1.2 nerfs concealment aain

[Dampiel]

Sad thing is :

 

All the classes get nerfed by -3% critical chance.

 

All classes BUT operative gets a free +5% critical buff (from legacy) HURRA BW, more dumb ideas?

 

I hadnt thought of this... now im pretty upset

[Fallerup]

Backstab now has a 12-second cooldown and deals approximately 5% more damage. 5% for 25% longer cd

 

Flanking is a new 1-point skill located in Tier 3 of the skill tree. It reduces the Energy cost of Backstab by 5. used to be free

 

Laceration now costs 10 Energy (down from 15) and deals approximately 10% less damage.

dosent really need explanation.

 

Waylay now increases the damage dealt by Backstab. It is now located in Tier 5 of the skill tree and requires Flanking might be a savior dont count on it woul need 20% just to make up for cd nerf

 

Culling has been redesigned and is now a 2-point skill. It no longer increases damage dealt to poisoned targets, but increases the Energy gained by Stim Boost and the damage dealt by Laceration and Collateral Strike. needs 10% just to make up for 10% nerf

 

Lethality now increases critical chance by 1% per point. was 2 per point

 

Razor Edge now increases Shiv damage by 4% per point. was 5%

are ops reall hated or what

 

lethality is till useless just more so now hope you like to heal

 

yes they are, they are hated by everyone, except those that play them. The nerf is needed for the sake of PvP. No more 3. second kills for you. 3 cheers for Bioware

[Ryemfoh]

Sad thing is :

 

All the classes get nerfed by -3% critical chance.

 

All classes BUT operative gets a free +5% critical buff (from legacy) HURRA BW, more dumb ideas?

 

This makes absolutely no difference in PVE where they would have had the 5% buff anyway ... and even in PVP if you bother to hit your buff button they had it too.

 

Operatives need to stop claiming that blanket stat nerfs apply to them more than others - this is pure fantasy.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Ryemfoh

[MaglorArcanist]

yes they are, they are hated by everyone, except those that play them. The nerf is needed for the sake of PvP. No more 3. second kills for you. 3 cheers for Bioware

 

If you after all nerfs still killed in 3 seconds... you know you have pvp gear? Orange items with green mods aren't your friends.

[Fallerup]

If you after all nerfs still killed in 3 seconds... you know you have pvp gear? Orange items with green mods aren't your friends.

 

I wear champion gear and I get killed in 3-5 seconds if an operative/scoundrel jumps me

[Bocherel]

This makes absolutely no difference in PVE where they would have had the 5% buff anyway ... and even in PVP if you bother to hit your buff button they had it too.

 

Operatives need to stop claiming that blanket stat nerfs apply to them more than others - this is pure fantasy.

I disregard pve, in pvp you are rarely buffed after the start of the match especially since there is rarely an operative in the group.

 

You need to wake up there, people wont even need to bring an op to get that buff anymore.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Bocherel

[Ryemfoh]

I disregard pve, in pvp you are rarely buffed after the start of the match especially since there is rarely an operative in the group.

 

You need to wake up there, people wont even need to bring an op to get that buff anymore.

 

If you honestly believe that the only reason you are effective in PVP (since you disregard PVE) is because of your crit buff ... which you claim most people don't get after the start of the match anyway ... then why do you bother playing an Operative at all?

 

If you're thinking about solo play, I would much rather have 5% more cunning from the Inq buff than 5% crit ... guess what - now we can get it!

 

ALL classes will have access to ALL other class buffs via the Legacy system. Crit through talents has been tweaked on ALL classes (possibly to adjust for "underlying" crit changes)

 

How are Operatives uniquely disadvantaged by this?

[Bocherel]

If you honestly believe that the only reason you are effective in PVP (since you disregard PVE) is because of your crit buff ... which you claim most people don't get after the start of the match anyway ... then why do you bother playing an Operative at all?

 

If you're thinking about solo play, I would much rather have 5% more cunning from the Inq buff than 5% crit ... guess what - now we can get it!

 

ALL classes will have access to ALL other class buffs via the Legacy system. Crit through talents has been tweaked on ALL classes (possibly to adjust for "underlying" crit changes)

 

How are Operatives uniquely disadvantaged by this?

