1.2 Hard Mode loot. Why raid when you can just run dailies?

[Thoffs]

FYI, it has been reported in PTS threads that Corellia dailies do not give blackhole commendations, that only the Corellia weekly does (gives 6).

[Xneco]

How many Blackhole coms are required for a piece of gear? Edited March 21, 2012 by Xneco

[alifaraaz]

Around 30-60 black hole commendations needed I believe. There was a list posted a while back but I can't find it.

 

The new dailies will just be giving more daily commendations, apart from the WEEKLY, as stated by the guy above, gives 6 (I didnt know this but I'll take his word).

 

So just to clear it all up:

 

No you CANT get raid level gear without either raiding, or spending about 6 months griding weekly's for a whole set

 

As far as I'm aware. Black Hole commendations will drop from KP/EV Nightmare and Explosive Conflict (probably all difficulties).

 

Theyll also come from the weekly.

 

And possibly from Lost Island Hardmode? This is unconfirmed as I'm not on the PTS myself, would love if someone could comment on this.

[Akea]

6 months?

 

Try 18 months.

 

445 BH comms at 6 a week is 74.2 weeks.

 

[Xneco]

6 months?

 

Try 18 months.

 

445 BH comms at 6 a week is 74.2 weeks.

 

 

Good, can supplement by doing weekly... but it is not viable as solo source of Blackhole coms.

[KorinHyvek]

So, crisis averted. Stop panicking at every announcement, people. Edited March 21, 2012 by KorinHyvek

[julioni]

I do think its pretty simple.... if u solo, u dont need raid gear. if you raid you need raid gear.

 

i dont raid much yet and i dont expect to have better raid gear than a raider nor do i want it, but soloing i have the gear that fits the things that i am doing.

 

once i start raiding, i'm gonna get raid gear. thats how all should think.

[Jinuyr]

I can't stand dailies... If people can actually find the patience to do them, they deserve some sort of prize. I prefer Hard/Nightmare operations.

 

Everyone needs their chance at something IMO.

[Raeln]

Saying that its harder and takes more effort is completely untrue, they're both relative. I raid every week, and do belsavis/ilum dailies almost every day too. The amount of time and effort i put in to the dailies (1.5 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 1 single piece of gear) is far greater than the effort i put in to raiding (2 hours a day, 1 day a week, for multiple pieces of gear). If its effort you're talking about I personally would say dailies win hands down.

 

As for difficulty just because there are more people doesnt instantly make it harder. More people does not = higher difficulty. More variables perhaps (or specifically different variables), but not necessarily difficult. Raiding in this game, thus far, is incredibly easy. In some cases more people make it easier, as someones stuff ups have less of an impact in the greater scheme of things. I've carried several people through raiding content that barely know the fights and were completely undergeared, i would hardly call it difficult for those people (or even for me really).

 

I have put in ridiculously less time and way less effort into raiding than i have doing dailies, yet the rewards from raiding have been far superior... How does that work exactly?

 

This is my experience too. We're working on hardmodes in raiding. I've put far more actual time and effort in doing dailies than I have raiding - yet dailies barely give anything worthwhile for the time investment.

 

I raid primarily to see the content and socialize with my raid group. We have a killer time on voice chat while raiding. To me the gear is just a necessary evil to enable us to do the content. I think most of my raid group would be fine with getting the gear to raid from dailies, then raiding for prestige items like Karagga's supposed hat that won't drop.

[Raeln]

I do think its pretty simple.... if u solo, u dont need raid gear. if you raid you need raid gear.

 

i dont raid much yet and i dont expect to have better raid gear than a raider nor do i want it, but soloing i have the gear that fits the things that i am doing.

 

once i start raiding, i'm gonna get raid gear. thats how all should think.

 

If you raid, then you need other people to raid with. Raiders burn out or stop showing up for a myriad of reasons and being able to fill the Ops group easily is very beneficial to the raid group as a whole.

 

Having a decently geared playerbase is much easier to recruit from than having a playerbase wearing gear that is essentially 2 to 3 tiers too low to try the content your Ops group wants to try. So good luck finding a replacement for healer_02 or dps_04 for your hardmode attempt when the new recruits available have to run story mode for 3 weeks to get geared out first.

