Is sorcerer dead for pvp ?Some thoughts...

[PolakToma]

Agreed 100%.

 

As I said in other posts, we got nerfed simply because we were on the radar. We attracted too much attention, others classes hated us cause we were overpopulated. Then they make up the 'OP' excuse, everyone runs with it, and we get nerfed to hell.

 

Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration, but that's the general story imo. They could have given us a more 'fair' nerf. At the very LEAST a boost to 31-point trees.

 

But all they have done is simply kill the most viable spec, while leaving the other (sub-par specs) just as they were. Perhaps a slight DPS boost to pure Madness (+20% on Crushing Darkness thru Wrath), but that's it.

 

Where's the love man.

 

Agree 100%^

[PolakToma]

Also the Sages are way better imo at DPS as they are stealthy about it. Getting hit by rocks can be hard to tell in combat where they are coming from, as opposed to Lightning which you can see from point A to point B plain as day as well as our Force Storm channel which screams HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT ME as opposed to Sage Earthquake where is that guy casting!?

[Elhazzared]

Soa doesn't deals that much damage even with that. To give you the simplest example, when my guild does EV, more than half the time I'm DPSing Soa, the other healer (more geared than me) can heal the party alone, save rare cases with a little extra is needed.

The first boss, keeps hitting hard and on multiple targets, he doesn't mainly stays on one, one healer is not enough and i'm not refering to the attack that hits everyone. the second boss deals lots of damage and keeps throwing everyone in the lava, one healer can't keep up with it all.

 

You must be a rarecase healer who in a fight NEVER gets targeted by bosses to always be at 100% when you use consuption. I rarelly am at 100% life. Sure i'm usually above 75% but every now and then the boss will throw something at a healer and if you're unlucky, you get hit for some 10K cause yes, they can doo that with pretty much the strong attacks without enrage. now couple that with other hits you receive during the fight, couple it with one consuption every rotation of spells and tell me how do you expect to stay alive. I know if I used consuption losing life in every time I do it. I'd die in almost every boss.

[Morngwath]

First of, I believe you will use Consumption less often due to the 30% force cost reduction of DI. Second, no the 1st boss only does a front AoE (only tank will take that), the little red bomb that hits for about 5-6k most is the only damage besides the rockets you won't be able to avoid. And you should not be targeted by the bomb often since you shouldn't be 2nd in threat list. The little red circle you just run out off, you know^^.

2nd boss only does moderate damage to the tank, if the melees know when to back off for his jump. The lava can easily be healed with the AoE heal.

And talking Soa (Hardmode not the faceroll easy normal mode), i doubt that you will have time for much dps in the 2nd phase. Your're gonna be busy keeping the ball lightning runners up so they won't die when they get picked up by the whirlwind immidiately after it.

And yes, of course I will get some unintended damage due to making stupid mistakes or such. But you should still be able to get yourself up to 100% easily to use consumption.

I think a lot of your problems with healing derive from the fact, that your party is taking damage they could avoid.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Morngwath

[Elhazzared]

It is true that you'll be spending less on DI both because it takes longer to cast and because it becomes a little bit cheaper... But you're also healing a lot less and in the end, you'll still burn it all pretty quick. Although having to actually change the rotation I do of the spells really bothers me but meh, if I only had to change rotations without any penalties, that would have been the lesser of evils. Anyway 5 or 6K it's a third of my healt and about not being targeted that often, you're wrong, the normal attacks and the swipe, those are on tank, the missile or bombs they are picked at random. There was a time I didn't got one hit, there was a time I got picked more than half the times he used the abillity. At any rate in average you should be picked 2 or 3 times by it.

 

The second boss, AoE heals help the party but the boss deals so much freaking damage and moving from island to island there is always people getting there with half life or less. Plus the boss hits pretty damn hard on the tanks. You really can't solo heal it, forget it. With 2 healers, yeah, doable, solo healer, sorry but from what i see it can't be done.

 

Soa easy mode or hard mode, the difference is not that huge in fact, at least if you consider the difference of gear you're supposed to have in one and the others. wirlwind doesn't hits that hard, ball lightning hurts a little bit, but it's only problematic if the same member keeps being targeted and is always so close he can't run away from them. other than that you can flee from the lightning balls and not take damage from most of them.

 

My group don't actually take unnecessary damage. We're pretty much doing it as close to perfect as it can be... Sure sometimes someone ****s up, but we're all human. But that doesn't happens often. the only possible way to keep up with consumption that i can think off the bat is AoE heal, keep in it and use it without fear, but long cast, usually the good place to land a AoE heal is exactly not where i'm standing and even if it allows me to use consumption once or twice before it runs it's course. the force cost for it is so damn high that it's likelly hardly efficient. Most likelly, i'll just end up having docked my healer for a long time until BW decides that yes, they really did a bad mistake there. but of course, that will only happen when they look at statistics and see that all of a sudden, raids droped down like crazy cause people aren't being able to do it or doing it take a lot more eforth, time and money (for repairs medpaks and stims in case you don't have rataka ones) than it's worth.

