SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

[Gorrdan]

Swtor is better than WoW

 

Daoc is better than WoW

 

Eve Online is better than WoW

 

WoW sucks, expand your horizons people, plenty of MMO's are better than WoW, WoW has a good PR department Ill give it that......but the cartoon that is WoW is for 10 year olds and under,not a game for adults

 

What rubbish. I still enjoy watching cartoons at age of 30 as i did when i was 12. Do you hate pixar movies too? i find this statement ironic considering you are posting this on SWTOR forums.

 

I bet you have stash of comics hidden under your bed.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Gorrdan

[Jett-Rinn]

WoW must be spending loads of money to get it's people posting here.

 

This is SWTOR guys, WoW forum -----------> that way.

 

The thing is..... some of the same people who are talking up WoW here are bashing WoW over at the Blizzard forums. It's and old and tired game one day developers will catch on and stop providing the Toxic waste land known as the General Forum.

[RabidPopcorn]

What rubbish. I still enjoy watching cartoons at age of 30 as i did when i was 12. Do you hate pixar movies too? i find this statement ironic considering you are posting this on SWTOR forums.

 

I have friends who have this gripe with WoW to the extent that they wouldn't even play it. I guess it's a matter of personal preference; warcraft has ALWAYS been cartoony and I never felt really bothered by it.

 

Back to the main topic: I feel people aren't giving enough credit to WoW. I no longer play WoW as frequently as I used to because SWTOR is where I'm at now but it still doesn't take away from the fact that WoW managed to provide quality entertainment for the years that I've played it. I find it a little intriguing how people are defending SWTOR against WoW - SWTOR is a shiny new game so it's expected that players will have high expectations for it, but when it fails to meet their expectations then be prepared for criticism. WoW is an old game, so it's only natural that WoW would look crappy compared to SWTOR, but as I've said before, we shouldn't forget the good times that WoW gave to us in the past.

[Ramaos]

I Like SWTOR.

 

I used to like WoW but now I like SWTOR.

 

I have no major gripes with either game but WoW bores me now.

[Offended]

 

e) The characters models are a hell of a lot better: facial animations, proportions (while blizzard has promised to rework 'the old races' since introducing bc)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uDF_JLVLV8&feature=youtu.be

 

You're right, star wars has such better facial animations..

 

Proportions? Well that's simple when all 8 races in star wars has the exact same shape, aside from the head model.

 

There was an black/white image of star wars races, but i can't find it.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Offended

[Jaxxar]

I will say this.

 

I do not hate either game however,

 

It took me 7 years to become bored with WoW.

It took me 2 months to become bored with SWTOR.

[Melacon]

I will say this.

 

I do not hate either game however,

 

It took me 7 years to become bored with WoW.

It took me 2 months to become bored with SWTOR.

 

Pretty much, I even played Aion longer than 2 months, mostly cause it took longer to level which is still ok in my book.

 

People say things like fishing, cooking, achievements, etc are stupid and silly but in the grand scheme of things, it's just something to do....Other than fight things and watch companion craft timers, there is nothing else to do in SWTOR. (and no, I'm not going to collect willpower datacrons for my smuggler )

[Kinrain]

I will say this.

 

I do not hate either game however,

 

It took me 7 years to become bored with WoW.

It took me 2 months to become bored with SWTOR.

 

I will say this.

 

I think it took you 7 years and 2 months to become bored with MMOs.

 

Search your feelings Jaxxar, you know it to be true.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Kinrain

[GalacticKegger]

I hate to beat a dead horse too much, but the obvious fight going in the MMO space right now is between WoW and SWTOR.

 

... snip ...

 

I'm not suggesting that Bioware should be trying to emulate WoW. I am saying that Bioware should be looking at WoW and other MMOs and seeing uniform features - like dungeon finders - and saying "yeah, that's something we should have had at launch, and something we should get into the game asap." And it was foolish of Bioware to release the game in the state it was in. Whilst it's certainly an accomplishment to have made SWTOR, it's also a testimony to the failures of the team. I'm hopeful - as are many others - that they've come to realise their folly.

Here is guessing that you are perfectly happy beating a dead horse, and that you are suggesting that Bioware should be trying to emulate WoW. Same old crap just more eloquent wordsmithing.

 

Blizz doesn't "get it" any more than anyone else does or WoW wouldn't be bleeding subs like they are. WoW's market entry timing was luck (i.e. the intersection of preparation and opportunity.) And opportunity saved them because, well ... the preparation part? Blizzard's dev flat out overhauled the graphics engine 2 months before launch and it destabilized the game. Took them a year to fix the crashes and 14 months before the game ever had an end game. Nope, the opportunity was so huge not even they could screw it up. Though I recall apologetic emails with free timecode registrations in them to keep folks like me from going elsewhere.

