Leoness Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 There should be NO CHARACTER PROGRESSION at all in a game like this. If you want character progression go play an mmorpg. In this game all non NPCs should look exactly the same, have the exact same abilities and be completely indistinguisable from one another. This is so everyone can have everything all the time so nothing has any value what-so-ever and nobody ever gets jelous or upset. After all $15 is the same whoever paid it, so everyone who pays should get EVERYTHING they possibly can. It's the only fair way. CLEAR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriasx Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) There should be NO CHARACTER PROGRESSION at all in a game like this. If you want character progression go play an mmorpg. In this game all non NPCs should look exactly the same, have the exact same abilities and be completely indistinguisable from one another. This is so everyone can have everything all the time so nothing has any value what-so-ever and nobody ever gets jelous or upset. After all $15 is the same whoever paid it, so everyone who pays should get EVERYTHING they possibly can. It's the only fair way. CLEAR? Gear can look different, some people actually care what their toon looks like and I'm ok with that, personally I could not care less what my toon looks like barring pink/purple outfits. The part you are having trouble understanding is we dont want free gear, I dont want super amazing gear that will smite my foes for me, I want to outplay my opponent in the same stated gear so when I kicked his arse I will have outplayed him and there is no way for him to argue that point, same goes for when some guy rolls over me in the same stated gear, obviously he was just better than I am but here is the kicker. When a guy who beats the living crap out of you has the same stats as you then you can use that knowledge to better yourself for next time, through your 41 pt build or your groups composition or maybe an ability you have that you were not using to its potential or at the right time, maybe you will have to rewrok your cast order. Without gear you know the winner won through his ability which puts all the responsibility on you to better yourself. Yes, obviously you were being sarcastic I get it, now please try to get why we dont care about shiny gear or its progression path in the first place. Edited March 25, 2012 by Seriasx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) I like the competition of pvp but I also enjoy Increasing my characters stats makeing it the best it can be for its level For me this is a fun part of the game Pvp would fast become boring without the gear progression In wow before they made it difficult to twink I would plan my progression so that at every 9th Lvl like 19 29 I would have the best gear available for my class It's a fun part of mmo's why do people feel this needs to change Even moder fps games have progression Just play the game so what if a bm geared player rolls you In time with effort you can be that bm geared player Also to the everything has to be even crowd If a player takes the time to research the best gear and stats and rotations for their class Opposed to someone just given it without knowing th full meaning of the stats and rotations involved who do you thinks going to win Edited March 25, 2012 by denpic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groncho Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I like the competition of pvp but I also enjoy Increasing my characters stats makeing it the best it can be for its level For me this is a fun part of the game Pvp would fast become boring without the gear progression In wow before they made it difficult to twink I would plan my progression so that at every 9th Lvl like 19 29 I would have the best gear available for my class It's a fun part of mmo's why do people feel this needs to change Even moder fps games have progression Just play the game so what if a bm geared player rolls you In time with effort you can be that bm geared player i can feel what u want u need STARWOW maybe u gunna get lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriasx Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I like the competition of pvp but I also enjoy Increasing my characters stats makeing it the best it can be for its level For me this is a fun part of the game Pvp would fast become boring without the gear progression In wow before they made it difficult to twink I would plan my progression so that at every 9th Lvl like 19 29 I would have the best gear available for my class It's a fun part of mmo's why do people feel this needs to change Even moder fps games have progression Just play the game so what if a bm geared player rolls you In time with effort you can be that bm geared player The part you dont seem to get is I am the BM geared player and I am also the one who wants gear progression removed from pvp so I can actually enjoy pvp. Competitive gameplay is why I play mmos, I dont give a **** about gold, purple, yellow, green, blue, orange or purple weapons/chest/legs/etc... We are faced with a choice between competitive gameplay or matches where you know what will happen before the match timer has started but you can have pretty gear? I just dont get how anyone needs a carrot for participating in what should be a more competitve game than say killing npc dragons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyseus Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) This whole topic is dumb, PvP