 

What? You re reaching too far in the argument, never said I wasnt effective, and I play op because it is fun, i got other hl and they will all benefit from the 5% crit to compensate the nerf which result in a up for them. If the others classes had a 3% nerf on stamina, willpower, etc which were compensated by the other legacy buff then you would have a point but its not the case.

 

Critical chance is the only stats where everyone is nerfed and IA were the only one to benefit from that unique buff. Thus we are the only one getting a disadvantage in the overall legacy buff system.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Bocherel

[Shroudveil]

I disregard pve, in pvp you are rarely buffed after the start of the match especially since there is rarely an operative in the group.

 

You need to wake up there, people wont even need to bring an op to get that buff anymore.

 

actually i prefer the warrior buff, +5%blanket buff to damage is better imo than +5%crit...

 

now i have to level a warrior too:

[Ryemfoh]

actually i prefer the warrior buff, +5%blanket buff to damage is better imo than +5%crit...

 

now i have to level a warrior too:

 

Heh - me too .. I already have the Inq one

[Bocherel]

actually i prefer the warrior buff, +5%blanket buff to damage is better imo than +5%crit...

 

now i have to level a warrior too:

 

Yup but it doesnt matter, we still benefit less from the system than others classes.

[G-Seven]

I wear champion gear and I get killed in 3-5 seconds if an operative/scoundrel jumps me

 

I don't think 1.2 is going to help you survive any more than presently against Concealment Ops.

 

You may want to search the forums for 1v1 strategies.

[hulkweazel]

This is just not true. Every class was stacking Surge pre-nerf because it was way ahead of any other stat at that point.

 

It is also extremely naive to say that burst classes were more effected than other classes. Stat weightings should never be viewed in isolation. Crit / Surge / Power are all complimentary and afaik scale identically for all classes. If it weren't for the overpowered nature of Surge pre-nerf, blindly stacking it would have been detrimental to your damage (including your burst damage) over calculating your actual stat weights and gearing appropriately.

 

I would argue Lethality actually lost more from the nerf than since they need to stack crit to leverage Lethal Purpose, and they can hardly be called a "burst" class.

No, you are looking at it in a vacuum. Yes, nerf to surge nerfs damage across the board, but what it REALLY does is nerf a class's ability to burst in PvP, making it take longer to kill someone. This is why it affects classes that rely on burst more heavily. While nearly every class, with a few exceptions, CAN burst, not every class relys as heavily on burst as Concealment Ops.

 

Besides that, if I understand Surge correctly, it gives the most benefit to those that have the highest crit chance, since it only benefits crits. This also tends to hurt Concealment Ops the most, as they tend to have higher crit chance than other classes, in my experience.

 

Link please. The only Concealment parses I've seen are these, and as you can see I have some concerns with the rotation used.

 

Besides .. you talk about this like it's a bad thing. If you genuinely believe that Operatives are far behind other DPS, and you don't want to re-roll, you should be jumping up and down now that there's proof. After all, BW can't ignore it forever and still claim that they want classes to be balanced.

Here.

[Ryemfoh]

No, you are looking at it in a vacuum. Yes, nerf to surge nerfs damage across the board, but what it REALLY does is nerf a class's ability to burst in PvP, making it take longer to kill someone. This is why it affects classes that rely on burst more heavily. While nearly every class, with a few exceptions, CAN burst, not every class relys as heavily on burst as Concealment Ops.

 

Besides that, if I understand Surge correctly, it gives the most benefit to those that have the highest crit chance, since it only benefits crits. This also tends to hurt Concealment Ops the most, as they tend to have higher crit chance than other classes, in my experience.

What stats you choose to run with are just that: your choice.

 

Theorycrafters have kindly given us nice spreadsheets which will tell us what stats we should be getting, and while Surge was overpowered they all conveniently said that we should be getting Surge >> Crit > Power (at least until fairly high levels of Crit) ... that was the same for all classes, and now it has changed for all classes.

 

Concealment Operatives don't even have any +crit modifying talents that would make Surge extra appealing. Lethality (again) on the other hand have Lethal Dose which increases their crit rate on all DoT's. The Surge nerf effected them more, even if they weren't stacking crit, because those T4 talent points became less valuable.

 

In every MMO that I've played, people like to see big numbers flying across their screen. This has almost always resulted in uninformed people over-stacking crit. The simple fact is that it's much harder to add up all the numbers that fly across your screen, but the big ones stand out and make you feel more powerful.

