ekwalizer Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Whats funny is the same knuckleheads that complained about getting to many dirt naps because of grav "spam" are still going to get owned. This change does nothing to help them out but Gunnery is still just as gimp in the 50 bracket as it was before...I was hoping the "nerf" would change the tree enough to actually reward good PVP play but this change won't cause me to dust of my geared up Mando for rateds...I will have to stick with my alt and just use my main for crafting..I didn't care for CM but at least that felt usefull and now they are *********** that up too. Exactly. I was an Arsenal Merc for about 2 months at 50 PvP. I finally got tired of all the Tracer Missile "hate" and respec'd Pyro. Now, I am far more survivable, output MORE DPS and generally having a lot more fun. The Grav/TM QQ crowd were just bads, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 If you thought sentinels were outperforming commandos you're seeing the complete opposite of everything I've seen in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Womacker Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 If you thought sentinels were outperforming commandos you're seeing the complete opposite of everything I've seen in game. Yeah Yeah Yeah..... I just LOVE it how my level 14 sent. can dish out more damage than my (true-he does heal) level 50 Valor 49 commando.... in WZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alecz Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I play a sorcerer as my main...Something is wrong when all you have to do is spam ... and get huge dps numbers in a wz. LoL - Sorcs no longer trolling just WZs. -------- I thought the idea was that our trade off was that we would be weak on defensive cooldowns, weak on CC's, have terrible resolve issues, and no interrupts... to get decent heals, decent dps, and decent general damage reduction. Now we get weak heals and weak dps? Sounds fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keinhoran Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Well they fixed the gunnery but the 10% nerf on CB affects not only gunnery lads..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mightywombat Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 you're right! we can kill snipers/gunslingers! and.................................. well, ya got me there..... But Yeah..... We ARE getting nerfed.... read the patch notes, and tell me straight to my face that Mercs/commandos are not getting nerfed! sure its a nerf if your one of those that only use the tracer missile/grav shot then its a big nerf..you should learn to use your abilities..crying over fixes...whats next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Womacker Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 sure its a nerf if your one of those that only use the tracer missile/grav shot then its a big nerf..you should learn to use your abilities..crying over fixes...whats next... Um.... lets see.... i am a TOTAL healer..... dont even have enough skill points in gunnery to be a grav round......... so really.... im getting a nerf... by trying NOT to do the obvious spam move........ Good job Bioware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFaceroll Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 sure its a nerf if your one of those that only use the tracer missile/grav shot then its a big nerf..you should learn to use your abilities..crying over fixes...whats next... When Gunnery spec'd my Commando already uses all his skills. Unfortunately one of his defensive skills is getting nerfed, as is one of his damage reducing traits. He will be even easier to kill, even if we completely ignore what's happening on the damage side of things. Were Gunnery spec Commandos hard to kill? Did they really need a nerf to their limited defensive capabilities? Is it crying to ask these questions, or are people just confused when one of the easiest classes to kill gets even easier to kill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keinhoran Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) sure its a nerf if your one of those that only use the tracer missile/grav shot then its a big nerf..you should learn to use your abilities..crying over fixes...whats next... Well as i said before 10% reduction on charged bolts does not effect only Gunnery. Guess which other tree is being hitted by that????? To give you a hint it is A_ _ _ _ _ _ tree. . Not to mention the combat medic tree . Edited March 26, 2012 by Keinhoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alecz Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Lets balance the nerf to damage and heals by getting one tiny modification to the class: 100% snare immunity. As an added bonus, make all CC's cause the same resolve across the board. Why should the trooper knockback/snare cause resolve but the 100% snare from a guardian cause 0 resolve? Edited March 26, 2012 by Alecz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zellfel Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Lets balance the nerf to damage and heals by getting one tiny modification to the class: 100% snare immunity. As an added bonus, make all CC's cause the same resolve across the board. Why should the trooper knockback/snare cause resolve but the 100% snare from a guardian cause 0 resolve? Because Guardians are now getting a stun on their charge instead that gives you 40% resolve that they cannot avoid getting. Edited March 26, 2012 by Zellfel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alecz Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Fair enough, unless they still get stunned with a full resolve bar. Anyhow, they need to clean up the resolve. Also, make Tenacity fill your resolve as well as clear current CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mightywombat Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 When Gunnery spec'd my Commando already uses all his skills. Unfortunately one of his defensive skills is getting nerfed, as is one of his damage reducing traits. He will be even easier to kill, even if we completely ignore what's happening on the damage side of things. Were Gunnery spec Commandos hard to kill? Did they really