlet monastery, dire maul, dalaran and dozens of other places that bring the lore to life, if you ever stop to read them. There is also the blizzard encyclopedia http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/lore/ and all the books.

 

Even then, if you knew nothing of the lore, they did such an amazing job with the intro videos.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/media/videos/?keywords=&view#/wrath-cinematic

really, if that doesn't give you chills, you have no soul.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/media/videos/?keywords=&view#/burning-crusade-cinematic

(I was prepared btw)

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/media/videos/?keywords=&view#/black-temple

 

These things give warcraft life. Bioware doesn't have this. Maybe some day it will, but today they do not.

 

 

btw, the number one complaint with dragon soul wasn't that it was easy (LFR is not end game content), it was that the first 5 bosses made no sense. They had no lore and no connection to deathwing and they weren't explained in the traditional sense.

[Offended]

In ultima online my story was made by ME. My character had his own story and his adventures were writen down in ingame books for all to read. I wronte them.

 

That is how mmorpgs should be. Us players should be the creators of our characters storys. We should BE our toons when we log in but thats not how it is these days.

 

MMO's aren't like that today. It seems that Star wars is the exact opposite of this because it is on a rail and choices you make don't effect the outcome of your story. You are either light side or dark side and those currently don't have any consequences. The whole RPG puts you, in charge of your own destiny in a world created through fantasy.

 

If Warcraft would allow more freedom in a person choice in what their characters did, it would be close to the perfect MMO, but Warcraft was never designed to do that as it took the existing Everquest success and built on it. GW2 seems to be getting closer to what a MMO should be, but it might not have the end-game story that warcraft has.

 

I fully expect Titan to blow my mind all over the floor and just obliterate any conceptions we have on what a MMORPG should be.

@ 1:53

[Urdnaxela]

I played WoW for oh so many years and finally decided to quit because i was bored. I was a Cataclysm Beta tester but couldn't really stand the "same old same old" stuff feeling. Was looking forward to SWTOR in part due to being quite a SW fan.

 

It is a big mistake to compare SWTOR today with WOW at launch, even only because of the years that separate both launches. As some other people already said it's like comparing a cell phone launched today with a cell phone launched 10 years ago - nobody would buy it just because it would be better then the cell phones that were on the market 10 years ago.

 

Another thing to add is that the recipe to success is "copy and improve" on the competition.

 

That being said, SWTOR is in dire need of some features and some developers intervention:

 

- Merge servers. This is a must - and i don't really care how many people debate that the population is shrinking or growing and throwing various numbers. It's really irrelevant as anyone can get a pretty good idea of just how many people are on the server they play on, regardless of the time they do this check. How to do it? Just take a peek at GTN. If you're not seeing good and very rare gear, at very high prices - than most likely this is quite an underpopulated server.

 

alternative

 

- Even if i don't completely agree with the idea i must admit that it's the only alternative to server merges: a powerful LFG tool. Yes, i know, that might destroy the community and i really think that this was the case for WoW, but in the case of SWTOR we can't even speak of a community, at least not yet and not at the level of WoW.

 

- A real work needs to be done to address the Rep/Imp imbalance, both in term of population (which they are hoping they will solve with the Legacy system - but this is a two-way trip as it also clearly is going to be used by current Rep players to make and play Imp chars...) and in terms of classes. I have 2 50 lvl chars so far, on different servers, an SI and a JC and let me tell you that i've cursed quite a few times over how Project and Force Quake is so much different than Shock and Force Storm... I just have that Project is slow and that Force Quake knocks your targets out of the ability range, instead of just stunning them as the Force Storm does.

 

- One big disappointment is the lack of ingame moderators and customer service personnel. The really needs to be addressed soon, as the frustrations mount.

 

- Although i must admit that adding new content is a good move to keep people playing and even adding a few newcomers, Bioware seems to not have learned from Blizzard's mistake of not addressing bugs (a lesson Blizzard itself learned the hard way). Please don't let the bugs "blink" from patch to patch...