 

This has nothing to do with class / burst / anything like that - it is psychology and human nature. The fact that Concealment Operatives suffer from this as well is not unusual, but that doesn't mean anything when you look at the real data.

 

Here.

Thanks for that - nice to see some more data. If I'm reading his parse right, ThePedia must have a fairly strange build. His rotation is pretty tight, but could possibly use some improvements (need sims to be sure):

• He managed 25x Back Blast (Backstab) - this is pretty good, but still ~3 short of the theoretical max. 3x2440 = 7320 / 332s = 22 DPS (~2%)
  
• From no of ticks, it looks like he did ~20 Corrosive Dart's, losing about 32s of DoT uptime or 2x CD's (possibly energy constrained) Hard to work out the impact - probably around 4k damage or 1% DPS
  
• He managed 40x Blaster Whip (Shiv) in a 5:32 test. This means he was about 15 Shivs short of the theoretical max (possibly energy constrained) 15x1564 = 23.5k / 332 = ~71 DPS (6%)
  
• He opened with Shoot First (HS), but didn't use it again during the test. Theoretically, he could have used it 5 times over 5 mins (1x Opener, 2x Cloaking Screen, 2x Infiltrate). Unfortunately his HS crit, but assuming they hit for on avg 3k each that would add another 12k damage = ~36 DPS (3%)
  
• Flying Fists (Collateral Strike) = 11 procs vs 43 Sucker Punch (~25%. This means he only has 1 point in Collateral Strike not two. Considering CS has been buffed to make up for the Culling change, this doesn't seem ideal to me. Doubling this to 50% proc would have increased his damage by ~5k/332 = ~14 DPS (a little over 1%)
  
• He didn't use Sabotage Charge (EP) at all.
  
• He didn't use XS Freighter Flyby (Orbital Strike) at all.
  

 

But I did find some even more useful info in that thread:

 

the dudes over @ sithwarrior have some rough dps logs:

 

Annihilation Marauder (1500)

Watchmen Sentinel (1500)

 

Scrapper Scoundrel (1450)

Concealment Operative (1450)

 

Assassin (1350)

Shadow (1350)

 

Arsenal Mercenary (1350)

Gunnery Commando (1350)

 

Sniper (1325)

Gunslinger (1325)

 

Rage Juggernaut (1300)

Focus Guardian (1300)

 

Sorcerer (1250)

Sage (1250)

SHOCK! HORROR! Post "nerf", Operatives are 2nd in DPS behind Marauders

Edited March 28, 2012 by Ryemfoh

[Arrys]

I hadnt thought of this... now im pretty upset

 

yes now as you already have that +5% crit you can go get +5% damage base buff and add to your sustained damage and increase the size of your crits. As surge was nerfed for everyone but we as a class have talents above surge that increase crit damage by 30% you gain alot of benefit adding that +5% damage buff to you on both ends.

 

It's not only a one way street.

[BrutusKane]

i am a fully geared bm and rakata operative i can 1v1 vs most classes and win i could never 2 shot someone i missed that boat by a couple of weeks. i think we are in a good spot right now but every time you guys nerf us i keep on putting more and more points into the medic tree.

here is my spec i can do avg of 175k damage 175k healing in huttball.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401Mfc0zZMIGMdorbf.1

 

my problem is not pvp its the pve content it seems like everything i do it not even coming close to what a marauder does we will find out when we get combat logs.

 

please consider lil changes not a ton of massive ones.........

 

i really regret not rolling a sniper. i did not make a stealth class to heal...

[hulkweazel]

What stats you choose to run with are just that: your choice.

 

Theorycrafters have kindly given us nice spreadsheets which will tell us what stats we should be getting, and while Surge was overpowered they all conveniently said that we should be getting Surge >> Crit > Power (at least until fairly high levels of Crit) ... that was the same for all classes, and now it has changed for all classes.

 

Concealment Operatives don't even have any +crit modifying talents that would make Surge extra appealing. Lethality (again) on the other hand have Lethal Dose which increases their crit rate on all DoT's. The Surge nerf effected them more, even if they weren't stacking crit, because those T4 talent points became less valuable.

 

In every MMO that I've played, people like to see big numbers flying across their screen. This has almost always resulted in uninformed people over-stacking crit. The simple fact is that it's much harder to add up all the numbers that fly across your screen, but the big ones stand out and make you feel more powerful.

