Slicing will single handedly ruin the economy

[CaesarsGhost]

I think if you send one of your crew off on any of the crew missions, its all about time invested and what you see out of it. I think at later lvls you will see bigger rewards out of TH/I/UW/DIP then you will slicing. Time spent vs. value of that time; whether that time is spent by you or your crew.

[Felioats]

I think there's a chance Bioware has actually already thought of this. They might even have access to numbers that we don't, showing it's fine.

 

[Helagoth]

What makes slicing OP more than anything, and correct me if I'm wrong but this is my understanding, is that when you send someone out on those 30 minute missions, you can swap characters, do it again, and have multiple characters doing it concurrently.

 

Since there's no level limit attached to your skills, once you get 2 companions (which is ~lvl 16), you can be continually sending out guys on missions. It'll be way too easy to generate huge amounts of credits.

 

 

Where the biggest problem with this is in new people. Yes, 100k credits will shortly be not that much money. Purple armor will be on the AH for 300k credits. And new people will join, look at that, and get discouraged. Then they'll see an add for "buy a million credits for $10". And gold sellers have a field day.

 

In general, gold sellers don't thrive when currency is hard to get, they thrive when it's easy to get. And then we get things like hacked accounts, which is no fun for anyone.

[Varaben]

I think what he's worried about is that you can basically AFK macro this if you get a third party click program (not sure these work and I assume they are against some rules). Imagine if you have 20 free inventory slots. If the mission takes 30 minutes you can then afk macro this for 10 hours and get 20 lockboxes.

 

That is why he is worried about the economy and I think it's a valid concern. You can then ad a macro that makes you move around every so often which stops you from logging out.

[krighton]

whatever, i'll just keep grinding slicing until they nerf it into oblivion like mmo's always do to parts of the game that are enjoyable. Then i'll switch to something else.

[AriasImmortal]

Currently sitting at 400 slicing and after buying the level 40 speeder training, buying 2 speeders at 25k a piece, loaning someone 50k, and training, I still have over 300k. My friend still has over 500k. And we're not even 50 yet.

 

Slicing is pretty ridiculous.

[goulet]

it boils down to free money, 1 really successful companion quest will pay for the next 7 quests you send them on, and still leave you with change. you could make 20k in 30 minutes off of world spawn in the later builds in beta.

 

It creates an issue relative to other characters who dont have it. What is a person with all that money going to spend it on in the player economy?

-Armor: why? you can buy legendary armor from vendors to get what you dont get from quests/flashpoints.

-Weapons: same thing as armor.

-Stims: why? if you have the money just by it from a vendor.

-exclude the crafting professinos that require slicing to craft.

-mods: possible to buy as epics are better then world token blues

 

as someone stated with the GTN removals slicers profit, and then most of their wealth leaves the system through npcs rather then entering a player economy (to be fair some of it can be placed on the "appeal" of some crafted items being small).

[Fdzzaigl]

Slicing can never be balanced as long as it doesn't have an actual role in the economy.

 

What this profession does, is just giving you a way to generate free money outside of the vendor trash you usually sell. It prints money.

 

As long as it stays this way it will cause rampant inflation and will make it easy for goldfarmers who can level up slicing toons extremely quickly.

They can try to nerf it hard, but that will then make it near useless because it has no role in the economy.

 

Slicing just needs the money printing removed, instead it should play some real role, possibly in providing some item augments or in changing the outcome of crafts to be better.

 

The game lacks an "enchanting" kind of thing right now.

[Newcs]

Agree that Slicing is OP. I am leveling it right now and have a good chunk of gold for my lvl. I have my speeder already paid for from what i have. While its nice to be able to have that cash, in the long run its going to severely hurt the game's economy. They need to nerf the money missions to the ground right now. They need to err on the side of too little money entering the economy than too much. Because you can always add in more, its much more difficult to take out.

[Noth]

Agree that Slicing is OP. I am leveling it right now and have a good chunk of gold for my lvl. I have my speeder already paid for from what i have. While its nice to be able to have that cash, in the long run its going to severely hurt the game's economy. They need to nerf the money missions to the ground right now. They need to err on the side of too little money entering the economy than too much. Because you can always add in more, its much more difficult to take out.

 

You may as well remove slicing from the game then.

[Easelman]

I think the idea is that I have one character with 2 pets, and 3 other alts all with slicing.

 

I just log them on and off to get supplies and money. I have more money than I will ever need. and my highest lvl character is 23 and the rest 10 to get pets.

 

I make 95% of my money from slicing, 1% from crafting and 4% from missions. When you do a flashpoint and get 2k credits its not equal.