 

- Maintenance... For many of use this might not be a real issue, while for some odd scheduled people it is quite a big one. But with the new AU&NZ players coming in, this is now turning into real trouble, a few steps away from just the inconvenience it was for the European players.

 

- Combat RT logs / Meters. People do need them and although i argue against meters visible to everyone. Self meters, at least, are in real need (and this will further help you to balance the mirror classes).

 

- Make short work of those dreadful time killing zones, like space station and other transit areas. They serve no other purpose other than to raise the player's blood pressure.

 

- More work done on making all crew skills useful (maybe 1.2 will solve this but i wouldn't hold my breath).

 

Those are just a couple of thing,s most likely there a dozens more but bottom line is that people should start comparing SWTOR with WoW launch. It's been 10 years since WoW launched (a less success story than SWTOR i might add) and you know what? I would not buy a car that boasts to be better than what cars were 10 years ago, so stop this comparison as it only serves to hurt SWTOR.

[Darka]

Players are lazy and people are stupid.

Give a MMOer an open path with a destination at the end, at one time he would have walked and explored it, now he would of quit because the game was "incomplete" as he waited for something to come and pick him up and take him directly to the destination

[grandmthethird]

^-- Never played WC,WC2, WC3, WC3TF

 

But really you didn't need to play those if you had read the quest instead of clicking accept. Also there are hundreds of books all over stratholme, scholomance, scarlet monastery, dire maul, dalaran and dozens of other places that bring the lore to life, if you ever stop to read them. There is also the blizzard encyclopedia http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/lore/ and all the books.

 

Even then, if you knew nothing of the lore, they did such an amazing job with the intro videos.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/media/videos/?keywords=&view#/wrath-cinematic

really, if that doesn't give you chills, you have no soul.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/media/videos/?keywords=&view#/burning-crusade-cinematic

(I was prepared btw)

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/media/videos/?keywords=&view#/black-temple

 

These things give warcraft life. Bioware doesn't have this. Maybe some day it will, but today they do not.

 

 

btw, the number one complaint with dragon soul wasn't that it was easy (LFR is not end game content), it was that the first 5 bosses made no sense. They had no lore and no connection to deathwing and they weren't explained in the traditional sense.

 

does any of that lore explain how they destroyed the whole franchise when they abandoned their RTS background? the whole its an RTS and we are making an MMO out of it, never made sense to me, it was almost like the guy in the ideas departmet had no ideas. so they just used something old rather than making anything new

[Nightspirit]

Thats not the point though.

Keep raids and dungons and pvp but give us a lot of other time sinks we can do. The game that gives us a theme park game with raids and such and combines that with player housing llike building your house from scratch, and having businesses like real estate agents and house decorators in the game will win over anything that comes out.

 

This guy gets it. TOR should have moved MMOs to the next level instead of causing it to stagnate.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Nightspirit

[Darth_Grissom]

Players are lazy and people are stupid.

Give a MMOer an open path with a destination at the end, at one time he would have walked and explored it, now he would of quit because the game was "incomplete" as he waited for something to come and pick him up and take him directly to the destination

 

Good point here.

 

My character in Ultima Online had a destination at the end. He wanted to become a mayer of a town. He wanted to be the best swordsman as possible.

 

Instad he became insane due to a deamon and ran around the land killing people or at least tryed even if he was outnumbered. Instad of using a sword he used an axe.

 

There was a whole lot more to it but I dont feel like explaining my whole toon here. I had an open path to take and I actually went through the whole thing and reached the end. There was no quests or levels for my character, only skills to level up. Those days are gone for now and I can accept that.

 

What I cant accept is the people who HAVE to be carried through the game by the developers through quests, and end game raids, dungons, and instanced PVP.

 

Ultima Online had NONE of that. It had dungons but you raided it to hae fun not for gear/ The pvp was there but again, didnt rely at all on gear. It relyed on skill nothing more. If you were good at anything in the game the whole server would eventually know you.