[Darkzided]

i really dont think you can 1heal an 8man hm ev group at soa?!??!!

 

1 of 3 thing may happen:

mind trap

the orb

the random guy who gets thrown in the air.

 

maybe its a random success rate that you can 1sorc heal an 8man ev if not 1 of those 3 things happen.

 

back to topic...

 

i know sorcs suck in pvp even right now. Im nearly valor rank 80 and im telling you sorcs has low or very low win rate against 1v1 any class. But since the official release of the 1.2 nerf iv been trying out pure madness build and i think its fine. still can do 300k dmg per wz with it and can survive better vs melee classes compared to a 13/28 hybrid. in fact can win 50-50 against bm maras. now iv heard they are also gonna buff alacrity stat which will lessen global cds so pure madness might work in pvp come 1.2 patch (fingers crossed and very hopeful).

 

if not its ok there are lots of games this year waiting for its release d3, gw2, terra and mop beta is up might go back in there since they are buffing my warlock

[Morngwath]

So the 5-6k hit from the bomb is too much damage but the ball lightnings for 11k+ is just a "little" damage? My math must be wrong it seems...

 

And you really must do something wrong, if you arrive on the next platform with only 50% heal, sorry.

[Elhazzared]

Erm, I've been hit by those lightning balls before and took less damage than the missile blasts from the first boss... In fact I do remember once and just once taking a great deal of life from one, but that was a one time thing I simply assumed as a bug. Most times those hit me for lik 3K or so. i don't see where the 11K is coming from. At any rate those are still avoidable 90% of the times. exceptiong being when they spawn next to you.

 

Jumping plataforms? Eventually all stack to heal till near max health? I dunno know how you do it, but, that's pretty much the basic way to do it. At any rate I'm not saying that it should be done with just one healer but that from all EV encounters that is the one closer to be done with one healer.

 

At any rate and back on topic, doesn't maters really. just do the math, no tank + light armor = getting ganged up on for an easy kill. Especially if you are a healer. I'd actually like to see BW give healers a way to play their roles in PVP which is staying there providing healing for the party without being able to be ganged up on.

[Morngwath]

Could it be that your're talking Normal mode? Cause the ball lightning will hit me for about 50-60% of my life with bubble up in Hard Mode..

[Elhazzared]

At the moment yes, most of us are not geared up enough to do HM, but HM is not that harder if you have the party geared up. ormal mode you should have a couple columi pieces for it, hard is about full columi so you have much more life, and take less damage... Sure it will still hit harder (speaking of percentages) than normal mode but not thath harder! Least some of us already did hard modes of it and that's what I gather but i can't speak of experience on that.

[Gethsemane]

almost every class is crying about some nerf or other incoming in the 1.2 patch? it makes you wonder, that maybe the playing field might be alot more level and consistent when 1.2 goes live? what with ALL these class changes...

 

I mean, do you really think Bioware doesn't consult a pile of metrics before making such sweeping changes to so many classes...

 

My own main is getting some serious nerfage and at first i was like 'omg here we go' nerfbat of drama typical mmo nonsense. However, after taking the time to understand the plethora of changes to other classes, I'm no way near as worried that my chosen main will be deemed pointless and gimped in 1.2.....worth taking that into consideration.

[Morngwath]

At the moment yes, most of us are not geared up enough to do HM, but HM is not that harder if you have the party geared up. ormal mode you should have a couple columi pieces for it, hard is about full columi so you have much more life, and take less damage... Sure it will still hit harder (speaking of percentages) than normal mode but not thath harder! Least some of us already did hard modes of it and that's what I gather but i can't speak of experience on that.

 

Ok, that explains a lot Yes, generally your're right when you say that HM is just a little more damage. But Soa is a little off there. He himself is just like normal, but instead of one ball, 2 will spawn and they hit way harder than on normal. One tick from them is about 3k and exploding on you is about 11k. I know in normal mode you barely notice them. In hard, they are the ones making it difficult.

[Elhazzared]

almost every class is crying about some nerf or other incoming in the 1.2 patch? it makes you wonder, that maybe the playing field might be alot more level and consistent when 1.2 goes live? what with ALL these class changes...

 

I mean, do you really think Bioware doesn't consult a pile of metrics before making such sweeping changes to so many classes...

 

My own main is getting some serious nerfage and at first i was like 'omg here we go' nerfbat of drama typical mmo nonsense. However, after taking the time to understand the plethora of changes to other classes, I'm no way near as worried that my chosen main will be deemed pointless and gimped in 1.2.....worth taking that into consideration.

 

I am guessing you don't really play a sorcerer? I am also guessing you're much more of a PVP person than a PVE? If yes to both, then yeah, you don't really have to get worried, not that much anyway. However if you actually like to PVE quite a bit, when 1.2 comes around, be understanding with your sorcerer healers when they let you die over and over and over again. It's just going to be normal to heal a lot less and to be out of force to heal anyone.