should be skill first gear 2nd. The whole purpose of competitive PvP is when you check my character panel, see my PvP rating is higher than yours and me LOLing at you cause I am better than you, and its justified cause my little number is better than your little number. Take a good long hard look at WoW's Arena history, it was most popular in Seasons 1 and 2, and why was it at its most popular? Its because everyone had access to the same gear and it was achievable by anyone willing to put the time in, the better player you were the faster you got your gears. Look at their tournament realms and even their e-sport competitions, everyone has access to the same gear. Once they introduced a rating req for gear Arena participation greatly and steadily declined as well as led to terrible gaming practices like win trading, carrying of baddies for gold/rl money etc....... This respnose is so full of win; you've saved me the time it would of taken me to write pretty much the same thing. Excellent post. However, the sad fact is people like the OP tend to a favor a system where only a select few have the best gear. To them it's not about skill, it's about them having things that others don't. They failed to realize that in order to make an MMO sucsessful, it would be wise to allow everyone to eventually get most of the best gear possible, the biggest difference being that the more skilled and organized players will attain them first. Edited March 25, 2012 by Odyseus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockerz Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) I like the competition of pvp but I also enjoy Increasing my characters stats makeing it the best it can be for its level For me this is a fun part of the game Pvp would fast become boring without the gear progression In wow before they made it difficult to twink I would plan my progression so that at every 9th Lvl like 19 29 I would have the best gear available for my class It's a fun part of mmo's why do people feel this needs to change Even moder fps games have progression Just play the game so what if a bm geared player rolls you In time with effort you can be that bm geared player Perhaps you want to go back to the old pvp gear progression where you needed to do pve to pvp. That's real pvp gear progression not this cheap valor or rated system. I bet most of self appointed hardcore players wouldn't stomach having to do pve to get pvp gear like how you needed in vanilla wow or older mmorpgs. Hardcore pvpers should have to do pve to get the best pvp gear cause only pve has real gear progression. Edited March 25, 2012 by Knockerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriasx Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Perhaps you want to go back to old pvp gear progression where you needed to do pve to pvp. That's real pvp gear progression not this cheap valor or rated system. This, if all the best gear was pve aquired in the open world it would be amazing and one of only two ways I would be fine with gear progression in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Perhaps you want to go back to the old pvp gear progression where you needed to do pve to pvp. That's real pvp gear progression not this cheap valor or rated system. I bet most of self appointed hardcore players wouldn't stomach having to do pve to get pvp gear like how you needed in vanilla wow or older mmorpgs. These pvp scrubs want gear handed to them. They should have to do pve to get the best pvp gear cause only pve has real gear progression. I'm fine with having to pve for better gear And you'll find that some pve gear in this game is on fact better than the pvp eqiv I play all aspects of this game and will use every part of it to my advantage Edited March 25, 2012 by denpic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockerz Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 This, if all the best gear was pve aquired in the open world it would be amazing and one of only two ways I would be fine with gear progression in pvp. Only problem is guilds or a faction monopolizing the world bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaManoNera Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 PvP =/= progression PvP = competition You won't be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viscerus Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I unsubbed because of this game's lack of real PvP support. 3 warzones and one completely broken open-world pvp zone is pathetic for a game that cost as much to make as this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnEvilBus Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) " but pvp just gets boring when there is nothing worth "working" for by playing organized. " for fun? isn't that the aim for pvp, rather than rewards? Edited March 25, 2012 by AnEvilBus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRamette Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 If you rely on gear instead of skill then you are not a good PvPer. PvP should be about skill not a gear crutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 " but pvp just gets boring when there is nothing worth "working" for by playing organized. " for fun? isn't that the aim for pvp, rather than rewards? Its a combination of both fun and reward and it keeps players comming back I enjoyed wows pvp Reward System And the only reason I'm not still playing that is Because I'm so over dragon slaying and the fantasy theme mmorpg in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) If you rely on gear instead