indelible Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I hate to beat a dead horse too much, but the obvious fight going in the MMO space right now is between WoW and SWTOR. When SWTOR came out there was a vocal minority arguing that what SWTOR is now is better than WoW at release. They reasoned that SWTOR offers more to players than WoW did at release, their comparisons are often driven towards saying, "yeah - SWTOR did this wrong at release, but WoW did it worse when it was first released." The argument relies on the idea that developers cannot compete with 10 years of ongoing development, that features and content in WoW now was developed over 10 years. This is of course all rubbish, and Blizzard seems to get that: "WoW has had close to ten years of development, so you're not competing with brown-box WoW," explained Brack. "You're competing with WoW today, which has a Dungeon Finder, now it has a Raid Finder, and soon will have scenarios. It's got all these other features for helping matchmaker and group and have battlegrounds and all this stuff that didn't exist on day one, but now it's hard to imagine the game without it. Going back and trying to form a group by talking in various party chats to get the group together in Star Wars feels very retro and very painful these days." Whilst the criticism is certainly in keep with Blizzard "post-competitor release PR machine", he's damn right. He couldn't be more right if he tried. I do not PvE... at all... aside from raids I run with my guild. Why? Because finding a group is so very tiresome, especially considering that in most MMOs today the feature to find a group easily is center stage. A lack of Dunegon Finder is a big thing, a big omission, something that should be in 1.2. We're not getting it in 1.2, that's obvious, and we'll get it at some point in the future, but it's such a big thing that SWTOR is half a game for not having it. That's a bit part however. 1.2 goes a long way to bringing SWTOR in line with modern MMOs, as opposed to being 10 steps behind them. Bioware obviously knows that they are competing with WoW now, not WoW at launch. 1.2 and 1.3 are likely to add in pretty much every major feature that WoW has on SWTOR, and we're likely to see more in the way of gameplay variety coming in the future. I'm not suggesting that Bioware should be trying to emulate WoW. I am saying that Bioware should be looking at WoW and other MMOs and seeing uniform features - like dungeon finders - and saying "yeah, that's something we should have had at launch, and something we should get into the game asap." And it was foolish of Bioware to release the game in the state it was in. Whilst it's certainly an accomplishment to have made SWTOR, it's also a testimony to the failures of the team. I'm hopeful - as are many others - that they've come to realise their folly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) in before closing. WOW equals medieval fantasy cr**. No thanks. BW should have looked at concepts of GW2, Archeage and The Secret World instead, not a ten year old MMO oldie with Pandas. Edited March 24, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asturias Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) in before closing. WOW equals medieval fanatsy crap. No thanks. Agree and WoW is handing out free 80's like candy. That tells me the big dog is scared of the new big kid on the block. Edited March 24, 2012 by Asturias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyraelium Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 in before closing. WOW equals medieval fanatsy crap. No thanks. Funny that the first post is always spam and doesn't read the OP. Completely agree with the assessment; this game's launch was lacking. People who are okay with it by comparing it to WoW's launch are backward thinkers. This game needed to launch with much more if it wanted to be the most successful MMO available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I've been saying the same thing since launch. Maybe Blizzard could hire me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilikaa Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Warcraft has had nearly ten years of development and is still crap. I have tried playing it 3 times over the years and could not stand it for more than a couple weeks. that said, let the horse rest in piece. Quit bringing up the TOR/wow comparisons. They are getting old and annoying. Edited March 24, 2012 by Kilikaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) BW seems to think like many posters, always the WoW comparisions. Why couldn't they come up with a complete relaunch, a real re-imagination of the MMO genre that fits the brand? Were 200.000.000$ not enough for coming up with own ideas? I had done it for less! Edited March 24, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediRaffa Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) And why should this htread be closed? This is a completely honest and civil discussion which is impacting the subs for SWTOR. This is something the devs need to hear. It doesnt have to be just about WoW. Its about any modern day MMO out on the market that hits opening day with at least some sort of LFG tool. This one did not and I can say first hand that I lost out on so much content because of it. With that said, I refuse to level an alt and will probably start over once all tools are implemented. Edited March 24, 2012 by JediRaffa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekkoclarky Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 WoW has better, more responsive combat. Friend gave me a 7 day pass and free 80, the combat is just so much better after playing SWTOR for so long. I still prefer SWTOR, I just wish the combat was smoother. Another thing that annoys me is the amount of dead servers and Biowares silence over it, free transfers/merges is a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezla Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 To be honest I don't understand their reluctance to introduce cross server LFG. SWTOR community was stillborn, it was never alive and is never going to get better than it is now. If they don't introduce LFG tool soon, community will still be dead, but they'll just piss more people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ravenhurst Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) And why should this htread be closed? This is a completely honest and civil discussion which is impacting the subs for SWTOR. This is something the devs need to hear. It doesnt have to be just about WoW. Its about any modern day MMO out on the market that hits opening day with at least some sort of LFG tool. This one did not and I can say first hand that I lost out on so much content necause of it. With that said, I refuse to level an alt and will probably start over once all tools are implemented. I see it coming because -wow is mentioned in the title -no room for constructive discussion, not centered on SWTOR...the usual statement I might be wrong, hope it stays open however Edited March 24, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediRaffa Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Another thing that annoys me is the amount of dead servers and Biowares silence over it, free transfers/merges is a must. that is a consequence of REP/IMP imbalance as well as the unbelievable amount of instancing. Both poisons to community and hence low populations on some servers. Solution = 1. remove factions - let lightside and darkside determine stance 2. lower instancing 3. open up server transfers / merge low pop servers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Moonshadow Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 that is a consequence of REP/IMP imbalance as well as the unbelievable amount of instancing. Both poisons to community and hence low populations on some servers. Solution = 1. remove factions - let lightside and darkside determine stance 2. lower instancing 3. open up server transfers / merge low pop servers Lightside and Darkside are a moral alignment, not your political stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediRaffa Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Lightside and Darkside are a moral alignment, not your political stance. yes I agree with you. i am saying that should not have been in the original design.