 

As a side note, I think most of us here already been to many MMOs to speak from experience. Companies don't know what the hell they are doing when they change classes way of working. Usually it's either nerfed till hell freezes over or overpowered to the point of not being funny. Interesting how they usually send things out balanced and then they just start destroying the balance.

[Hamatula]

its sorc healing pvp that is the problem.

[Elhazzared]

Is it? Please explain me how. A sorcerer healer survivabillity in PVP is about 5 seconds from the moment he is seen. That's 3 second for them to switch target to you and get close enough, another 2 seconds DPS from 4 or 5 people.

[Scrubtastic]

It's all the baddies that cried about sorc that got us nerf so hard. I'm surprise smugglers and bounty hunters are crying about getting nerf. As a healer with 11.50% dmg reduction from my expertise, I get destroyed by good smugglers who kill me in less than 10 seconds and never let me pull off a cast heal. I'll probably run out of force in most of the fights for the new ops in NM mode if it's anything like what some of the fights are now.

[Fireswraith]

Yeah, we used to have the best healing, we had our niche; not anymore though. Our DPS has always been the lowest between snipers, mercs, marauders, and assassins. The only reason we can crunch out 400k+ damage in warzones is because of affliction and our aoes, not that we are hitting like Superman. Now in 1.2 it's even worse for us.

 

Since my DPS in 1.2 is going to suck worse than now, I might try a hybrid of healing and madness and try going more of a dmg/support route. Atleast I'll be able to heal decently well.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Fireswraith

[Adramelk]

At the moment yes, most of us are not geared up enough to do HM, but HM is not that harder if you have the party geared up. ormal mode you should have a couple columi pieces for it, hard is about full columi so you have much more life, and take less damage... Sure it will still hit harder (speaking of percentages) than normal mode but not thath harder! Least some of us already did hard modes of it and that's what I gather but i can't speak of experience on that.

 

This is off-topic, but those ball lightnings in hard mode SOA do quite more damage than I think you're aware of. Honestly, beating SOA in HM all comes down to whether you can manage those ball lightnings. THAT'S IT! They can do 12-15k dmg on impact, and even their tick dmg does 1-2k. Trust me, it's that much harder. It doesn't scale normal -> HM like you're thinking. You've been forewarned...

[Darth_Aksestos]

Guys please... I made this topic about PVP and sorcerer , to put some thoughts as well as to some other sorc players to put some thoughts , not to talk about SOA strategies...

But if u consider a healer sorc with nerf , we'll they'll have some pretty hard time to heal now...

[Nerdock]

*** **** you're a smart man. I've been saying this since release. SO glad someone else has caught onto this.

 

agreed 100%

[warultima]

It feels amazing strange that the lowest armored class out of all ACs also has the lowest burst dps capability of the entire game of SWTOR across all advance classes.

 

PvP-wise I guess its BW's way to tell you "Lern2useUrccThatsWhyWeGaveUThose".

So a proper 1.2 DPS sorc playstyle should be dot dot dot run away dot dot dot CC run away dot dot dot.

 

Pure lightning playstyle will be weak nuke weak nuke very weak nuke CC run away moderate weak nuke, weak nuke, decently weak nuke, CC run away and repeat.

 

Burst and Sorc should no longer be put in same sentence, Healing OR DPS.

[Nerdock]

 

PvP-wise I guess its BW's way to tell you "Lern2useUrccThatsWhyWeGaveUThose".

 

I should ask bioware what CC they'd be referring to in that case. since we have 2 total (1 of which is 2 sec. casted) and operatives have 4 instant cc; total. not only that but 100% of classes have a) an instant stun break, b) resolve bars.

 

but hey, what do i know. a 3 second blind that i need to waste 17 points on is imba. amirite?

[_Minmaxer_]

I should ask bioware what CC they'd be referring to in that case. since we have 2 total (1 of which is 2 sec. casted) and operatives have 4 instant cc; total. not only that but 100% of classes have a) an instant stun break, b) resolve bars.

 

but hey, what do i know. a 3 second blind that i need to waste 17 points on is imba. amirite?

 

If you are pvping without an instant whirlwind you are simply doing it wrong.

[broganthomas]

No only weak players will leave this class because those types of players only want to play class that give them the advantage... So they will go and play sentinel.

[fungihoujo]

What about asking BW to stop nerfing Sage/Sorc DPS but nerf your incredibily handy CCs? They might rethink you know.

 

Sure, nerf our one stun and one single target mez on an activation time and one aoe knockback that has a delay animation to be in line with all the other classes.

 

Bring those in line with what the average other class has, and give us some good DPS in return- and I'd be glad. Heck, make one of the specs a CC spec for those who love it- but at least give us one burst spec.