of skill then you are not a good PvPer. PvP should be about skill not a gear crutch. Yeah yeah heard it all before fact is most geared players are skilled players An currently the players that play The most are rewarded With better gear And the knowledge/skill developed from playing to obtain said gear You equalize the gear and those same player That play the most Will Still be at an advantage simply because they play more Edited March 25, 2012 by denpic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodingo Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 You equalize the gear and those same player That play the most Will Still be at an advantage simply because they play more Great! So what's the issue then about a level playing field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Great! So what's the issue then about a level playing field? Nothing at all But for most players myself included Its a combination of Fun and rewards and character progression We like to see our numbers increase we like to tweak our stats It would be Extremely boring for me if you abilities only hit for xx damage And you had no way it Increase It Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodingo Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Nothing at all But for most players myself included Its a combination of Fun and rewards and character progression We like to see our numbers increase we like to tweak our stats It would be Extremely boring for me if you abilities only hit for xx damage And you had no way it Increase It I can completely understand that. My question is then this, does that increase in stats HAVE to be in the form of expertise? Do you really care if a pve'er can wear their top level gear also to increase their stats as well? After all, if someone is "good" at pvp, and their gear matches the pve'er, wouldn't the pvp'er win the fight unless the pve'er actually pvps too AND is also better skilled than the guy who only pvps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSunshine Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I dunno where these people are getting the War Hero does not require progression stuff. Check the PTS, in order to get say WH Boots you have to have the BM boots as well as a ton of comms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) I can completely understand that. My question is then this, does that increase in stats HAVE to be in the form of expertise? Do you really care if a pve'er can wear their top level gear also to increase their stats as well? After all, if someone is "good" at pvp, and their gear matches the pve'er, wouldn't the pvp'er win the fight unless the pve'er actually pvps too AND is also better skilled than the guy who only pvps? I don't personally see expertise to be a neccecary stat And in my experience the better player usually does both pve And pvp and doesn't exclude themselves for certain aspects of the game gear progression in either pvp or pve should allow you to function In all aspects of the game If your in top tier pve gear you should be able to compete Against players in top tier pvp gear and vice versa But if your a fresh 50 in greens you should have a hard time against a 50 In Better gear As incentive to get better gear And this is the heart Of the Problem because there is a large gap between 50 greens And end game raid and pvp gear it seem someplayers don't want to do the in between stuff To shorten the gap Edited March 25, 2012 by denpic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulmhof Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) PvP guild are quitting because you can't roflstomp everyone who decided to play a warzone all the damn time? That is the funniest thing I heard. I remember when being a SKILLED PvP'r mattered more than some stupid gear progression. Good riddance to all those carebear PvP guilds then. I guess your Empire bandwagon train is going to get more empty now. It takes no skill to be successful at PvP in this game. It takes no skill to get the best gear in PvP in this game. It takes no skill to be successful at this game. There is no gap between well skilled players and casual skill players in this game. All you sheltered WoW noobs are ridiculous. Arena/Warzone ratings have never meant anything in any game. Shame on EAware for being so naive when they already have a 10year old game that REAL pvp'ers still play because of it's flawless incentive. Edited March 25, 2012 by Kulmhof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetickone Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 didnt we already cross this threshold in 1.1.5 when everyone and they alt is a BM....its not a pvp game and BW clearly has no interest in making it one....even the pve is carebare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetickone Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Yeah yeah heard it all before fact is most geared players are skilled players An currently the players that play The most are rewarded With better gear And the knowledge/skill developed from playing to obtain said gear You equalize the gear and those same player That play the most Will Still be at an advantage simply because they play more this might have been true pre 1.1.5. Now its a laughable and embarrassing suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMalus Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I never thought I'd see so much whining in one thread. Thanks for all the laughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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