 

ePeen aside - it's much more beneficial to the raiding population to have a well-geared group to recruit from. Helps to reduce some raider attrition when the veteran raiders don't have to fall back to normal mode to gear up new recruits before they can return to hardmodes.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Raeln

[Valsharoon]

There are already some best in slot items you can get right now from running dailies. Rakata Implants and Earpeice. They take 120 coms each to obtain, thats 360 coms and thats a lot of dailies. So in a way, this has been going on since the game launched. (Refering to the paradigm of getting top end loot for dailies)

 

If the requirement for getting these high end items through dailies are available for the same amount of coms needed to purchase; well I see that as like buying a PS3 at Chuckie Cheese's with a million skeeball tickets. You could send all day, every day playing skeeball and gradually build your ticket reserve (and get really good at skeeball in the process), or you could go out and get a job and buy a PS3. Which one is faster?

 

Through my experiences I found that Time = loot no matter what game you are playing. The time invested to raid and get loot versus the time invested to get the same (or similarly leveled) items through dailies obviously favors the raiding side. There it is, your reason to raid.

[Raeln]

There are already some best in slot items you can get right now from running dailies. Rakata Implants and Earpeice. They take 120 coms each to obtain, thats 360 coms and thats a lot of dailies. So in a way, this has been going on since the game launched. (Refering to the paradigm of getting top end loot for dailies)

 

If the requirement for getting these high end items through dailies are available for the same amount of coms needed to purchase; well I see that as like buying a PS3 at Chuckie Cheese's with a million skeeball tickets. You could send all day, every day playing skeeball and gradually build your ticket reserve (and get really good at skeeball in the process), or you could go out and get a job and buy a PS3. Which one is faster?

 

Through my experiences I found that Time = loot no matter what game you are playing. The time invested to raid and get loot versus the time invested to get the same (or similarly leveled) items through dailies obviously favors the raiding side. There it is, your reason to raid.

 

The issue with the current daily commendation pricing is that Bioware assumed everyone would do all the Belsavis and Ilum dailies everyday. I have more playtime than most and after doing one of the zones, I'm ready to take a break or go do something else.

 

It might be a bit different if the dailies were closer together but with the way the dailies are currently spaced out - especially Ilum, I have no desire to slug through both planets of dailies per day. I hope to see daily commendation gear prices reduced. 120 DCs for an item is stupidly steep. It would be much better at 60 - especially since there are barrels and armoring mods that can be bought for companions.

 

Also, please for the love of daily questing - please Bioware, stop putting in heroic daily quests or at least change their icon color so I can avoid them. I'm not hunting down a partner or group every single day to do that heroic2 / heroic4 for a couple extra commendations.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Raeln

[jamescloutier]

The issue with the current daily commendation pricing is that Bioware assumed everyone would do all the Belsavis and Ilum dailies everyday. I have more playtime than most and after doing one of the zones, I'm ready to take a break or go do something else.

 

It might be a bit different if the dailies were closer together but with the way the dailies are currently spaced out - especially Ilum, I have no desire to slug through both planets of dailies per day. I hope to see daily commendation gear prices reduced. 120 DCs for an item is stupidly steep. It would be much better at 60 - especially since there are barrels and armoring mods that can be bought for companions.

 

Also, please for the love of daily questing - please Bioware, stop putting in heroic daily quests or at least change their icon color so I can avoid them. I'm not hunting down a partner or group every single day to do that heroic2 / heroic4 for a couple extra commendations.

 

I disagree on the pricing. 120 comms isn't much. I get that in 5 to 6 days. I don't think that is too much for the quality of the items you are getting. Also the bonus with the heroics is you also get a purple 22 mod, enhancement, armoring or compainion weapon (or swap out for a blue lockbox). Yes you can buy the purple 23 for 8 comms but I'm willing to give up 1 end & main stat for the freebie in order to get ready to run OPs or HM FPs.

 

Now I'll agree on the spacing in Ilum for sure. It was like they threw darts in at a map and put the dailies there. Belsavis doesn't bother me nearly as much.

[Crixaliss]

I raid for the fun of doing it, the gear is of course a great bonus, but is perhaps secondary to the actual fun of grouping with other people. I still run HM flashpoints with guild people who need to gear up, even though it is of absolutely no benefit to me (well, maybe the biometric crystal alloy I guess).