 

My server knew me as the best and fair real estate agent on my server. They also knew me for having everything being sold in ONE place and having the best prices. To get a reputation like this took a lot of time and affort on my part. I had to go to EVERY but competator vendor mall on my server and make sure I had the lowest prices.

 

I spent HOURS selling homes for people and buying homes for others. Posting ads for my customers on the real estate websure for our whole server that everyone used to sell homes. II had to spend hours farming rare decorations.

 

I also spent hours building homes from scrath for people and then decorating their homes and being paid for it + the cost of materials.

 

That sounds much more fun and immersed me in the game a lot more then any theme park game ever could.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Darth_Grissom

[Offended]

does any of that lore explain how they destroyed the whole franchise when they abandoned their RTS background? the whole its an RTS and we are making an MMO out of it, never made sense to me, it was almost like the guy in the ideas departmet had no ideas. so they just used something old rather than making anything new

 

I don't know, if you can't see or understand why the Warcraft Universe was the perfect setting for a MMORPG then i have nothing to say.

[Valkirus]

To be honest I don't understand their reluctance to introduce cross server LFG.

SWTOR community was stillborn, it was never alive and is never going to get better than it is now.

If they don't introduce LFG tool soon, community will still be dead, but they'll just piss more people off.

 

I agree with this. TOR needs some features other MMO's have used to great success and the LFG tool is one. And if they donot make it cross server..they will only limit the player base which can take advantage of it.

[Zachajariah]

I really don't think anybody with common sense cares about this argument anymore.

 

I don't browse WoW forums but if they are still having this debate it's because they are insecure and too big of a fanboy to want WoW to fail.

 

Personally I logged into my free level 80 last night to realize there's no point; the game has NO immersion or community. Raid? What's the point, haha. I killed deathwing in a pug 6 months ago in PvP blues, and that's the top tier boss for what, another 8 months or so? Right, lots to do there...

 

It seems as if more adults play this game and don't feel it necessary to run around being fanboys flexing their e-peen any chance they get.

[illgot]

You know what i love, I bet the guy you quoted, back in teh day was all like "Man it'd be awesome if our non-combat pets could fight each other. My Peanut would kick your Baby Blizzard Bears butt!"

 

Now that they actually do it, he's all like "OMG TEENAGER GAME ROFFLE POKEMON PANDA WORLD LOLOLOLOL"

 

god forbid a game company build fun activities in their game. How dare the imagine that people would want to do something other than...

 

-Dailies

 

-PvP

 

-Instances

[aznthecapn]

1. Yes, SWTOR launched with way more content than vanilla WOW did back in it's beginner days.

 

This isn't even remotely true.

 

2. SWTOR's content is growing even now as we speak. Blizzard hardly ever made new content for WoW that wasn't an expansion you had to buy.

 

Also patently false. Massive patches adding PvP, rankings sytems, dungeons, raids, profession content, story lines, dailies and more were all added free over the course of seven years. Do you even know what content is?

 

3. SWTOR shows more potential than WoW. Coming out the gate with so much content, and constantly updating with new content, SWTOR will be WoW's size well before long. And then easily surpass it.

 

There's no telling what potential SWTOR has right now or where it will be but it has got a metric crap-ton of work ahead of it to reach the size of WoW. "Easy" is not the right word to use.

[cs_Kimmo]

This isn't even remotely true.

 

Yes, it is.

[dsapp]

This isn't even remotely true.

 

Actually, he's right. There weren't even BGs in the initial WoW launch. They didn't come to be until 7 months later. Things NOT included with launch were AV, WSG, AB, BWL, Naxx, AQ40, AQ20, ZG, World Bosses, Dire Maul, and Maraudon. Meaning they opened with MC and Ony (a 1 boss affair), 17 dungeons (several of which were split into sections like SM), and that's about it.

[aznthecapn]

Actually, he's right. There weren't even BGs in the initial WoW launch. They didn't come to be until 7 months later. Things NOT included with launch were AV, WSG, AB, BWL, Naxx, AQ40, AQ20, ZG, World Bosses, Dire Maul, and Maraudon. Meaning they opened with MC and Ony (a 1 boss affair), 17 dungeons (several of which were split into sections like SM), and that's about it.