 

I'd say BW's dev has been doing just fine implementing and solidifying the core gameplay features first. Just because the game came without one person's pet peeve features doesn't make it less of anything compared to others. Man, there's that compensating need to compare again. What is it with you people?

Edited March 26, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Jmannseelo]

Funny that the first post is always spam and doesn't read the OP.

 

Completely agree with the assessment; this game's launch was lacking. People who are okay with it by comparing it to WoW's launch are backward thinkers. This game needed to launch with much more if it wanted to be the most successful MMO available.

 

So you're saying Bioware should have waited ten years to release TOR? I mean, it took WoW 10 years to get all that stuff, so....

[Jederix]

MMO's aren't like that today. It seems that Star wars is the exact opposite of this because it is on a rail and choices you make don't effect the outcome of your story. You are either light side or dark side and those currently don't have any consequences. The whole RPG puts you, in charge of your own destiny in a world created through fantasy.

 

If Warcraft would allow more freedom in a person choice in what their characters did, it would be close to the perfect MMO, but Warcraft was never designed to do that as it took the existing Everquest success and built on it. GW2 seems to be getting closer to what a MMO should be, but it might not have the end-game story that warcraft has.

 

I fully expect Titan to blow my mind all over the floor and just obliterate any conceptions we have on what a MMORPG should be.@ 1:53

 

Most Blizzard Cultists like yourself also expect this. You will be disappointed.

[Offended]

Actually, I'm guessing you are perfectly happy beating a dead horse - same old crap just more eloquent wordsmithing. Blizz doesn't get it any more than anyone else does or WoW wouldn't be bleeding subs like they are. WoW's market entry timing was luck (i.e. the intersection of preparation and opportunity.) And opportunity saved them because, well ... the preparation part?

 

Losing 7% of players (800,000) over a 3 month period is not bleeding subscriptions when you have 11 million worldwide. if they lost say, 30% over the course of 3 months, then you might have a valid point. At the same time, star wars isn't bleeding subs either, but that could be from people foolishly buying 6 month blocks of game time that hasn't run out yet.

 

They flat out changed the graphics engine 2 months before launch and it destabilized the game. Took them a year to fix the crashes and 14 months before the game ever had an end game.

 

Nope, the opportunity was so huge not even they could screw it up. Though I recall apologetic emails with free timecode registrations in them to keep folks like me from going elsewhere.

 

You sure this was warcraft and not something else? Because warcraft shipped with full end-game raids and they never rebuilt the graphics engine directly before live release. The 3D animation system had the following changes.

There have been extensive changes made to the model and animation system in order to increase performance while playing in densely populated areas (such as cities and PvP encounters). Specifically, we have added hardware vertex shader support and a hardware cursor for those cards that support it

 

OH MY GOD SHAME ON YOU Blizzard for improving your game before release. To bad bioware didn't bother doing something like that, we might have high res textures and models that have facial expressions.

 

 

Server crashes were mainly server load related problems. No one could have estimated the popularity of warcraft at release. Even using exaggerated estimates from their stress test phases wouldn't have predicted the impact the game would have on the gaming world. in the second stress test they bragged about having half a million people on 4 servers online concurrently without issue, but release proved to be an entirely different problem. That's 125,000 people online playing wow at the same time, release had MORE than this.

 

 

14 months before end game content? Nov 04 to Jan 06 is 14 months.

Warcraft had released, by then (including release day)

Onyxia

Molten Core

Maraudon (lvl 45-50 zone, not really endgame)

Diremaul

Outdoor Raid Bosses (Azuregos & Lord Kazzak)

PVP Honor

Battlegrounds (WSG & Alterac Valley)

Blackwing Lair

Darkmoon Faire

Zul'Gurub

Arathi Basin

Fishing Extravaganza (still popular today)

4 additional world bosses (Dragons of the nightmare)

Halloween event (still done today)

Silithus was completed in prep for AQ 20/40

Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj (20m)

Temple of Ahn'Qiraj (40m)

Battleground Queues were also added.

 

That's the end game content added in the 14 months since warcrafts release on Nov 23rd, 2004.

 

Obviously i couldn't list the hundreds of additional quests, thousands of bug fixes, by this time 6 of the 9 classes had complete talent and skill revamps. UI changes, instance changes, PvE and PvP balances, profession changes, additions and removed items and dozens of hotfixes that don't require a client patches.

