The Myth of the SW:ToR Story; No it can't support an MMO.

[Reico]

Im not mad at them but it is what it is. Complete the story, PvP for a bit, clear the raids in like 3 weeks, unsub until next content patch/expansion or level alts if that is your thing.

 

Hey now, no reason to bash WoW.

 

Totally uncalled for.

[Kaphik]

The biggest problem with basing the game entirely around story is that you don't need to even buy the game, nevermind subscribe to see the story. Light side, dark side and RP versions of all other class stories are on youtube and when the choice is watching that or doing NS and Taris for what feels like the 1000th time its an easy choice.

 

You can also find the end to just about every single other game out there as well. How does that stop you from playing the game?

[Nexdine]

I think it works fine as it is. The problem may be the fairly abrupt shift at the end when you reach "intermission" at level 50... you have to go do different things than what you've been doing until then.

 

But if there's one thing I would have wished for it would have been the ability to make either right or wrong choices in conversation. At the moment what you choose for your character to say is meaningless for the outcome, with the exception of dark/lightside points and companion affection. In fact, I usually pick my answers based on what will get me companion affection for the companion I have, which further steers my choices into a non-choice.

 

But in spite of that this is the first MMO that has gripped me in quite a while, and that is 100% due to the story and the voice acting of everything. It may be that I'll quit it once I get the story done but on the other hand... I'll be busy a while longer with that, and sooner or later we'll get 10 more levels worth, and probably 10 more after that.

[CharleyDanger]

I tired to play WOW 3 times and never could get past lvl 20. I could not get past the pumpkin picking because I would always think "Whats the *********** point of this lol"

 

When I play SWTOR I still pick pumpkins (shut down generators) but its covered in story. I never think to my self "Whats the *********** point of this" So SWOTORs story allowed to get past lvl 20 and see how brilliant MMOs really are

 

With that said, 3 months from later, Im done with the story. I want endgame content damn it.

 

In Biowares defense, the game is only 3 months old and we are getting a new FP and Operation. If thats the pace they keep, I dont think endgame content will be a problem. An annual expansion would be nice as well.

[Eldrenath]

Seriously dude, get a clue. The basis of this game is a linear single player RPG with coop.

...

Im not mad at them but it is what it is. Complete the story, PvP for a bit, clear the raids in like 3 weeks, unsub until next content patch/expansion or level alts if that is your thing.

 

Ok, I don't get this constant "TOR is not an MMO, it's a single player game" BS. It's a LOT like OTHER MMOs. Most people solo to level cap, then group for endgame content. I levelled several toons to level cap in LoTRO, AoC, and Rift. And guess what? In ALL of those games, most people soloed to level cap, then grouped. The problem is NOT with MMO devs, it's with players: very many have the attitude of racing to level cap because there is the accepted wisdom that the game doesn't start until end game. So people level solo, CHOOSE not to group, and skip heroics and flashpoints. Sure, they could give better incentives to group, like awesome rewards for FPs and heroics, but guess what would happen then? INCESSANT whining about how if they want the best stuff, people are "forced" to group, and that everything in every game ever should always at all times be available to all players whether solo or in group.

 

Of course, there are other elements to an MMO. Economy for one. Yes, the TOR GTN is...not so great. But I still succesfully sell items regularly on the GTN, and make a tidy profit. Searching it could definitely be improved, I must admit. And apparently it is improved in 1.2.

 

As for clearing the raids in 3 weeks, BW has admitted that the ops were much easier than they originally intended them to be, and ops are going to be made much, much harder. However, as it currently stands now, they are easier than they should be, I'll grant you that.

 

TLDR: TOR is NOT a single player game. Just like every OTHER MMO, players CHOOSE to skip group content, especially when levelling.

[Goretzu]

Maybe I should have put non pen and paper in bold.

 

Fixed.

 

Oops, only something like NWN or Minecraft on a private server then.

 

 

What video game has a GM?

 

NWN had (and probably still has) loads.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Goretzu

[NorrinRaddd]

At the moment "story" is supporting the entire game. And I don't mean in a good way.

 

"Endgame" and the state its in is barely ever mentioned on podcasts or by my friends. It's a painful and embarrassing subject like so many others we just don't want to mention.

 

At the moment the only thing I really do "endgame" is alt's. I level through for class story then more or less dump them, much like a discarded comic.

 

I'm just churning out alts as I go through BW's mmo story. But something is missing. I don't know if BW haven't left enough room for other peoples stories or what but this mmo is definitely starting to lack that certain something that makes mmo's a pleasure.