 

They opened with 9 classes instead of 8, many, many dungeons and, most importantly, upwards of three zones per level bracket to choose from. The simple fact that you could level three different characters on the same faction and have three different leveling experiences is a massive advantage over SWTOR - especially when the game is in its infancy and all there is to do is level a main and alts while endgame gets sorted out.

 

He's very wrong about the amount of content added for FREE as well. Every content patch adding raids (most of which were far superior to the expansion released raid), dungeons, dailies, crafting enhancements, battlegrounds (most of them), PvP ranking, new gear, new storylines. I had a boatload more stuff to do when WoW came out than I did when SWTOR came out.

[Offended]

Personally I logged into my free level 80 last night to realize there's no point; the game has NO immersion or community. Raid? What's the point, haha. I killed deathwing in a pug 6 months ago in PvP blues, and that's the top tier boss for what, another 8 months or so? Right, lots to do there..

 

So, how often do you just make stuff up like this? Why would you log on to a "Free 80", when you obviously have an 85. You already knew what to do on your 80, since you leveled to 85.

 

Dragon Soul was released at the end of nov. it's been out 5 days shy of 4 months, so obviously you didn't do this in a pug 6 months ago. unless you were on PTR, which is when Dragon soul raid was actually released on PTR (sept 27th, 11). You can't do Dungeon finder in blue pvp gear.

 

This is as bad as those guys that think there was no raids, no dungeons, 4 classes and level cap was 40 when wow was released (have seen posts like this).

[illgot]

They opened with 9 classes instead of 8, many, many dungeons and, most importantly, upwards of three zones per level bracket to choose from. The simple fact that you could level three different characters on the same faction and have three different leveling experiences is a massive advantage over SWTOR - especially when the game is in its infancy and all there is to do is level a main and alts while endgame gets sorted out.

 

He's very wrong about the amount of content added for FREE as well. Every content patch adding raids (most of which were far superior to the expansion released raid), dungeons, dailies, crafting enhancements, battlegrounds (most of them), PvP ranking, new gear, new storylines. I had a boatload more stuff to do when WoW came out than I did when SWTOR came out.

 

But but, we have dialogue for EVERYTHING!

[Ishko]

So, how often do you just make stuff up like this? Why would you log on to a "Free 80", when you obviously have an 85. You already knew what to do on your 80, since you leveled to 85.

 

Dragon Soul was released at the end of nov. it's been out 5 days shy of 4 months, so obviously you didn't do this in a pug 6 months ago. unless you were on PTR, which is when Dragon soul raid was actually released on PTR (sept 27th, 11). You can't do Dungeon finder in blue pvp gear.

 

This is as bad as those guys that think there was no raids, no dungeons, 4 classes and level cap was 40 when wow was released (have seen posts like this).

 

I'll never understand the rage boys against wow. If you quit because it's boring, or because cata moved away from easy casual friendly content, I understand that. Alot of people joined durring LK which was noob friendly, cata not so much so of course they'd leave. That doesn't make the game worse, it means the first 2 teirs of cata content weren't built towards the noob crowd. But that doesn't really explain why folks go out of their way to demonize wow. Honestly, alot of you people need to get over it, and get a life.

 

If you don't like wow, fine not every one will, play SWTOR and enjoy it, I'm enjoying both for the time being. I don't have this uncontrollable urge to spew hate threads about each game.

[Duhakalock]

So, how often do you just make stuff up like this? Why would you log on to a "Free 80", when you obviously have an 85. You already knew what to do on your 80, since you leveled to 85.

 

Dragon Soul was released at the end of nov. it's been out 5 days shy of 4 months, so obviously you didn't do this in a pug 6 months ago. unless you were on PTR, which is when Dragon soul raid was actually released on PTR (sept 27th, 11). You can't do Dungeon finder in blue pvp gear.

 

This is as bad as those guys that think there was no raids, no dungeons, 4 classes and level cap was 40 when wow was released (have seen posts like this).