 

Keep in mind that most, read around 90% by blizzards own numbers, have yet to step inside molten core by the time AQ 40 was opened up.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Offended

[chaosmadness]

What's the point of this stupid threads ?? Still not understand...

 

Ppl are getting a bit limited....

[GalacticKegger]

Losing 7% of players (800,000) over a 3 month period is not bleeding subscriptions when you have 11 million worldwide. if they lost say, 30% over the course of 3 months, then you might have a valid point. At the same time, star wars isn't bleeding subs either, but that could be from people foolishly buying 6 month blocks of game time that hasn't run out yet.

• Down from 12M to 11M in 2010; 70% of Starter Edition F2Ps drop by level 10
  
• Down from 11M to 10M in November of 2011; Cata doesn't fix it.
  
• Followed by layoffs
  
• And the loss of another 100k subs in January ... mine included.

You sure this was warcraft and not something else? Because warcraft shipped with full end-game raids and they never rebuilt the graphics engine directly before live release. The 3D animation system had the following changes.

WoW shipped with BRS (1 raid) and Onyxia (1 World Boss.) WoW had no PvP Warzones until 7 months after launch (Battlegrounds patch 1.5) and no end game until Patch 1.9: The Gates of Ahn'Qiraj ... 14 months after it was released. Edited March 26, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Mysquine]

WoW shipped with BRS (1 raid) and Onyxia (1 World Boss.) Thete was no end game until Patch 1.9: The Gates of Ahn'Qiraj ... 14 months after launch.

 

Pretty sure you're wrong there. There was Azuragos - The Blue Dragon in Azshara (40 man World Raid Boss) / Kazzak in Blasted Lands (40 man World Raid Boss) along with UBRS which was a 15 man instance, Stratholme and scholomance which was a 10 man instance along with LBRS which was a 10 man.

 

Also not forgetting Molten Core (40 man Raid Instance) which was out quite soon if not from launch, then Zul'Gurub the first 20 man to be introduced, BWL the next tier of raiding armour before you had AQ ect.

 

AQ Provided the first "World Event" along with defending Moonglade and having fun slaughtering thousands of Bugs!

 

Either way they had alot more to do and because the gear was obtained in such large groups it took you a lot longer to obtain the piece of gear that you needed.

 

All in all, the game was far slower progressing and at the time I'd say even a little bit more difficult.

 

But there's no point comparing SWTOR to WoW because they are so similar yet completely different. They've both got some great points and some bad points.

 

Either way, I will always miss the days of Vanilla / TBC WoW.

[djmurloc]

Warcraft has had nearly ten years of development and is still crap. I have tried playing it 3 times over the years and could not stand it for more than a couple weeks. that said, let the horse rest in piece. Quit bringing up the TOR/wow comparisons. They are getting old and annoying.

 

This.

[GalacticKegger]

Pretty sure you're wrong there. There was Azuragos - The Blue Dragon in Azshara (40 man World Raid Boss) / Kazzak in Blasted Lands (40 man World Raid Boss) along with UBRS which was a 15 man instance, Stratholme and scholomance which was a 10 man instance along with LBRS which was a 10 man.

 

Also not forgetting Molten Core (40 man Raid Instance) which was out quite soon if not from launch, then Zul'Gurub the first 20 man to be introduced, BWL the next tier of raiding armour before you had AQ ect.

 

AQ Provided the first "World Event" along with defending Moonglade and having fun slaughtering thousands of Bugs!

 

Either way they had alot more to do and because the gear was obtained in such large groups it took you a lot longer to obtain the piece of gear that you needed.

 

All in all, the game was far slower progressing and at the time I'd say even a little bit more difficult.

 

But there's no point comparing SWTOR to WoW because they are so similar yet completely different. They've both got some great points and some bad points.

 

Either way, I will always miss the days of Vanilla / TBC WoW.

Ya ... forgot about MC lol. Here's vanilla WoW's post release patch highlights (months in parathenthesis = the number of months after launch the patch was released):

 

Patch 1.2.0: Mysteries of Maraudon 18 December 2004 (1 mo)

- Maraudon is introduced

- Gurubashi Arena Event introduced

- Cloak / Helm Graphics can be toggled

 

Patch 1.2.1 21 December 2004 (1 mo)

- The EU version of patch 1.2

- Rolling for items in the French and German will now work properly

- Resolved an issue with looting in click to move mode that could cause crashes

- Performance issues occurring with certain CPUs have been resolved

 

Patch 1.2.2 15 February 2005 (3 mos)

- Fixed a bug that incorrectly enabled the vertex animation shader option on some GPU's that do not support it.