 

After playing Swtor since launch my pleasure meter is at an all time low and I've filled my plate with lashings of story.

 

Who else is already skipping story on their 15th alt?

 

Are we really gona argue about this...If you dont have a story then whats the point of playn a game at all?

[Goretzu]

How is that any different/worse than other MMOs though?

 

Sorry, I just don't see the problem. Sure, there are repeats but there are in other games as well, not vocalised but textual. So I'm mystified why people are upset because they are vocalised here...I mean, we all know how to use the spacebar. No different (using spacebar) than slamming whatever key it was in any other MMO that gave out text quests dialogs.

 

It's not really, although with text it's easy to change the dialogue.

 

Like I said I never really noticed it until the later bonus quest series and especially Ilum quests (as I said I'd guess this is where development continued after voicing was done), it was ended up with about 10 canned phrases being repeated again and again. Even for text dialogue choices that had quite long and intricate descriptions.

 

But that's the point if there's no difference then voice acting has no benifit (in fact IMO it actually gets more annoying to hear the same canned speech again and again and again).

 

 

 

 

Which is an issue SWTOR is going to hit with new content, either than can bring back voice actors to record new stuff (time consuming and expensive) or they can use canned stuff they already have which just makes it sound..... well... like what it is, canned speech being replayed and replayed.

[-Fritz-]

i havent logged on in about a week now myself.

 

the game is fun in some ways, but they appear to be taking the stand-point of you need to be a no-lifer to see what should be standard game features with the legacy junk and all of that.

 

on top of that i feel like im playing a single player game since ive never grouped with anyone.

 

 

 

i really dont understand the people who keep posting about how "BW has these awesome stories!!"

 

the stories are generally the same regurgitated plots over and over with new character face plastered on top.

 

personally i mash space bar like its my job when people start talking.

 

 

 

 

i need a more casual based game for my life and im thinking console system until D3

[Majestic_Jazz]

Dont play a story driven MMO if you dont like the story. What do you want them to do, remove the story part of the game? Without VO I would be following a lot less of the story so I think it is a great addition to the game.

 

You dont like the game than dont play it. If everyone would agree with you there would be a lot less subs. Unless you are lying and you are still playing the game of course.

 

 

100% Agreed

 

That is like playing GTA V and complaining that the game is "too open" and would have been better if it had a linear aspect to it like Uncharted.

 

That is like playing Gran Turismo or Forza and complaining that the games put too much emphasis on car mechanics and upgrading/buying cars instead of pure racing.

 

------------------------

 

You knew what you were getting into with SWTOR. Never was SWTOR marketed as a return to classic MMO mechanics. Never was it marketed as your grandfather's MMO where you had to group just to complete simple quest. No, Star Wars: The Old Republic was marketed as a story-driven MMO with cinematic story-telling [including full VO].

 

I love SWTOR for that and many do as well. If you don't well, there is always World of Warcraft which is getting the Mist of the Pandora expansion pack. If WoW isn't your style, then there is Guild Wars 2 coming out this year, a lot of people are into that, so you might want to check that out.

 

In the meantime, SWTOR will continue to be that "hybrid" MMO that blends MMO elements with single player RPG elements [think Mass Effect or Dragon Age].

 

Again, if this isn't for you, then move on. No need to be a Debbie Downer for those who do enjoy the game like myself.

[Goretzu]

 

Again, if this isn't for you, then move on. No need to be a Debbie Downer for those who do enjoy the game like myself.

 

 

 

 

 

SWTOR has flaws, if they don't fix em it could end up like Warhammer Online.

 

If they do fix them the sky can be the limit.

 

Saying people should stick their head in the sand or leave helps no one, you, me, them, or the game itself.

[Majestic_Jazz]

Ok, I don't get this constant "TOR is not an MMO, it's a single player game" BS. It's a LOT like OTHER MMOs. Most people solo to level cap, then group for endgame content. I levelled several toons to level cap in LoTRO, AoC, and Rift. And guess what? In ALL of those games, most people soloed to level cap, then grouped.

 

Well said!

 

 

SWTOR is no different from many other MMOs, hell, take WoW for example. That can be solo'd from 1 to 85 but nobody complains that WoW is just a single player RPG!

 

The meat is that unlike WoW and other MMOs, SWTOR has dialog options, fully VO'd cast, and cinematic storytelling.....ALL aspects that you commonly expect to see in today's RPGs such as The Witcher, Deus Ex, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age. You don't associate these elements with the traditional MMO so when these "single player RPG" features are added to the MMO realm, many MMO traditionalist are confused and thus label SWTOR as a wanna be MMO because it has too many single player features.