[Dominickz]

Slicing is out of control imo, not as much as it was but it is still too good.

[Mackuss]

You assume 10,000 credits is of any significant amount of credits.

 

I am going to guess 10,000 credits will buy you pretty much, I have nearly 1,000 credits at level 6, well on my way to that amount before level 20.

 

But what they're saying is that, not only is the pure incoming of credits too much, but even compared to other professions it's imbalanced.

 

For instance, I'm working really hard to get my Armormech worked up. When I have to train I am literally out of money. Like, I LITERALLY have like 600 credits. At level 17. I burn money on missions to get supplies to build items - that I reverse engineer to get crappy turn around of reagants - it's all a loss. Every second of it. I lose money on the missions to get supplies. I lose supplies to make items. I lose the items (and therefore can't sell them), to get some supplies back. Repeat. It's all a loss.

 

Slicing? It's put in pocket change, and in the grand scheme bring back a speeder.

 

It really is imbalanced. There needs to be something to spend money ON for the thing.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Mackuss

[Saldrex]

I really feel like people are vastly overstating the value returned from slicing

 

1 really successful companion quest will pay for the next 7 quests you send them on, and still leave you with change. you could make 20k in 30 minutes off of world spawn in the later builds in beta.

 

So far I will say that I have never had a reward of 7x the cost to send them out. I will admit i am only at 300 in slicing right now and planning on dropping it when it get the recopies for cybertech for something more useful like underworld trading. The most I have gotten i think was 4k from a mission that cost 2k and took like 30 mins but that was a crit box pretty much. I have found that usually you only make what i want to say is -5% to +15% returns with no crits. I tend to make maybe 100 to 200 credits from many of my 30 min missions but the crits net a 1k profit and the failures none. Maybe I am doing it wrong and could be making more, I very well could be.

 

What makes it OP from my understanding of it is that it is pretty much the only one you can just level right now. All other missions pretty much lose you money at this moment pending treasure hunting which seems to net about even or at least pay enough to keep spamming it. If you spam any other profession you run out of money and you dwindle into not being able to afford anything any more, skill training, prof training, etc. One of the problems with other profs is that nothing is worth anything at the moment and the AH is bare with nothing to buy (there is stuff i want to buy but no one is selling anything at the moment on my server). In time when mats establish value (and they will) will probably be worth more than the cost to send your companions on the mission for the mission skills at least since as far as I have seen there is no other method to obtain them effectively. That may not hold true so much for mats that are not max level.

 

No matter how poor or rich the server is the prices of mats obtained from mission skills will always outweigh the price of the cost in order to make money and not just lose. The mats are first controlled by the prices of the missions and secondly by the economic level unless you can disenchant useless gear for the blue parts as well. Looking back at examples of economics in a similar game, like wow, in vanilla enchanting mats we valuable since not everyone could easily obtain them through disenchanting on a loot roll and it squeezed the availability. When the disenchant roll was implemented, making it easily available to all with no overhead of needing to use someone's hard earned skill but rather abuse it in a way that made the mats no longer valuable. Mission skills could be rendered valueless if their mats are reverse engineerable from over farmed dungeons. So far at least early dungeons have not been reverse engineerable for anything but I know all mods (as everything that also has a recipe can be reverse engineered for them). I do not understand the option to reverse engineer in dungeons unless you get the blue parts or even epic parts since my only experiences so far have sent me errors, saying something about no recipe or something. Goods tend to always come down to the price of investment + labor + demand.

 

TLDR

-Slicing seems to netting me -5% to +15% pending crits and failures, crites netting +100% and fail obviously -100%

-Slicing OP because it is currently (pending treasure hunting) the only one that can level off of mission skills indefinitely (does not go broke raising itself unlike others)

-Mission skill mats at max level should net at least as much as the cost to send or no one would do them (probably worth as much as slicing if not more with inflated economy, pending reverse engineering in overfarmed dungeons)

-Currently mission skill mats are not worth much with low demand

-So far reverse engineering has not worked for me in dungeons, failing due to no recipe or something

[Mackuss]

Currently sitting at 400 slicing and after buying the level 40 speeder training, buying 2 speeders at 25k a piece, loaning someone 50k, and training, I still have over 300k. My friend still has over 500k. And we're not even 50 yet.

 

Slicing is pretty ridiculous.

 

THAT'S what I'm talking about. Case and point. It's all profit.