- Group loot has been fixed to work as originally intended.

- Fixed a group loot permission bug that was telling players they did not have permission to loot.

- Fixed a bug that was causing the game to freeze when scrolling through auctions in the Auction House.

- Onyxia correctly hovers instead of standing in midair.

- Quests that require you to follow/escort an NPC will only complete when you arrive at the designated area.

- Horde and Alliance members cannot duel with each other regardless of realm type.

- Herbs and mineral nodes will remain active if they are not fully emptied.

 

Patch 1.2.3 22 February 2005 (3 mos)

- Minor patch to address EU text display issues.

 

Patch 1.2.4 22 February 2005 (3 mos)

- Emergency patch improved performance when large numbers of players are gathered in a small area of the world.

 

Patch 1.3.0: Ruins of the Dire Maul 7 March 2005 (4 mos)

- Meeting Stones introduced

- Dire Maul added

- Azuregos added

- Lord Kazzak added

 

Patch 1.3.1 22 March 2005 (4 mos)

- Fixed a crash bug that would happen infrequently when teleporting

- Fixed a UI error that could occur in certain zones

 

Patch 1.4.0: The Call to War 8th April 2005 (5 mos)

- Epic Priest quest introduced

- Epic Hunter quest introduced

- PvP Honor System introduced

 

Patch 1.4.1 3 May 2005 (6 mos)

- Bug fixes

 

Patch 1.4.2 3 May 2005 (6 mos)

- Minor patch has been released to address a crash issue in 1.4.1.

 

Patch 1.5.0: Battlegrounds 7 June 2005 (7 mos)

- Battlegrounds are introduced: Alterac Valley & Warsong Gulch

- Cloth Quartermaster are introduced.

 

Patch 1.5.1 14 June 2005 (7 mos)

- Fixed an assertion that was preventing Mac clients from playing in the battlegrounds and causing a memory leak on PCs when they did

- Improved error reporting to give more useful information to development

 

Patch 1.6.0: Assault on Blackwing Lair 12 July (8 mos)

- Blackwing Lair introduced

- Darkmoon Faire introduced

- Battlemasters introduced

 

Patch 1.6.1 2 August 2005 (9 mos)

- Bug fixes

 

Patch 1.7.0: Rise of the Blood God 13 September (10 mos)

- Zul'Gurub (new 20-player raid instance)

- Arathi Basin (15-player resource battleground instance)

- High-Level Items

 

Patch 1.7.1 22 September 2005 (10 mos)

- Altered geometry in Arathi Basin to prevent a possible exploit.

 

Patch 1.8.0: Dragons of Nightmare 10 October 2005 (11 mos)

- The four corrupted dragons from the Emerald Dream added

- Silithus - Totally revamped zone for level 60 solo players and 5-man parties.

 

Patch 1.8.1 25 October 2005 (11 mos)

- Battlegrounds - certain geometry exploits in Arathi Basin have been fixed.

- Fonts should once again display properly.

- Fixed bug preventing UI scripting error messages from wrapping.

- Fixed per-character saved variables for non-English character names.

 

Patch 1.8.2 27 October 2005 (11 mos)

- Rolled out in Europe because of a bug in the German client.

- Fixed a crash with loot-roll messages.

 

Patch 1.8.3 15 November 2005 (1 yr)

- Blizzard Launcher - AddOn button should now properly show on the character selection screen for players using custom interfaces.

 

Patch 1.8.4 5 December 2005 (1yr, 1 mo)

- Minimum battleground time for Mark of Honor received by losers. (10 min)

- Feast of Winter Veil preparations.

- Bug fixes.

- Patch 1.9 preparations.

 

Patch 1.9: The Gates of Ahn'Qiraj 3 January 2006 (1yr, 2mo)

- The Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj (outdoor 20-player instance)

- The Temple of Ahn'Qiraj (indoor 40-player instance)

- New Tier 2 Epic Armor Models and graphics

- Linked Auction Houses

- Raid Dungeons Timers

- Shard Bags

 

Patch 1.9.1 10 January 2006 (1yr, 2mo)

- Bugfixes

 

Patch 1.9.2 12 January 2006 (1yr, 2mo)

- Movement smoothing bugfix

 

Patch 1.9.3 7 February 2006 (1yr, 3mo)

- Love is in the Air

- Zul'Gurub modified

- Fights changed: Hakkar, Panther, Spider, Bloodlord.

- Number of trash mobs reduced to allow quicker completion.

- Zandalar reputation points increased.

