Ceasaigh Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 This whole topic is dumb, PvP should be skill first gear 2nd. The whole purpose of competitive PvP is when you check my character panel, see my PvP rating is higher than yours and me LOLing at you cause I am better than you, and its justified cause my little number is better than your little number. Take a good long hard look at WoW's Arena history, it was most popular in Seasons 1 and 2, and why was it at its most popular? Its because everyone had access to the same gear and it was achievable by anyone willing to put the time in, the better player you were the faster you got your gears. Look at their tournament realms and even their e-sport competitions, everyone has access to the same gear. Once they introduced a rating req for gear Arena participation greatly and steadily declined as well as led to terrible gaming practices like win trading, carrying of baddies for gold/rl money etc....... BW is on the right track, and remember 1.2 launches just a PRE-SEASON, they technically do not need to give out anything for participating and when it comes down to it a good high rated player does not rely on gear for wins a less skilled player does, and with an equal gear footing there is no excuses, skill > everything But here in lies the argument as long as you have gear as the defining factor skill will never really play into it. A fully geared BM will simply smear a under geared Centurion, it doesn't matter the skill level of either player frankly. With Higher Expertise you simply mitigate more damage than someone with lower Expertise. You have the advantage with higher Expertise PERIOD. All you have to do is look at 10-49 PvP bracket. It's competitive because of the bolster and people are usually on level with there gear, so skill plays more into the equation because for the most part people have equal stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRamette Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Yeah yeah heard it all before fact is most geared players are skilled players ----> Not always, the people with no life who have time to sink into PvP get the gear too and they are not skilled, just have time on their hands An currently the players that play The most are rewarded With better gear---> So time = gear, once again not everyone has no life and time to sink into a game with families, kids, ect. Time = Gear And the knowledge/skill developed from playing to obtain said gear----> Really?? That is amusing, I have beat down some much higher levels who had played far more PvP then me and yet had no skill. Not everyone who has sunk time into PvP has skill, just no life and time to kill. You equalize the gear and those same player That play the most Will Still be at an advantage simply because they play more----> Yea that is the point of my original post, Those that whine about needing gear and pissed because those who are the same level will have gear like them are not skilled, they need the gear to win and have no skill. My retort. Edited March 25, 2012 by DarthRamette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaggz Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Just wanted to inform bioware that tons of the members of several pvp guilds on my server are quitting after the news that rated warzones will be the new valor grind, except any requirements at all. One large pvp guild also disbanded yesterday. Now I wonder, who's idea was it that "rated" pvp, would not mean squat? All they are doing now is seperating normal warzones from rated warzones, even if they will basically be exactly the same, just that rated will give better free gear. I will cancel sub and prolly play my month out like 80% of my pvp guild already have, but pvp just gets boring when there is nothing worth "working" for by playing organized. High warzone rating = no rewards worth mentioning, A LOT more effort. Low warzone rating = the same rewards as high rating, a lot LESS effort. Endgame pvp gear worth working for = None. Chance of getting bored from lack of worthwile "goals" pvp wise: High. You failed with Ilum, and now you fail with this. Both had good potential. Clickers and backpeddalers that run around playing rambo in pvp with no tactics in their head should NOT be awarded 100% as much as those who put more effort in it and play organized. Just like hardmodes gives better rewards than story mode in pve. Ok, I'm confused. So the OP is complaining that eventually everyone can get the same gear, although some will get it faster than others. So does this mean that his PvP guild and others who are quitting regard gear as the number one thing in PvP? I could've swore that skill, not gear trumps all in PvP. I mean, all things being equal (ie everyone eventually in War Hero Gear) wouldn't skill trump all? Wait, or does gear define skill.?.?.? So confused.... Do you mean the same people threatening to quit for GW2, which is also supposed to have competitive PvP where gear doesn't matter? ^^He answered it better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceasaigh Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 If everyone in a WZ had equal gear, lets say everyone in the WZ had the max Experience you can get. All 8 on each side had War Hero sets on..Then I would call this an even match and it would come down to skill and team work. Because no one has an advantage. It would come down to team dynamics, skill and how the classes match up with one another. You wouldn't have the disadvantage of a few people having low gear and expertise falling short causing the team to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzone Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 All you have to do is look at 10-49 PvP bracket. It's competitive because of the bolster and people are usually on level with there gear, so skill plays more into the equation because for the most part people have equal stats. What do <50 players get doing WZs that 50s don't get? Take your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedbroz Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 also they sky is falling down....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonoku Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I guess majority of people nowadays just think that gear determines pvp no it should not, Gear should be equal and skill teamwork and coordination should determine victory, don't make this become a gear base grind like it has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Person complaining: Gear needs to be in for the game to be competitive, if I can't get gear that gives me a large bonus over other players, the game isn't competitive and I'm leaving the game for GW2. Sensible person: Why GW2 Person complaining: Cuz gear won't matter in GW2 mmmmmmmmmmmmmk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicain Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 If everyone in a WZ had equal gear, lets say everyone in the WZ had the max Experience you can get. All 8 on each side had War Hero sets on..Then I would call this an even match and it would come down to skill and team work. Because no one has an advantage. It would come down to team dynamics, skill and how the classes match up with one another. You wouldn't have the disadvantage of a few people having low gear and expertise falling short causing the team to lose. This would benefit Pre made groups a bit to much if you actually think about it. Im not against pre-mades but a pre made group of naked 50s can get WM gear and end up rolling the PUG that gets WM gear also. So you'll see threads once this is patched, to end PUGs because that will be the complaint of the week for the pubs. It's true, just wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicain Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Yeah yeah heard it all before fact is most geared players are skilled players ----> Not always, the people