 

This has nothing to do with class / burst / anything like that - it is psychology and human nature. The fact that Concealment Operatives suffer from this as well is not unusual, but that doesn't mean anything when you look at the real data.

...you know how PvP works right? Burst >>>>> Sustained DPS in PvP.

 

Thanks for that - nice to see some more data. If I'm reading his parse right, ThePedia must have a fairly strange build. His rotation is pretty tight, but could possibly use some improvements (need sims to be sure):

• He managed 25x Back Blast (Backstab) - this is pretty good, but still ~3 short of the theoretical max. 3x2440 = 7320 / 332s = 22 DPS (~2%)
  
• From no of ticks, it looks like he did ~20 Corrosive Dart's, losing about 32s of DoT uptime or 2x CD's (possibly energy constrained) Hard to work out the impact - probably around 4k damage or 1% DPS
  
• He managed 40x Blaster Whip (Shiv) in a 5:32 test. This means he was about 15 Shivs short of the theoretical max (possibly energy constrained) 15x1564 = 23.5k / 332 = ~71 DPS (6%)
  
• He opened with Shoot First (HS), but didn't use it again during the test. Theoretically, he could have used it 5 times over 5 mins (1x Opener, 2x Cloaking Screen, 2x Infiltrate). Unfortunately his HS crit, but assuming they hit for on avg 3k each that would add another 12k damage = ~36 DPS (3%)
  
• Flying Fists (Collateral Strike) = 11 procs vs 43 Sucker Punch (~25%. This means he only has 1 point in Collateral Strike not two. Considering CS has been buffed to make up for the Culling change, this doesn't seem ideal to me. Doubling this to 50% proc would have increased his damage by ~5k/332 = ~14 DPS (a little over 1%)
  
• He didn't use Sabotage Charge (EP) at all.
  
• He didn't use XS Freighter Flyby (Orbital Strike) at all.
  

 

But I did find some even more useful info in that thread:

 

 

SHOCK! HORROR! Post "nerf", Operatives are 2nd in DPS behind Marauders

You say the Op isn't optimized, but what makes you think the Marauder is? Besides, this was done on test dummies in which the Op didn't have to position themselves correctly, deal with knockbacks, or defensive cooldowns.

 

Yes, I saw that other post. They had no link, just random numbers with nothing to back it up. Considering 10 posts after that couldn't find the same data on the site, why the heck would you put more trust in random numbers than someone who actually explained their process/rotation? Because those numbers support what you want? Bias at its finest.

[Ryemfoh]

...you know how PvP works right? Burst >>>>> Sustained DPS in PvP.

Yes I know how PvP works, and when to burst vs harass ... what does that have to do with the discussion around game-wide nerfs to Surge and Crit?

 

You're claiming that Concealment is "more effected" than other classes which is not true (even if you really really want it to be). We have no mechanics based around crit, others do. If anyone was "more effected" it was those classes / specs.

 

You say the Op isn't optimized, but what makes you think the Marauder is? Besides, this was done on test dummies in which the Op didn't have to position themselves correctly, deal with knockbacks, or defensive cooldowns.

I didn't get to see the Mara parse, and don't really know the class well enough to comment on it anyway. I can only comment on the data that I have access to, so I was simply pointing out that with a few changes to his spec and rotation, ThePedia probably could have equalled or surpassed the stated Mara dps.

 

I have already discussed the "target dummy vs real fight" question in another thread, but I'll repeat it here: The reason why target dummy parses are important is because they set the base-line. Well, ideally a sim sets the base line by allowing us to tweak rotations and stats until optimal, and this is then verified by dummy parses. I haven't found a functioning Operative sim yet, which is why we need to evaluate the rotations in the parses that we do have access to.

 

Real fight parses are even more valuable. This is where we get to see how fight mechanics effect each of the classes by comparing their fight DPS against their base line (dummy) DPS. If we ever want BW to take notice of our mechanical disadvantages (lack of gap closer) - this is the comparison that we need. If all other classes can achieve (warning: made up numbers!) 90% uptime on the boss and we can only manage 60%, it is immediately apparent that we're lacking skills that allow us to stay on target*.

 

* Or that the skills we do have aren't effective enough. The improved cover system may have some impact on this already, but I haven't seen any feedback on that yet.

