guard

[raesti]

the two biggest problems I have are guarded healers especially merchant one's with their anti interupt shield and defensive Cd. think a solution for this would be to have the tank still take 50% damage but only have it mitigate 25-30% on the target. reason being then a tank could still taunt to reduce a dps damage and would require the tank to pay attention to the healer they do have guarded. plus it wouldn't make this so an effort in futility to try and kill one. I have seen merc thealer tank 4+ dps while guard and not have their hp not move and if you switch to the tank they just start free healing. what do you all think

[D-Jay]

the two biggest problems I have are guarded healers especially merchant one's with their anti interupt shield and defensive Cd. think a solution for this would be to have the tank still take 50% damage but only have it mitigate 25-30% on the target. reason being then a tank could still taunt to reduce a dps damage and would require the tank to pay attention to the healer they do have guarded. plus it wouldn't make this so an effort in futility to try and kill one. I have seen merc thealer tank 4+ dps while guard and not have their hp not move and if you switch to the tank they just start free healing. what do you all think

 

So the logical thing would be to have 2 on the tank and 2 on the healer, would it not.

The thing is with all these nerf posts, people really need to look at how they are playing, rather than calling for nerfs.

Edited March 17, 2012 by D-Jay

[raesti]

should not take half your team to kill one healer is the issue. and if there are two healers and two tanks you are supposed to you your whole team? reason I say healer is that is what the goal would be to eliminate the force mutliplier.

[warkat]

once u get gear a dps vanguard/maurder can turn in burn a guarded merc healer. If they nerf it the second we turn the healer will just go splat. Edited March 17, 2012 by warkat

[D-Jay]

should not take half your team to kill one healer is the issue. and if there are two healers and two tanks you are supposed to you your whole team? reason I say healer is that is what the goal would be to eliminate the force mutliplier.

 

It's not taking half a team to kill 1 person, its half a team to kill 2 people in 8-10 seconds, move on to the next targets, rinse and repeat. And you say whole team, if the whole team isn't contributing to taking down the important targets first, again, it's not nerfs that are the answer, but people's play.

Edited March 17, 2012 by D-Jay

[_Kayko_]

I personally think that Guard should be a temporary ability, not a put on a target and stay close ability.

 

The Guard on a Healer then add in how Taunt works might be a little strong in it's current state for PvP. I know the range on Guard kind of sucks and it does take some coordination for it to work properly, but the skill cap for its use is still too low IMO. Maybe increase the range but have it a 10 second duration on a 30 second CD or something to that nature (not definitive numbers, just an example of the idea as a whole.) That might just might create PvE encounters that have more attacks that are range specific and make it have better use then having to run to the target that needs guarding (which if far enough away are most likely dead before you get into range) while making it a more strategy based ability in PvP.

[raesti]

if a guarded merc healer is going splat to a mara he is playing wrong or really undergeared. between taunt if the tank is paying attention and the guard that is an 80% damage reduction. not to mention his defensive bubble for 12 seconds and that he can be uninteruptable for a little bit. if not decrease the damage it mitigate then make it fall off if they get out of range and it has to be reapplied. least have the tanks have to pay attention to their guarded target.

[Azrienov]

I personally think that Guard should be a temporary ability, not a put on a target and stay close ability.

 

The Guard on a Healer then add in how Taunt works might be a little strong in it's current state for PvP. I know the range on Guard kind of sucks and it does take some coordination for it to work properly, but the skill cap for its use is still too low IMO. Maybe increase the range but have it a 10 second duration on a 30 second CD or something to that nature (not definitive numbers, just an example of the idea as a whole.) That might just might create PvE encounters that have more attacks that are range specific and make it have better use then having to run to the target that needs guarding (which if far enough away are most likely dead before you get into range) while making it a more strategy based ability in PvP.

 

Clearly you haven't played a tank that guards anyone.

[Lidasel]

the two biggest problems I have are guarded healers especially merchant one's with their anti interupt shield and defensive Cd.