 

Take the interactive dialog out, take out the cinematics, and take out the VOs and replace it ALL with text, then I bet NOBODY would be making these "SWTOR is just a single player game with co-op" claims.

[da_krall]

Actually they took the RPG out, you dont roleplay and create your character, you are told a story, Bioware claims that it is my story but it is not, its Biowares story.

 

+1 this is the biggest problem for me. You feel like you are on a movie set, being directed by the film crew, told what to say, think what to think. Not that you are in a movie in control of your own actions and so you dont really build a connection to your character.

[Midichlorien]

SWTOR has flaws, if they don't fix em it could end up like Warhammer Online.

 

If they do fix them the sky can be the limit.

 

Saying people should stick their head in the sand or leave helps no one, you, me, them, or the game itself.

 

The current situation summarized in a few sentences. Just true.

[Orizuru]

At the moment "story" is supporting the entire game. And I don't mean in a good way.

 

"Endgame" and the state its in is barely ever mentioned on podcasts or by my friends. It's a painful and embarrassing subject like so many others we just don't want to mention.

 

At the moment the only thing I really do "endgame" is alt's. I level through for class story then more or less dump them, much like a discarded comic.

 

I'm just churning out alts as I go through BW's mmo story. But something is missing. I don't know if BW haven't left enough room for other peoples stories or what but this mmo is definitely starting to lack that certain something that makes mmo's a pleasure.

 

After playing Swtor since launch my pleasure meter is at an all time low and I've filled my plate with lashings of story.

 

Who else is already skipping story on their 15th alt?

 

Have you even tried playing end-game content yourself or are you going entirely from what you read online and hear from other players?

 

I won't say that it's been implemented perfectly, but there are a great many players who are thoroughly enjoying it on a daily basis.

[Majestic_Jazz]

SWTOR has flaws, if they don't fix em it could end up like Warhammer Online.

 

 

Name one MMO that has never had flaws 3 months into it's life.

 

 

+1 this is the biggest problem for me. You feel like you are on a movie set, being directed by the film crew, told what to say, think what to think. Not that you are in a movie in control of your own actions and so you dont really build a connection to your character.

 

I don't see how this is different from many other MMOs that "claim" to have a story. The only difference between SWTOR and say....WoW is that SWTOR uses a fully VO'd cast and WoW just uses text. Classes/factions in WoW still has a story but it isn't very "obvious" because it is ALL text based. You don't have people speaking at you and your character has no voice and thus does not speak to others. Also a lot of people don't even read the text story/lore, they just do the quest to level so it gives them this "illusion" that they are playing their own character's story when in fact, they are playing Blizzard's story that was written for that class/faction. Again, you just don't see it because it is text based which makes it easier to ignore.

 

With SWTOR it is VO'd, it has cutscenes, it has dialog choices. Like Blizzard, you are playing a class/faction story that Bioware wrote but UNLIKE Blizzard/WoW, you can't really ignore it because it is more "in your face". So I will give you that, but to sit there and act like you are creating your own class story in WoW is just crazy. It is just that the way it is told makes it easier to ignore or not notice.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Majestic_Jazz

[tekkamansoul]

Actually they took the RPG out, you dont roleplay and create your character, you are told a story, Bioware claims that it is my story but it is not, its Biowares story.

 

PnP games exist for people like you.

[tekkamansoul]

+1 this is the biggest problem for me. You feel like you are on a movie set, being directed by the film crew, told what to say, think what to think. Not that you are in a movie in control of your own actions and so you dont really build a connection to your character.

 

I can't disagree more with this statement. Almost every single alt I've created I've imagined his or her own backstory in my head, and I have even had enough "insight" to write a couple short stories about them.

 

If Bioware has done this, then ***********, job well done. Just because you feel "impersonal" doesn't mean anything. I've felt a lot more connection with my characters in this game than any other MMO.

[Suomipoika]

At the moment "story" is supporting the entire game. And I don't mean in a good way.

 

"Endgame" and the state its in is barely ever mentioned on podcasts or by my friends. It's a painful and embarrassing subject like so many others we just don't want to mention.

 

At the moment the only thing I really do "endgame" is alt's. I level through for class story then more or less dump them, much like a discarded comic.

 

I'm just churning out alts as I go through BW's mmo story. But something is missing. I don't know if BW haven't left enough room for other peoples stories or what but this mmo is definitely starting to lack that certain something that makes mmo's a pleasure.