 

Would I mind if there was a way for non-raiders to get the top gear? Not particularly, no, why should it matter to me how someone else got their gear? I know that mine was from raiding, thats enough for me. Shouldn't be given away for free of course, but another route to it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

All the "They don't *deserve* it" crap is frankly laughable. Who are you to decree who 'deserves' what gear. Its just gear, it doesn't matter if someone got it by doing a billion dailies or by running a few raids, it doesn't matter.

 

Did I say it enough times?

 

It doesn't matter!

[Raeln]

I disagree on the pricing. 120 comms isn't much. I get that in 5 to 6 days. I don't think that is too much for the quality of the items you are getting. Also the bonus with the heroics is you also get a purple 22 mod, enhancement, armoring or compainion weapon (or swap out for a blue lockbox). Yes you can buy the purple 23 for 8 comms but I'm willing to give up 1 end & main stat for the freebie in order to get ready to run OPs or HM FPs.

 

Now I'll agree on the spacing in Ilum for sure. It was like they threw darts in at a map and put the dailies there. Belsavis doesn't bother me nearly as much.

 

I can buy crafted mastercraft implants from the market for 175k each that are better due to the augment slot. It doesn't take me 5 to 6 days to farm 350k credits to buy two of them. I also don't need to crunch dailies and compete against other players for spawns for almost 2 to 3 hours a night to just make that money either.

 

I bought the first few mods with my commendations to get me started off - then I just started dumping credits on the market for almost as good ones. I'm not going to bark at a -1 aim difference between the two - that is, when I could find them on the market. It seems almost no one makes aim mods on my server. They are all strength or willpower, which makes sense because it seems 90% of the Republic on my server are Jedi.

 

Belsavis is decent. I avoid Ilum like the plague though.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Raeln

[JujuManiac]

The thing is, raiders are not supposed to be motivated by gear.

 

Well, Daily Quest Farmes schouldn't be motivated by Gear they don't need either. They should do it just for the fun of it, like raiders should. Should - yeah nice word to describe a nonexistent perfect world out of a mmorpg dream.

 

Raiders need High End Gear, because they face tough challenges. Daily Mission Gear should have high stats in presence and other boni for your companion, because that is how you obtain is.

 

You could say pvp players shouldn't be motivated by gear, but the fun of it, so all players can daily quest for Battlemaster Gear.

 

No, this ist just stupid.

 

Hard Challenge with High Reward => Motivation to beat the challenge and obtain the reward

 

Hard Challenge with No Reward => Nodody wants to beat this challenge (haven't seen anybody doing Daily Quests naked, because it is such a challenge)

 

No Challenge with High Reward => Other, similar Rewards are seen as less valuable. Perhaps not in that perfect dream world without pride and envy, but in ours. No rich person would want aPorsche if everybody could get one for 1 weeks salary of easy work.

[Raeln]

Well, Daily Quest Farmes schouldn't be motivated by Gear they don't need either. They should do it just for the fun of it, like raiders should. Should - yeah nice word to describe a nonexistent perfect world out of a mmorpg dream.

 

Raiders need High End Gear, because they face tough challenges. Daily Mission Gear should have high stats in presence and other boni for your companion, because that is how you obtain is.

 

Raiders don't need high end gear either. The only reason that raiding "requires" a higher level of gear is the carrot on the string. Very few people really enjoy raiding in general so the developers must bribe them with excellent gear to get them to do the content. Because this gear makes the player more powerful, future raid bosses must be made more difficult to present "challenge".

 

This ends up being a cycle. Get better gear to kill the next boss. That boss gives better gear so you can kill the next boss. In the end - none of the gear would be necessary if raiding was made to be fun from the perspective of the masses - which it has never been. With the exception of Wrath in WoW, raiding has been on life support in most of the MMOs that try to make it a mainstay of their endgame.

 

Even in TOR, only 38% of level 50s during the guild summit had been in a raid zone. That is far from a majority of level 50s.

 

You could say pvp players shouldn't be motivated by gear, but the fun of it, so all players can daily quest for Battlemaster Gear.

 

PvP gear must increase in power to remain competitive with PvE gear. Otherwise, the best PvP would be had with equalized gear - so that the player's true skill could be tested against the other players.