 

 

Damn you merchant-Bounty Hunters! They always throw their money at me until i'm dead :s

Edited March 17, 2012 by Lidasel

[D-Jay]

Just like every other nerf thread, solo pug players losing to coordinated team play, with the solo player crying how unfair it is. Edited March 17, 2012 by D-Jay

[Vaipyr]

ITT: Moar DPS!ers mad that tanks are actually semi viable in pvp for once.

But by all means, nerf them so that just like EVERY other MMO tanks are worthless for PvP simply because DPS!ers can't be arsed to l2p instead of just facerolling damage until people die as has been the industry standard for years.

[_Kayko_]

Clearly you haven't played a tank that guards anyone.

 

Enlighten me then...

 

I have been a part of a healer/tank combo many times and it currently is extremely strong. Attack the healer who essentially takes 55% reduced damage, or target the tank who has a healer focused on them? (edit/addition part - It is also easier for a healer to focus themselves (and I know Healing Sages/Sorcs have increased healing on themselves, would assume other healers have this too) then to keep someone else alive, options are somewhat limited to counter Guard)

 

I understand how the ability works and the better ways to counter it, but also understand that 5% damage reduction is still a fairly large amount when you consider that it is 50% more damage reduction then the current accepted expertise amount. It is about a 2% increase damage reduction between Centurion gear and Battlemaster gear and we all know how easy it is for a BM geared player (or even a champ geared) to beat down a Cent geared one.

 

It just is a very strong ability in PvP considering it has no upkeep time.

 

I'm not saying nerf it to the ground, I have no quarrels with the damage reduction being increased or its range getting increased. Just feel the skill cap is too low for what it does and in PvE, it can be used as a more valuable reaction type tool with a larger range and stronger stat values.

Edited March 17, 2012 by _Kayko_

[Bbizzle]

Show me a vanguard putting up 900k voidstar in assualt (the burst spec) with the ammo issues that spec has.

 

Until I see screen shots its a complete overexxageration.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Kuzukaze]

They can make guard, something like templars bodyguard in aion.

30 sec buffed(with more range) 2 min CD.

[Lymain]

Guard is fine, just need more burst DPS (un-nerf Operatives, maybe).

[D-Jay]

Enlighten me then...

 

I have been a part of a healer/tank combo many times and it currently is extremely strong. Attack the healer who essentially takes 55% reduced damage, or target the tank who has a healer focused on them?

 

I understand how the ability works and the best ways to counter it, but also understand that 5% damage reduction is still a fairly large amount when you consider that it is 50% more damage reduction then the current accepted expertise amount. It is about a 2% increase damage reduction between Centurion gear and Battlemaster gear and we all know how easy it is for a BM geared player (or even a champ geared) to beat down a Cent geared one.

 

It just is a very strong ability in PvP considering it has no upkeep time.

 

I'm not saying nerf it to the ground, I have no quarrels with the damage reduction being increased or its range getting increased. Just feel the skill cap is too low for what it does and in PvE, it can be used as a more valuable reaction type tool with a larger range and stronger stat values.

 

Attack both? The last time I counted, warzones were 8 a side.

Edited March 17, 2012 by D-Jay

[raesti]

yeah my phone likes to change merc to merchant. and I am not saying it needs a nerf it just needs to be changed somehow. it is a fire and forget ability so either it needs to be toned down or have a mechanic that makes you pay attention. looking for constructive feedback. if you don't think it should be change say why not l2p. there are a few good suggestion on here.

[_Kayko_]

Attack both?

 

Understood, though the fact of the ability is that it has a low skill factor with has a large impact on how damage is distributed.

 

I don't care if the ability made the target immune to damage for 8 seconds (long enough for 2 stuns that don't break on damage) and redirected 50% of damage to the tank. If it was on a CD, it would become a skill based ability usable for the whatever the situation called for. Maybe they could put in a boss ability that roots a ranged player and does X amount of damage, guard could be tossed up and used that way, or in PvP, You have your healer running with you and close to a score, pop Guard and they healer can now stand in the fire pit and heal you as you stroll to the goal.