 

Yes, I saw that other post. They had no link, just random numbers with nothing to back it up. Considering 10 posts after that couldn't find the same data on the site, why the heck would you put more trust in random numbers than someone who actually explained their process/rotation? Because those numbers support what you want?

The Concealment number (1450) is in the vicinity I would expect it to be from napkin-mathing a rotation based on the parses that I have seen. When I viewed the thread, there were no requests for links (yet) - what reason did I have to doubt it?

 

I also can't find that data on the site, so I'm beginning to have my doubts... I will reserve judgement until I see more actual parses.

 

Bias at its finest.

This is rich coming from one who is claiming that a game-wide stat nerf effects this class more than others. And who has consistently rejected any positive posts about the class as either false or misinformed - without access to the proof which is only now starting to become available.

 

Maybe you will be proven correct, for me that would be an awesome result! It means I can expect a buff to a class that I already feel effective with and more importantly, enjoy playing!

[Wilow]

-snip-

• Flying Fists (Collateral Strike) = 11 procs vs 43 Sucker Punch (~25%. This means he only has 1 point in Collateral Strike not two. Considering CS has been buffed to make up for the Culling change, this doesn't seem ideal to me. Doubling this to 50% proc would have increased his damage by ~5k/332 = ~14 DPS (a little over 1%)
  

-snip-

 

Not entirely. Remember Collateral Stike (Flying Fists) regrants a TA (against poisoned targets) which lets you Lacerate (Sucker Punch) again (which we all know), but you can't proc another CS for 10 secs (which you may have forgotten). So if we subtract 11 Lacerates from the total, the percent looks more like 34%. This is assuming the following Lacerate doesn't land until after this 10second internal cd. In reality, with our abilities having different cds, our rotation doesn't have 10secs between lacerates, so you are going to clip this cd every once in a while (even trying to hold out on using lacerate won't work).

 

Long story short, his build does have 2 points, not just 1.

 

Edit: Well he either has 2 points, or got very very lucky with his CS procs.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Wilow

[Ryemfoh]

Not entirely. Remember Collateral Stike (Flying Fists) regrants a TA (against poisoned targets) which lets you Lacerate (Sucker Punch) again (which we all know), but you can't proc another CS for 10 secs (which you may have forgotten). So if we subtract 11 Lacerates from the total, the percent looks more like 34%. This is assuming the following Lacerate doesn't land until after this 10second internal cd. In reality, with our abilities having different cds, our rotation doesn't have 10secs between lacerates, so you are going to clip this cd every once in a while (even trying to hold out on using lacerate won't work).

 

Long story short, his build does have 2 points, not just 1.

 

Edit: Well he either has 2 points, or got very very lucky with his CS procs.

 

Good point - the other parse I've seen had exactly 50% CS procs, so I forgot to take the 10s CD into consideration.

[hulkweazel]

Yes I know how PvP works, and when to burst vs harass ... what does that have to do with the discussion around game-wide nerfs to Surge and Crit?

 

You're claiming that Concealment is "more effected" than other classes which is not true (even if you really really want it to be). We have no mechanics based around crit, others do. If anyone was "more effected" it was those classes / specs.

You don't see how nerfing burst damage across the board hurts classes that rely on burst damage more than other classes that don't rely on burst damage? I really don't know what to say.

I didn't get to see the Mara parse, and don't really know the class well enough to comment on it anyway. I can only comment on the data that I have access to, so I was simply pointing out that with a few changes to his spec and rotation, ThePedia probably could have equalled or surpassed the stated Mara dps.

 

I have already discussed the "target dummy vs real fight" question in another thread, but I'll repeat it here: The reason why target dummy parses are important is because they set the base-line. Well, ideally a sim sets the base line by allowing us to tweak rotations and stats until optimal, and this is then verified by dummy parses. I haven't found a functioning Operative sim yet, which is why we need to evaluate the rotations in the parses that we do have access to.

 

Real fight parses are even more valuable. This is where we get to see how fight mechanics effect each of the classes by comparing their fight DPS against their base line (dummy) DPS. If we ever want BW to take notice of our mechanical disadvantages (lack of gap closer) - this is the comparison that we need. If all other classes can achieve (warning: made up numbers!) 90% uptime on the boss and we can only manage 60%, it is immediately apparent that we're lacking skills that allow us to stay on target*.