with no life who have time to sink into PvP get the gear too and they are not skilled, just have time on their hands Why you mad? Why is everyone who is better than you someone with no life? Why the hostility? Why can't you handle the fact that other people learned to optimize the daily system and gear up fast? I played 3 hours a day, three days a week max and I made full BM. I probably have more of a life than you, and battlemaster gear buddy An currently the players that play The most are rewarded With better gear---> So time = gear, once again not everyone has no life and time to sink into a game with families, kids, ect. Time = Gear So because you have kids, he can't have a hard game to play which takes time and effort? So we need to model everything after the lowest common denominator? We're all really sorry you had kids and now have to split your time across real life and video games. Actually you look so busy that you probably should quit MMOs and leave them to people who want a hard game to invest time in. Do I hate anyone with better gear than mine? No, good for them. The fact you think the game should be watered down so you can progress at the rate YOU want and force the rest of us into that type of game, man you have an ego. And the knowledge/skill developed from playing to obtain said gear----> Really?? That is amusing, I have beat down some much higher levels who had played far more PvP then me and yet had no skill. Not everyone who has sunk time into PvP has skill, just no life and time to kill.Blah blah blah blah blah. You have NO idea what you're talking about and you keep going back to the no life thing. You know how pro football players get to the pro's? They spend as much time as they can practicing and getting better at it, the guy you keep slamming is putting the time into something to get better, thats why he's rolling you and why you're QQing. It shows me just how out o touch you are because you're actually coming down on someone who put time in something to get better at it. lolololololololz. You have kids too? Wow, the life lessons you're NOT teaching them is amazing, you can't even cope with an MMO, these children are going to be so maladjusted. You equalize the gear and those same player That play the most Will Still be at an advantage simply because they play more----> Yea that is the point of my original post, Those that whine about needing gear and pissed because those who are the same level will have gear like them are not skilled, they need the gear to win and have no skill.Actually it has to with time, you know that thing you're crying about not having enough of? He put his in, and now it's marginalized because someone like you wants the game to be carebeared out. That's the truth. You exposed yourself thought your entire post, YOU don't have the time to play and MMO so your answer is to trivialize it for your own enjoyment. And anyone who points this out, you call a no life loser. What a robust and well thought out argument, why you mad brah? I interjected myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 But here in lies the argument as long as you have gear as the defining factor skill will never really play into it. A fully geared BM will simply smear a under geared Centurion, it doesn't matter the skill level of either player frankly. With Higher Expertise you simply mitigate more damage than someone with lower Expertise. You have the advantage with higher Expertise PERIOD. All you have to do is look at 10-49 PvP bracket. It's competitive because of the bolster and people are usually on level with there gear, so skill plays more into the equation because for the most part people have equal stats. The 10-49 bracket is no different, and is worse actually. The 40+ that have most of their talents points absolutely destroy the lowbies that have very few talent points. Skill is not a factor in 10-49 either. At least at 50 I only have to suffer getting owned for a few days before I can get full cent/champ gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 For the love of GOD.... PRESEASON.... Quit if you like, My team will have the reps in when the real season starts and you will lose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnex Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 The 10-49 bracket is no different, and is worse actually. The 40+ that have most of their talents points absolutely destroy the lowbies that have very few talent points. Skill is not a factor in 10-49 either. At least at 50 I only have to suffer getting owned for a few days before I can get full cent/champ gear. Worse than that from 45 + you can already run around with ~4% expertise Also to all those that speak about skilled pvpers ..... how can you even use that term when different classes have lets call it playskill requirements. In regards of 1.2 and being the "Pre Season" patch : It just means they will allow everyone more or less the same access of gear and mostly once the Season start you will have access to better Gear depending how your Rating is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everax Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 none of this will matter when the next pvp mmo comes out this year..cause when it does...no one will still be here to care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenspiders Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 none of this will matter when the next pvp mmo comes out this year..cause when it does...no one will still be here to care I'll still be here, enjoying my game. As will my guild. And our Allied Guilds. As well as those who already invested time and money on the enemy faction. Think about it this way. If your a newbie 50 and the first 20 or so PVP matches you enter you lose (not just lose but get facestomped) you would get discouraged, and being discouraged would make you unsub. So say you don't unsub at that point and continue on to try and get gear to level the playing field. If you continually get rolled you wouldn't earn as many medals and the grind would become unbearably long. Again, another reason to unsub. Unsubs mean less players to PVP with. Which makes Queue times longer. Equalizing gear does two things; It makes it so people are willing to invest more time into PVP (making Queue times less of a burden, and makes sure you do not have warzones shut down mid battle because of lack of players), and you ensure that those who are actually good at PVP still rise to the top, and have proof to point to for bragging rights. Remember; you can suck at PVP and still get BM and WH sets. All it takes is time. Even if you lose you still get valor and commendations. Its inevitable so long as people keep plugging away. If you really want to be elite then a ranked Warzone is the way to go, instead of some silly armor that, given enough time, everyone in the game has a chance to get. I know change can be hard, but no MMO remains static. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicain Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 For the love of GOD.... PRESEASON.... Quit if you like, My team will have the reps in when the real season starts and you will lose! YOu guys and your preseason make me lol. Yes your team will probably beat up on whoever is left because it will be like nine people who are such fan boys that they couldn't dream of playing anything not star wars. Those competitive gamers who want a challenge in their game, will have shuffled off to another game. So yes once the changes you want are in you'll finally be that SW god you envisioned yourself and you h ave to put in zero time to get it. Only you'll be on a dead game on a dead server because no one just wants to burn time getting everything for nothing, with no work. So enjoy being spoon fed while you play Hello Kitty Adventure Island with lightsabers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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