 

After playing Swtor since launch my pleasure meter is at an all time low and I've filled my plate with lashings of story.

 

Who else is already skipping story on their 15th alt?

 

Let me quote 2 things Ive red here on forum and stuck to my head.

First is prelaunch.

"I wonder if this story is gonna get in the way of my gaming?"

 

Second is more recent.

"Seems the best they could do was a KOTOR with a chat box."

 

Those summed it up for me.

[Goretzu]

Have you even tried playing end-game content yourself or are you going entirely from what you read online and hear from other players?

 

I won't say that it's been implemented perfectly, but there are a great many players who are thoroughly enjoying it on a daily basis.

 

 

I dunno about that.

 

It's dailies (initially useful, but *blurg* boring past a certain point and pointless past a certain gear/money point)

 

It's PvP (all instanced and usually Hutball - a game of TFC is probably more fun) and money will be nerfed from this in 1.2.

 

It's a very small amount of raiding (if that's your cup of tea)

 

It's very bad RvR (well sort of..... and Ilum is being moth-balled with 1.2 for who knows how long).

 

And lastly it's alting (which is very nice initally, but the same quests again and again get to you eventually).

 

 

 

 

None of that is especially engaging (compare to intial levelling), although equally none of that is much different to many MMORPG, just a bit more stunted than most (although removing and basically giving up on RvR is an appalling decision by Bioware IMO).

Edited March 22, 2012 by Goretzu

[Cernow]

They've done a very clever job of writing the stories in such a way that the player FEELS they are part of the storyline and has a choice. But actually it's all a sham and there's very little real consequence to your choices.

 

The story will progress pretty much identically regardless of what choices you make. The choices of who lives and who dies along the way are mostly just cosmetic. The same story events happen regardless. There's no branching, no forking. The only difference is that you will gain LS or DS points accordingly and will get a different email

 

Originally I thought the emails you get during your class quest were a nice touch. Well, they ARE a nice touch. But what I didn't expect is that they are pretty much the ONLY direct consequences of your actions and choices during the class storyline, other than the odd title. All the choices you make essentially just change what emails you get. Even the companion romances eventually fizzle out to a few emails sent to you with gifts before drying up entirely.

 

It can be summed up thus:

 

Storyline choices = different email in your inbox.

 

So, not much of an interactive story after all.

[Suomipoika]

Name one MMO that has never had flaws 3 months into it's life.

 

Could name you lots of MMO's that didnt last much longer?! Want me to?

[Shinobivirus]

For me it's all about the story. I need something substantial between kill 20 X, gather 30 Y.

[tekkamansoul]

The story will progress pretty much identically regardless of what choices you make. The choices of who lives and who dies along the way are mostly just cosmetic. The same story events happen regardless. There's no branching, no forking. The only difference is that you will gain LS or DS points accordingly and will get a different email

 

The problem is that you want a definable CHANGE in your *gameplay* experience just because of the *roleplaying* choices that you make. At the end of the day SWTOR is an MMO, so splitting up characters across the galaxy because of their story area choices is a very very bad idea from a game design perspective. If you make a choice that alters your gameplay enough so that people who chose the other choice can no longer group with you, well, mission failed.

 

What you want is a single player RPG. Or pen and paper. Or to write a novel.

[Majestic_Jazz]

 

It can be summed up thus:

 

Storyline choices = different email in your inbox.

 

So, not much of an interactive story after all.

 

100% Disagree!

 

I played a Trooper Vanguard. Even though the game's story essentially ends the same no matter that decisions I make, it is the journey that takes a different meaning.

 

I could A: Play the honorable soldier who does everything by the book and never stray away from that. I can be very helpful and respectful to anyone and everyone around me and I can make decisions that fall along those lines.

 

OR

 

I could B: Play the do whatever it takes type soldier. If I have to kill 100 innocents to save 10000 innocents then I'll do it. If I have to go underground and take money on the side for my deeds then I'll do it. If I have to break a few rules to get the job done.....then I'll do it. The ending will ultimately be the same as Trooper A. but it is the journey which got me there that will be different.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

This is no different from many other RPGs with choice such as Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Dragon Age, or even KOTOR. All 3 of those games essentially lead you to the same end no matter what you choices, but it really isn't about the end, but rather about your journey.

 

I am still playing Eidos Montreal's story in Deus Ex: Human Revolution, but my Adam Jenson would be totally different from the way another person plays Adam Jenson and that is what makes the difference.