 

He's right when he says there is nothing to do. The free 80 is new perk of recruit a friend.

And to be fair, swtor did launch with more toys. If you say otherwise you are a liar liar pants on fire.

[aznthecapn]

This is as bad as those guys that think there was no raids, no dungeons, 4 classes and level cap was 40 when wow was released (have seen posts like this).

 

Indeed.

 

See above.

 

And to be fair, swtor did launch with more toys. If you say otherwise you are a liar liar pants on fire.

 

Toys isn't content. Its also 7 years later.

Edited March 25, 2012 by aznthecapn

[Shingara]

They opened with 9 classes instead of 8, many, many dungeons and, most importantly, upwards of three zones per level bracket to choose from. The simple fact that you could level three different characters on the same faction and have three different leveling experiences is a massive advantage over SWTOR - especially when the game is in its infancy and all there is to do is level a main and alts while endgame gets sorted out.

 

He's very wrong about the amount of content added for FREE as well. Every content patch adding raids (most of which were far superior to the expansion released raid), dungeons, dailies, crafting enhancements, battlegrounds (most of them), PvP ranking, new gear, new storylines. I had a boatload more stuff to do when WoW came out than I did when SWTOR came out.

 

wow came out with 9 classes but only 4 per side, you didnt have more todo in wow when it released, the only thing you had more off was the time it took to get to top level due to the amount of xp required and 20 minuite rides on taxis or waiting for boats. when you got to top lvl in wow in vannila you spent most the time sat in a main city looking for a pug or doing pvp to maintain your pvp rank which they got rid of later in the game.

 

Also the reason there were 3/ish zones per level bracket was due to the insane amount of xp required, of which most people just went with there mates and ignored most of them.

 

The crafting in wow was and is a royal pain in the rear, boring and dull. requiring insane amounts of mats to lvl for absolutly worthless gear. its even worse now on the gear front as tokens remove the need for 99.7% of all things made by players.

 

Also there is alot todo within swtor but people complaining cannot be bothered todo it where as they feel its great when they talk about it in terms of wow, there are dailys, there is pvp which not ranked yet will be in 1.2 and you dont pvp because of a rank, you pvp because you love to pvp end of.

 

There is crafting that isnt just a blank recipie, you can break down the things you make to get mats back and re use to further advance your crafting and the chance improve the recipie. Of which the best money to be made in ccrafting at this moment in time is infact mid level gear as people are always leveling alts or new chars of which is only going to improve in 1.2 when orange gear can be crafted with better results.

 

So yes wow was good years ago but thats only because there was nothing to compare it too. soe had torpedoed there own game and mxo in the backlash. eq was old, eq2 looked aged from release. eve is a total different genre so cant be compared so what was there else to play back then when it came to mmos. nothing.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Shingara

[Duhakalock]

Indeed.

 

See above.

 

Toys isn't content. Its also 7 years later.

 

Yes content, swtor did launch with more content. Wanna fight about it?

[chrisftw]

Yes content, swtor did launch with more content. Wanna fight about it?

 

don't challenge the WOW head. i've been scanning his post. WOW is his holy bastion like his crux and shield he carries into any battle.

 

however those will be promptly dropped when GW2 comes out

 

because GW2 solves EVERYTHING, every . single . little . thing. Wrong with MMO's today. anything you don't like and anything you don't even know you don't like will be fixed. in fact i heard GW2 will be so perfect out of the box and so full of content and lore that not a single content patch, or patch in general will come out for 6 years!

[BlondGypsy]

A contemporary MMORPG that takes place in a contemporary world very similar to, but not ours with playable vampires (and humans, but not have factions so you'd have a mixed bag of humans and vampires vs. each other in battlegrounds) would simply be awesome. Or, like Final Fantasy VIII, take place in that weird spot between contemporary and futuristic, like what we think 50-100 years might look like technologically.

 

In other words, you're hoping White Wolf will pair up with a major game developer? I freely admit that I would pay to play that game.