 

* Or that the skills we do have aren't effective enough. The improved cover system may have some impact on this already, but I haven't seen any feedback on that yet.

...What's your point? The baseline numbers had Concealment Ops doing considerably lower damage, fully buffed, than Marauders that were unbuffed. You don't see the problem with this?

The Concealment number (1450) is in the vicinity I would expect it to be from napkin-mathing a rotation based on the parses that I have seen. When I viewed the thread, there were no requests for links (yet) - what reason did I have to doubt it?

 

I also can't find that data on the site, so I'm beginning to have my doubts... I will reserve judgement until I see more actual parses.

Are you serious? You had no reason to doubt it? Despite no explanation and no link, just random numbers thrown out by some random user? Since when is this EVER a good idea?

This is rich coming from one who is claiming that a game-wide stat nerf effects this class more than others. And who has consistently rejected any positive posts about the class as either false or misinformed - without access to the proof which is only now starting to become available.

LOL, now you are grasping at insults. Grow up. You know nothing about me. Edited March 30, 2012 by hulkweazel

[Ryemfoh]

You don't see how nerfing burst damage across the board hurts classes that rely on burst damage more than other classes that don't rely on burst damage? I really don't know what to say.

Crit =/= Burst damage ... Crit == incidental burst. Concealment Operatives are Burst damage because we have heavy(ish) hitting abilities like HS, BS, EP, etc which we can only do every 12s - 2 mins, not because some operatives choose to run with high crit %.

 

I really don't think this is a complicated concept.

 

...What's your point? The baseline numbers had Concealment Ops doing considerably lower damage, fully buffed, than Marauders that were unbuffed. You don't see the problem with this?

My point is that the baseline is probably flawed, so you are putting too much value into that figure ... much the same as I probably put too much value into the SithWarrior reported values that no-one seems to be able to find.

 

Are you serious? You had no reason to doubt it? Despite no explanation and no link, just random numbers thrown out by some random user? Since when is this EVER a good idea?

Already answered this in my last post ... you want me to type it again?

 

LOL, now you are grasping at insults. Grow up. You know nothing about me.

Insults? You mean me reflecting your statement of bias back at you?

 

You're right - I know nothing about you other than the information that you've provided me with on these forums. Based on that information (i.e. overwhelmingly negative reactions and nay-saying to anything positive posted on the Operative forums), I have concluded that you are in fact suffering from bias against all positive aspects of this class.

 

It makes me sad, because from some of your posts it sounds like you're actually a pretty good player who used to enjoy this class ... I hope that you manage to find fun again in this game (or another)

[hulkweazel]

Insults? You mean me reflecting your statement of bias back at you?

 

You're right - I know nothing about you other than the information that you've provided me with on these forums. Based on that information (i.e. overwhelmingly negative reactions and nay-saying to anything positive posted on the Operative forums), I have concluded that you are in fact suffering from bias against all positive aspects of this class.

 

It makes me sad, because from some of your posts it sounds like you're actually a pretty good player who used to enjoy this class ... I hope that you manage to find fun again in this game (or another)

What, are you stalking me? How do you know all of my posts are negative? I'd really like to know this.

 

Word of advice - making baseless claims about someone =/= reflecting statements back. But seeing as you take the baseless DPS logs that support your own bias, that's about par for the course.

 

And let me get this straight... bringing up legitimate concerns means I'm not having fun?

 

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you. I don't know why I even bothered in the first place, it's just a complete waste of time.

[OldSwab]

Operatives need to stop claiming that blanket stat nerfs apply to them more than others - this is pure fantasy.

 

"Apply" is different from "affects".

[Ryemfoh]

What, are you stalking me? How do you know all of my posts are negative? I'd really like to know this.

 

Word of advice - making baseless claims about someone =/= reflecting statements back. But seeing as you take the baseless DPS logs that support your own bias, that's about par for the course.

 

And let me get this straight... bringing up legitimate concerns means I'm not having fun?

 

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you. I don't know why I even bothered in the first place, it's just a complete waste of time.

Hey listen - I thought we were discussing whether or not the Surge nerf effected Operatives more than any other classes ... Since you haven't addressed that in this post, I'll assume that I got my point across and leave it there.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how my claim of your bias is baseless while your claim of my bias isn't. I'll get back to you on that one.