need a nerf to their limited defensive capabilities? Is it crying to ask these questions, or are people just confused when one of the easiest classes to kill gets even easier to kill? you get to use unload/full auto more..so you dont lose any damage..you might game some instead and the defence buff...lol your already running around in heavy armor...you are not a tank learn to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vishos Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Oh really and you can prove that ? lol http://dulfy.net/2012/02/24/some-numerical-population-data-for-swtor-servers/ http://dulfy.net/2012/03/01/numerical-swtor-population-data-for-pvprp-pvp-servers/ Top 3 pvp servers are higher pop than the best pve server... here is the information yo requested. the top 10 pvp servers are more populated than the top 10 pve servers, where its safe to assume people pvp on pve servers once you run out of content.... LOL.... Edited March 27, 2012 by Vishos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushtaka Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 The biggest issue I think we all have here is: the lack of defensive tools/utility or real CC Commandos/Mercenaries have at their disposal. Any of us who know this class knows a 10% reduction on Grav Round is not going to break jack-diddley, but when that damage reduction is forced upon us without giving us something to make up for that damage loss, and then we lose more defensive capabilities on top of that...well, it's complete and utter foolishness on Bioware's part. Now, keep in mind, most of my point of view is from a PvP angle: Okay, Demo Round increased by 10%, is that going to save us? No. It wont even matter unless the targets already nearly dead. And every 15 seconds is not going to really account for much in the way of "OMG BUFFF!!!". Full Auto going to be used more due to CoF increase? Ok, we still have to stand still to use it. Grav Round damage lowered, along with the defensive buff it gives us...double shot there, thanks for that one guys. And it's interruptable, oh and I think those sneaky Marauders get a free interrupt next patch...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Increased cooldown on our knockback...hmmm, did not see the increased time on Marauder/Sentinel leap...oh that's right... I've already hashed this out and typed this like 5 different ways, and it's getting old but you're seeing the same people in this thread making the same statements for a reason: we love this class, at least I do. I have a Sentinel and Shadow, both easy to play and have a ton of survivability and obviously do great damage, please do not tell me how hard those classes have it vs a Merc/Commando, just don't, especially when the whole "ranged" part becomes non-existant since we cannot keep them at range long enough to make a difference. While we're awaiting impending BS with this patch, those players are breaking out the kegs and BBQ pit and getting ready for the good times. TLDR: no, spamming Grav Round does not yield 300k+ in WZ's...no, we still will be the worst 1v1 class and a total liability to our team in organized PvP...yes, Bioware has no clue (yes, I'm a word master, I know)...yes melee has every advantage in this game...yes, melee in this game has it easier than in other games, trust me on this...yes, this game needs a "Melee Wars: The Old Republic" video sprayed all over the place before Bioware gets the picture...yes many people are going to cancel their subs due to this patch, oh well...yes, we're all going to be "forced" (again, I'm THAT good) into playing a Sent/Marauder or Shadow/Assassin just to have a chance at being competetive if things keep going this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunkShizzle Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 http://dulfy.net/2012/02/24/some-numerical-population-data-for-swtor-servers/ http://dulfy.net/2012/03/01/numerical-swtor-population-data-for-pvprp-pvp-servers/ Top 3 pvp servers are higher pop than the best pve server... here is the information yo requested. the top 10 pvp servers are more populated than the top 10 pve servers, where its safe to assume people pvp on pve servers once you run out of content.... LOL.... people pvp on pvp servers? enlighten me on where this pvp happens,because i guess im not seeing any.alderaan was probably the only zone ive seen so far that i actually saw the opposite faction and pvp in pvp servers seem like a joke in this game.there doesnt seem to be any pvp happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushtaka Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 http://dulfy.net/2012/02/24/some-numerical-population-data-for-swtor-servers/ http://dulfy.net/2012/03/01/numerical-swtor-population-data-for-pvprp-pvp-servers/ Top 3 pvp servers are higher pop than the best pve server... here is the information yo requested. the top 10 pvp servers are more populated than the top 10 pve servers, where its safe to assume people pvp on pve servers once you run out of content.... LOL.... Kinda figured that for The Fatman, that's my server and apparently word got out: we're seeing alot of re-rolls to our beloved server recently. That's good though, keeps it going strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushtaka Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 people pvp on pvp servers? enlighten me on where this pvp happens,because i guess im not seeing any.alderaan was probably the only zone ive seen so far that i actually saw the opposite faction and pvp in pvp servers seem like a joke in this game.there doesnt seem to be any pvp happening I saw PvP in nearly every zone where it was possible leveling up, mainly people trying to gank, just like in WoW tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vishos Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 people pvp on pvp servers? enlighten me on where this pvp happens,because i guess im not seeing any.alderaan was probably the only zone ive seen so far that i actually saw the opposite faction and pvp in pvp servers seem like a joke in this game.there doesnt seem to be any pvp happening im not the one responsible for poor game design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