- Loot drop rate modifications

- Support for Intel Mac OS X

 

Patch 1.9.4 14 February 2006 (1yr, 3mo)

Guild recruiting channel added

 

Patch 1.10: Storms of Azeroth 28 March 2006 (1yr, 4mo)

- Weather effects added

- Tier 0.5 armor sets

 

Patch 1.11 Shadow of Necropolis 20 June 2006 (1yr, 7mo)

- Naxxramas, (40-player raid instance)

- API additions

Edited March 26, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[conductivity]

When i had first hear SWTOR wasn't going to have cross-server LFG i was really happy about that. Iv'e been gaming for years. Though vanilla WoW as a game itself wasn't the best back then, the community was awesome. You knew people back then. Even outside of your guild. There were friends. People you knew were good tanks, or healers. Guys who you knew were awesome at pvp. Then there were the infamous ninjas, who back then were black listed. Those were good times. Then came cross server LFG. It very much destroyed the sense of community in game. It made ethics...dwindle. It helped enable the birth of the newborn baby trolls. All this was why i was so happy about NOT having LFG in swtor. But now i log into swtor, and if i dare to play at non peak hours, there's nothing to do. I can spam fleet chat for hours for an HM and never find a group. Yeah, i can pvp all day, but i don't want to do only that. I want some diversity. Thanks to wow the mmorpg gaming community is much larger than it once was. This caused bioware to have to open up a ton of servers at launch to try and not lose subs due to long queues. Once populations balanced out, we're now left with low numbers on the too many servers, causing there to be nothing to do WITHOUT a cross server LFG. I like this game, I do. As much as it pains me to admit. We need either cross server LFG or server mergers and fast or this game's gonna die quick. /sadface

[Darth_Mordrid]

First off, you should have titled this thread differently since all you talk about is the Dungeon Finder. But overall I think we all can relate to what you mean.

 

Here is my take...I have been playing WoW from the start, not a bad game but here is the thing. WoW = endgame only. period. The game is one of the most boring games in terms of leveling up. Until you get to endgame pvp/pve there is nothing really worth talking about, maybe with the exception of the Death Knight intro quests. I for one would never want to start that game over from scratch.

 

But yes, Bioware has to get the system rolling more. Fix the graphics, add in systems such as the dungeon finder, get rid of the bugs, etc. The game has way more potential than any other MMO made thus far, so I hope they get it going quick.

[Azzras]

Ya ... forgot about MC lol. Here's World of Warcraft's post release patch highlights (months in parathenthesis = the number of months after launch the patch was released):

 

<snip>

 

SWTOR's patch 1.2 has more than all of those patches combined!

Edited March 26, 2012 by Azzras

[Farho]

SWTOR's patch 1.2 has more than all of those patches combined!

 

They have 5 huge and challenging raids, 2 5-player dungeons and 6 world bosses. Please don't comment on things you're clueless about.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Farho

[Azzras]

They have 5 huge and challenging raids, 2 5-player dungeons and 6 world bosses. Please don't comment on things you're clueless about.

 

You should try to be a bit nicer, especially since WoW is past its prime and this is your new home.

[Mysquine]

They have 5 huge and challenging raids, 2 5-player dungeons and 6 world bosses. Please don't comment on things you're clueless about.

 

This They had ALOT to do in World of Warcraft. I'll be honest, it took quite a while to get to 60 if you didn't rush it (which back then many people didn't) and the content felt epic. You'd spent weeks progressing in MC until you'd have the gear to be able to clear it in a matter of hours.

 

When AQ/BWL was out we used to clear MC in 50ish minutes. Was great fun - 40 people all working hard. To me that was how an MMO Should have been. Again I do love SWTOR but nothing will compare to the memories of Vanilla / TBC Raiding and gaming.

[GalacticKegger]

They have 5 huge and challenging raids, 2 5-player dungeons and 6 world bosses. Please don't comment on things you're clueless about.

Everything of which you speak was in place ... after 14 months worth of patches. I am sure many will be happy to have this very conversation in this very thread sometime around early spring of next year. Assuming this thread isn't consolidated into one of the other dozen or so threads exactly like it saying the exact same thing only differently. Edited March 26, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Achromatis]

Eh, the problem isnt the lack of a group finder. The problem is everybodys apparent inability(the OP is a perfect example) to find groups without a group finder system.

 

So we do need a group finder in TOR, but only because the majority of players are children that cant feed themselves.

 

I will say this.

 

I do not hate either game however,

 

It took me 7 years and 2 months to become bored of the same genre of game.

 

fixd that for you.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Achromatis