 

No, this ist just stupid.

 

Hard Challenge with High Reward => Motivation to beat the challenge and obtain the reward

 

You are making the mistake of assuming that the majority of raiders even desire a hard challenge. I posit that most really do not but just want to increase the power of their character to as close to maximum as possible for them.

 

Hard Challenge with No Reward => Nodody wants to beat this challenge (haven't seen anybody doing Daily Quests naked, because it is such a challenge)

 

Very few would do anything in game for no reward. Of those that are interested in hard challenges (a very small number to begin with) - some would do them for prestigious awards like mounts, titles and special looking gear. There are some very valid reasons to not inflate the stat itemization for gear awarded in hard modes.

 

No Challenge with High Reward => Other, similar Rewards are seen as less valuable. Perhaps not in that perfect dream world without pride and envy, but in ours. No rich person would want aPorsche if everybody could get one for 1 weeks salary of easy work.

 

Ah, ePeen envy. Played up by a small amount of people that want to rub their ego. Hated by the rest that just want to enjoy the content that they paid for.

 

There will always be a challenge present in raiding even if it just required putting together a group of 8/16 loons to all walk into the same zone and click on the same box at the same time. There is always challenge present in getting those raiders together. Is the challenge high enough for you personally? maybe not.

 

It's better to have accessible normal mode content than not have any content for those players to consume at all. After being a hardcore raider in EQ1 for years and then the same in WoW until BC - I stepped away from raiding except for a brief stint during Wrath. TOR is the first game that actually has my interest in raiding again.

 

Do you know why? because it's enjoyable. I personally have grown tired of wiping to content that is tuned so tightly that one missed heal wipes the raid or DPS gets one shot because they were 5 degrees to far to the front and get included in the frontal swipe.

 

We wiped on Soa one time simply because when the first platforms fell down, two of our 8 man team were force disconnected. Yay... great. A wipe that we could in no way prevent. When content is tuned to that level of difficulty, that's when I start asking "why am I doing this?"

[Alcarinn]

Even in TOR, only 38% of level 50s during the guild summit had been in a raid zone. That is far from a majority of level 50s.

 

Such a stupid statement, while true its being used to miss inform...

 

You know if you have 3 chars at lvl 50 and I have 2 chars at lvl 50 and we both raid with 1 char we are 40% accordint to BW guild summit?

 

So nice using the stats in your favor, wont work with smar people only dumb masses

Edited March 26, 2012 by Paralassa
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[ADTRr]

Such a stupid statement, while true its being used to miss inform...

 

You know if you have 3 chars at lvl 50 and I have 2 chars at lvl 50 and we both raid with 1 char we are 40% accordint to BW guild summit?

 

So nice using the stats in your favor, wont work with smar people only dumb masses

 

even with your point, his statement is still valid because seriously not everyone has multiple level 50s, much less three level 50s.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Tharzon]

In WoW's heyday of TBC, less than 1% of all players (I think, willing to admit I'm off a bit but I know it was under 5%) saw the end of Sunwell. They provided a decent approach to gearing using heroic badges that kept the casual daily player in epics that were good and roughly a tier behind raid gear.

 

I find it disingenuous to say no players like to raid. Why would devs waste time on the content if someone didn't like raiding? I happen to enjoy it.

[Shlamorel]

Whats the point of raiding in SWTOR when I can just run some faceroll dailies and get "hard mode" raid gear.

 

Well, personally I'd rather play with friends and guildmates than solo/small-groups. I just enjoy the challenge of raiding and sharing the slaying of bosses together. In short, to have fun.

 

But yea, if attaining gear is your top priority, I can see how you see it that way. To each his own.

[eudaemonea]

Raiders don't need high end gear either. The only reason that raiding "requires" a higher level of gear is the carrot on the string. Very few people really enjoy raiding in general so the developers must bribe them with excellent gear to get them to do the content. Because this gear makes the player more powerful, future raid bosses must be made more difficult to present "challenge".

 

This ends up being a cycle. Get better gear to kill the next boss. That boss gives better gear so you can kill the next boss. In the end - none of the gear would be necessary if raiding was made to be fun from the perspective of the masses - which it has never been. With the exception of Wrath in WoW, raiding has been on life support in most of the MMOs that try to make it a mainstay of their endgame.