[CustomBark]

Perhaps slicing is unbalanced...I prefer to think of it as a way to fund alt characters crafting operations. Crew skills can be a big money sink, so why not have one that makes you money instead? Like others have said, the realistic thing to do is relax, enjoy the benefits, and see how the economy plays out. No need to push the panic button.

[Benk]

With the economies essentially unestablished yet, we do not know what the value of crafting mats will be. There is the possibility that one mat could net 100% of the mission cost but we don't know yet. For all we know, slicing could be just drops in the barrel compared to top end crafting mats. Bioware more than likely has the price data from mats from during the beta and determined that the way slicing is does not play a significant role on the game economy. It is too early to judge something; wait for the economies to come up and start running and balance out to see how things play out before crying wolf.

[Sauzer]

Any kind of pure money mission is a bad idea to begin with. Because as they said themselves YOU don't have to spend any time doing them. YOU dont even have to be online to run missions. Send your companions on slicing, go watch tv, return, profit.

[nix_crash]

Perhaps slicing is unbalanced...I prefer to think of it as a way to fund alt characters crafting operations. Crew skills can be a big money sink, so why not have one that makes you money instead?

 

because you cant take three other crew skills _PLUS_ slicing, it would be "fair" only if everybody got it.

as it is, its an inflationary force, market prices will be done around who has it thus has free money to spend and who dont take it wont be able to afford anything selt.

just remove the money boxes and put there something that has actually to be worked _INTO_ the market to make money.

Edited December 18, 2011 by nix_crash

[cdstephen]

In the short term slicing is great, but in the long term you will want to take a crafting skill and the gathering/mission skills to compliment that if you want to make money at level 50. The reason is because endgame crafting items, especially modification items, are extremely expensive. And if more people take slicing, then that means there will be less supply of those crafting items that will always be in demand, which means that those items will cost more. This will cause people to give up slicing to make more money by using those crafting skills, and everything will balance out eventually.

 

The problem I foresee is that eventually crafting modification items will become less lucrative because they are removable.

[nix_crash]

In the short term slicing is great, but in the long term you will want to take a crafting skill and the gathering/mission skills to compliment that if you want to make money at level 50. The reason is because endgame crafting items, especially modification items, are extremely expensive. And if more people take slicing, then that means there will be less supply of those crafting items that will always be in demand, which means that those items will cost more. This will cause people to give up slicing to make more money by using those crafting skills, and everything will balance out eventually.

 

you are wrong here, by selling crafted stuff you have to compete with the other sellers, only the good ones will make money.

slicing is free money with no competition needed, it works -outside- the market supply/demand rule thus its either an inflationary force if it gets you money or worthless if it gets you too few, you cant balance it in any way.

this is economy 101 people...

[Goshee]

Would just like to say I also picked up slicing and at level 17 I now have enough for my license. (40k)

[Putok]

Slicing seems fairly balanced to me. Taking it over another gather skill prevents you from getting everything needed to be self sufficient with a crafting skill. It seems like a fair tradeoff to me.

[Balyan]

you are wrong here, by selling crafted stuff you have to compete with the other sellers, only the good ones will make money.

slicing is free money with no competition needed, it works -outside- the market supply/demand rule thus its either an inflationary force if it gets you money or worthless if it gets you too few, you cant balance it in any way.

this is economy 101 people...

 

Your missing the point, this is not like economy class. The way you see it is that slicing is like printing money, which does indeed cause inflation.

 

The difference is that you are giving up the ability to be a top notch crafter, creating a shortage of goods resulting increased revenues for crafters. Whatever inflation occurs will serve only to weaken the viability of slicing and increase the sale point of crafted goods. This creates a shift away from slicing as it loses economic viability, stabilizing the system.

 

As to only the good sellers making money, when demand exceeds supply it matters little if you are undercut.

[Pansophist]

A lot of people are complaining about slicing and stating the repercussions from leveling multiple toons to 16 then farming slicing.

 

Why talk about nerfing it? I'm of the mindset that, once 50, it really won't seem that OP anymore and I'll more than willingly give it up in favor of actually _useful_ skills.

 

Instead of nerfing it, impose a level limit. Ie, there are 50 levels and 400 crafting levels. Make it so that you increment by 40 every 5 levels.

 

Level 5 ---- 40

Level 10 ---- 80

Level 20 ---- 160

Level 30 ---- 240

Level 40 ---- 320

Level 50 ---- 400

 

It would prevent gold farmers, but at the same time allow for a somewhat steady cash flow during leveling, as well as allowing the full cash flow at 50 for those who for some reason decide to stay with slicing.

 

*shrug* People like to blow things out of proportion, especially considering the game hasn't even technically been released yet.