originaltodzilla Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 But back to the simple fact that commandos are not "Special Forces" Bioware lied to you just like the commercials on TV show you how bad a** the military is and wants you to join. Then you find yourself cleaning toilets, moping and being yelled at after you sign that dotted line. Sounds familiar... Well when people think of a commando they think of a elite soldier capable of tactically handling any situation, given the best training and provided all the "Tools and the Skills"(bioware gave those to Sorcs and Maruders). Supposed to be able to basically win a war with a handful of them. You actually do in the story line...... But you wont in PVP because your a turret who is pigeon holed into spamming the same rotation from a distance, have no tools/ skills at your disposal to survive anything. Yo cant do anything but spam and die like cannon fodder. I think they should rename the class infantry and call it a day. because when 1.2 hits and you roll into a WZ u'll run out of ammo fast, be more squishy, damage output will be less, and yes you still have no utility to survive.... they gave u a gun told you to **** till your killed rinse and repeat, O and "DON'T MOVE". dont stop the enemy from doing anything (interrupt). just stand there shot and die. Awesomely said^^^^ This is totally the truth.. I know it is because I live it. I know going into PVP I will die at least 3 to 4x more than anyone, and no, it's not because I suck. It's because there is no survivability. I am actually ok with it, if I can go out in a blaze of glory taking Imps with me then it's a fair trade off. However the reality is when I go in, I'm lucky to clean up some of the near dead opponents, but usually get waxed pretty quick.. BTW Vishos, I'll be using parts of your post elsewhere, possibly in my signature!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mightywombat Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 only ones that will cancel are the bad commando's and will not be missed.learn to adapt, or get wiped out.patch isnt even live yet...chill.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vishos Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Awesomely said^^^^ This is totally the truth.. I know it is because I live it. I know going into PVP I will die at least 3 to 4x more than anyone, and no, it's not because I suck. It's because there is no survivability. I am actually ok with it, if I can go out in a blaze of glory taking Imps with me then it's a fair trade off. However the reality is when I go in, I'm lucky to clean up some of the near dead opponents, but usually get waxed pretty quick.. BTW Vishos, I'll be using parts of your post elsewhere, possibly in my signature!! Go for it and spread the word about the fails from our devs. When i get on my commando i basically play selfishly to avoid dying, go in get some kills stay away from large groups, hide in the back and pew pew. run away like a coward come back and kill some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletKnightBL Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I already canceled, waiting for a reason to resub, maybe they'll let me respec my level 50 to sent so I can actually dps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niconogood Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Medic Getting completely shafted. Less healing, less damage reduction, higher ammo consumption Gunnery Getting shafted. More damage taken, less surival/longer CD on Conc.Charge, less damage - 10% reduction on a skill we STILL have to spam is not by a longshot offset by 10% bonus on a skill with 15 sec CD and 10% higher procrate on a skill that still cant be procced more than once during the 12 sec CD. Assault Getting shafted. Less damage - Proc timer on HiB introduced, removing spikepossibility, 10% damage reduction on skill you have to cast to proc HiB. Still ridiculously immobile compared to vanguard counterpart. Total impression: no viable spec longer exists for competetive PvP play Alternatives: Reroll or quit the game Fact: Game already dying Conclusion: Unsub and wait for better game (DiabloIII/GW2) Edited March 29, 2012 by Niconogood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otaking_SW Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) I'm a 75 Assassin on a pvp server. I am the best Assassin on the server, having dueled and completely owned all other melee competitors empire side of any skill and regularly own the pub side ones as well. I have *never* had trouble killing any Merc build except healers and even those I just need a little time to work on them and line up interrupts and some burst. Some PTs give me trouble, plenty of Sent/Mara give me trouble. I only include the above e-peen waxing to give you the relative picture I have of Merc/Commando place on the current food chain...the bottom...so I believe you guys are right to complain of nerfs. I felt that healing overall was indeed a problem as on our server premades of hybrid healers won handily by spamming heals and hardly any other tactic. (Primarily sages though..some troopers were in these teams to be sure) However they are nerfing mercs/commandos into the dirt and not giving them enough to compensate as they are one of the weakest specs IMO right now. I have rolled a merc as the only ranged class to currently interest me after reaching sheer boredom with my assassin but I'm having little motivation to play something somewhat gimped currently and even more gimped in 1.2. The strengths of the class as I see it is ranged plus healing but healing is getting gimped and the ranged damage is getting nerfed slightly. If they are going to do these kinds of things to Merc/Commando they should let Arsenal (Don't know the Pub equivalent names ) be a truly mobile spec and beef up Pyro somehow as Pyro has a harder time accessing decent heals. Perhaps give more CC or burst to Pyro... I also find Merc the least 'bountyhunterish' spec as it barely uses jet pack, no carbonite, no grapple...kind of boring except for the gameplay strength of heals...which are getting nerfed... Edited March 29, 2012 by Otaking_SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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