 

 

To sit there and say "very few raiders enjoy raiding"... what planet are you on and who made you the authority on what people enjoy? If you want to make a valid argument, do not throw out faked up statistics and use words like "we", "most" "every", etc to "prove" your point. State your opinion using YOURSELF as an example. I don't give two ***** what you THINK "most" people like/dislike. You do not speak for everyone. Especially not raiders. I'm not talking story mode people either. I'm talking the Nightmare folks.

 

I can speak for myself and what I see in our group - those people LOVE raiding. Log in any non-raid day and nobody is on. Come Tues/Wed/Thurs and our roster fills up. Those people are there to RAID. Not do dailies... Pretty much everyone in our group is there for the challenge of doing the content. One guy doesn't like nightmare mode because it's the same drops. The other 11 that come in and out of that group are like meh whatever you want to give me, when the loot drops. Half the time they are out of range to even give loot to because they are tearing off to clear trash to the next boss. They laugh and have fun in vent -- in a group setting -- that isn't otherwise there any other time of the week. So do NOT attempt to preach that "very few raiders enjoy raiding". If my folks didn't enjoy it, they'd just not show up.

 

Daily commendations should NOT be giving raid quality gear. If you're not raiding, you don't need it. Like someone else said, the stats should be optimized for what you're working on. Dailies = companion out. That gear should have presence on it. Just like PvP gear gets expertise. Raid gear should be normal stats you'd need without being in a wz or doing dailies and be obtained in a raid environment.

 

Where mmo's keep screwing the pooch imo, is making those shiny epics too easy to obtain. The whole "badge" system is junk. All it does it give people raid gear that don't want to raid. If you aren't raiding, you don't need the damn gear. It's that simple. But no no, "i paid for this game so I should get what I want" mentalities are what keeps dumbing down every mmo out there. For once I'd like a company to stand up and say NO. You want this shiny epic... go in there and kill the monster that drops it. Period. Instead they have gamers on the life support ***** of badges/commentations/points/etc so they don't have to deal with repair bills or other people.

 

*GASP* OTHER PEOPLE?!?!?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO /cancel sub

 

They took something from WoW and put it in here... and it shouldn't have ever been put in either game. And no, I don't want to hear your garbage about paying a subscription fee and you don't have time to raid and blah blah blah. Bottom line for me has always been that if you want raid gear, you raid. Buying it off a vendor is just welfare in a video game for those that can't. There's enough welfare out in the real world. Can we just STOP giving out handouts to lazy people? I hate it. Nothing you say can ever change my mind on it.

 

Commendations/Badges = WELFARE. See it for what it is.

[namesaretough]

Why do you care about getting raid gear if you hate raiding? If you enjoy raiding, do it. While doing it, you'll happen to get gear which makes you better at the activity you enjoy. If you hate raiding, why do you want gear that you hate having to use?

 

If your complaint was needing to do dailies to get gear to make you the best you can be in a raid setting, that I could understand.

[DroppedD]

Well I wouldn't call it Welfare exactly because they are not just hanging out on the local Cantina getting tax payers money.. they are actively participating in a time consuming activity which allows the ability to compete just a bit better while in a raid. You can't get any Rakata ear prices or implants from anything other than dailies so it seems everyone is on the same playing field in that regard. The welfare comment just doesn't stick for me.

[Raeln]

Such a stupid statement, while true its being used to miss inform...

 

You know if you have 3 chars at lvl 50 and I have 2 chars at lvl 50 and we both raid with 1 char we are 40% accordint to BW guild summit?

 

So nice using the stats in your favor, wont work with smar people only dumb masses

 

You don't know if that is how they tabulated those results. You are only assuming to distract from my point.

 

In reality, why would they possibly skew those numbers in that fashion as that would make it appear that far less people are consuming the content. It would be in their best interest to tabulate by accounts that possessed at least one 50 - that way it would appear that a higher percentage of level 50s are consuming the content.

 

I hope you realize that those numbers are not far off from Blizzard's own Vanilla raiding numbers where back around 2006, they stated that only 40% of their player accounts possessed one character that had even zoned into a raid zone prior to Burning Crusade's release.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Paralassa
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