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 If Blizzard "gets it" Why are they desperately scrambling to plug holes in their sinking IP? Why every time I log in I'm bored to tears? Why dose it not leave me with a feeling of satisfaction that TOR gives me? Why does everyone I know feel the exact same way???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Moonshadow Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 yes I agree with you. i am saying that should not have been in the original design.... Then you're about 50 years late on voicing that. It's been that way since A New Hope. The only thing we need is server merges and a LFG tool. I knew this was going to happen. Way before the game launched I predicted that we weren't going to need a ton of servers because I knew most of the players were just Warcraft squatters who were going to bail after the first month. No one listened to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestic_Jazz Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Geez people, the game has been out for like 3 months! Only ~100 days or so!!!!! When have people become so impatient? You all act like Bioware cannot continue to add stuff to the game through patches and expansions!!!!!! You all act like the game that was released back in December will be the FINAL product in the coming months and years! Edited March 24, 2012 by Majestic_Jazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Then you're about 50 years late on voicing that. It's been that way since A New Hope. The only thing we need is server merges and a LFG tool. I knew this was going to happen. Way before the game launched I predicted that we weren't going to need a ton of servers because I knew most of the players were just Warcraft squatters who were going to bail after the first month. No one listened to me. They didn't listen because you are wrong; I play on three different servers one of which is a EU server if you listen to the general chat hardly anyone is interested in Pokemon or Kung fu pandas. Server transfers are coming but I see a lot of the supposed dead servers loads increase over the past few weeks and still the vast majority of servers have either have a heavy or very heavy load during the nights and weekends. The biggest mistake BioWare made wasn't having too many servers it was posting server loads and how many people are in a area...folks tend to obsess over that more than anything. Edited March 24, 2012 by Jett-Rinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerodian Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Then you're about 50 years late on voicing that. It's been that way since A New Hope. The only thing we need is server merges and a LFG tool. I knew this was going to happen. Way before the game launched I predicted that we weren't going to need a ton of servers because I knew most of the players were just Warcraft squatters who were going to bail after the first month. No one listened to me. Another thing that's been around since ANH is defection. Han Solo, for instance, started life as an Imperial Navel officer before becoming a smuggler. They could have opted for the EQ2 approach. Start in one faction and through the course of play get the option to move to the other faction based on moral alignment. Never heard of a Jedi falling to the darkside and joining a galactic empire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekkoclarky Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) that is a consequence of REP/IMP imbalance as well as the unbelievable amount of instancing. Both poisons to community and hence low populations on some servers. Solution = 1. remove factions - let lightside and darkside determine stance 2. lower instancing 3. open up server transfers / merge low pop servers Nah, the only people to blame for dead servers is Bioware. At launch the caps for each server were stupidly low, and still are. It just proves how much faith Bioware have in the stability of their gane. The instancing is stupidly low as well... Another example they have no faith in the stability of their poorly optimised game. They opened far too many as well. A low pop wow server is busier than a standard server and a medium wow server is much busier than a heavy server. Total fail. Edited March 24, 2012 by Tekkoclarky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlander Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Warcraft has had nearly ten years of development and is still crap. I have tried playing it 3 times over the years and could not stand it for more than a couple weeks. that said, let the horse rest in piece. Quit bringing up the TOR/wow comparisons. They are getting old and annoying. I don't think this game unless they do something big will even last 2 years before going FTP let alone 10. WOW still is not FTP and for the most part still running strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 If Blizzard "got" it, they would release more then 2 major patches per 2 year expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matteis Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I just tried logging into WoW for the first time in over a year. It is so OLD and terrible looking that I really can't even stare at the screen for long. I got a free copy of Cata and thought I'd give it a go but it only made me want to play TOR. Then when I logged into TOR, I craved an open world to explore like WoW's. I'm so torn, it's quite frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKMaster Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Funny that the first post is always spam and doesn't read the OP. Completely agree with the assessment; this game's launch was lacking. People who are okay with it by comparing it to WoW's launch are backward thinkers. This game needed to launch with much more if it wanted to be the most successful MMO available. Hey ...it was launched with MUCH MORE, SWG, WoW, CoH, LotR, AoC all were months of headaches at launch, other than a few bugs that were blown out of porportion by the vocal minority, TOR's lauch is now the benchmark. Only Rift can even compare to launch success. Edited March 26, 2012 by Paralassa rude/content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 wow has lost subs for the last 4 quarters, they laid off 600 emplyees a few weeks ago, thier stock has been downgraded, yep the old game is just that old, it made tons of money and is still making money, I give wow a couple more years it will be free to play, can't be number 1 for ever in fact they are no longer number one, some Moba game, League of legends or something like that has 11.4 million now.. to wow's 10.3 million.. I really could care less about wow or what happens to it, to me it was the worst mmo I ever played, bored me to tears.. I don't compare TOR to wow, two different games, two different theme parks, like sea word to disney world. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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