[D-Jay]

yeah my phone likes to change merc to merchant. and I am not saying it needs a nerf it just needs to be changed somehow. it is a fire and forget ability so either it needs to be toned down or have a mechanic that makes you pay attention. looking for constructive feedback. if you don't think it should be change say why not l2p. there are a few good suggestion on here.

 

It is far from a 'fire and forget' ability, the 15 meter range applies. CC tank, harpoon healer a potential 30 meters away, pound away with no guard.

Edited March 17, 2012 by D-Jay

[Lymain]

It is far from a 'fire and forget' ability, the 15 meter range applies.

 

And you often want to switch your target, and sometimes you want to toggle it off completely.

[fadingdimension]

Understood, though the fact of the ability is that it has a low skill factor with has a large impact on how damage is distributed.

 

I agree with this... As a 50 jugg. Taunts really don't take much effort for the impact they have and being on a short cd. I mean I see someone getting attacked I use my off global taunt. I'm in a big battle I pop my AoE taunt that's also off global. Put guard on someone and then go about smacking people. This stacks up incredible amounts of protection basically all passive.

 

It's not even that satisfying or fun. There's no real immediate feedback that you can see. When the scoreboard pops you can see your protection. During combat though it really has no visual effect or satisfaction.

 

Even as a dps spec Jugg you sacrifice no damage to use taunts. None. They are off global and free of any cost.

 

How to fix this without making tanks nonviable in pvp? Hmm. I do like the idea of making Guard have a duration maybe. Make taunts have some sort of trade off. Maybe increased damage to you in pvp during the duration (makes sense since they do less damage to everyone else). Also add some form of feedback so tanks can see the impact they are having at the moment. For instance add in "Protection" flytext so you can see how much damage you're absorbing/mitigating.

 

Shrug

[Lymain]

I agree with this... As a 50 jugg. Taunts really don't take much effort for the impact they have and being on a short cd. I mean I see someone getting attacked I use my off global taunt.

 

This is why I hated the Operative nerf as a Jugg. I considered myself an anti-burst class, using guard, taunts, and CC to screw up burst classes, and I sure as heck saw the impact I had on Operatives in particular. But with the buff stacking nerf...then the Operative nerf...then the Surge nerf...that role is pretty boring now.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Lymain

[Amp_]

Might help if they tied the full potential of Guard to the tanking tree. Make the base Guard do something like 20%, and then somewhere in the tank tree it can be boosted back up to it's current state. That way you don't have dps specs running around with the full ability.

 

The tank tree also has a lot of available points for shields (too much), which is not terribly useful for pvp. One of the boxes in the tree can be adjusted to Guard % instead. Probably not an optimal solution, but may help to alleviate some of the frequency of incredibly strong guarded players.

[raesti]

Might help if they tied the full potential of Guard to the tanking tree. Make the base Guard do something like 20%, and then somewhere in the tank tree it can be boosted back up to it's current state. That way you don't have dps specs running around with the full ability.

 

The tank tree also has a lot of available points for shields (too much), which is not terribly useful for pvp. One of the boxes in the tree can be adjusted to Guard % instead. Probably not an optimal solution, but may help to alleviate some of the frequency of incredibly strong guarded players.

 

I like this idea but don't see much need to get rid of the shield talent already there. plus some of the other suggestion on making it more of an active ability have been really thought out. seems most of the tanks posting want to make guard feel like it is an ability that they have to contribute to use effectively rather then a passive just stay in range.

[_Kayko_]

Might help if they tied the full potential of Guard to the tanking tree. Make the base Guard do something like 20%, and then somewhere in the tank tree it can be boosted back up to it's current state. That way you don't have dps specs running around with the full ability.

 

The tank tree also has a lot of available points for shields (too much), which is not terribly useful for pvp. One of the boxes in the tree can be adjusted to Guard % instead. Probably not an optimal solution, but may help to alleviate some of the frequency of incredibly strong guarded players.

 

While this may be a short term solution, I don't think it is a very interesting one. I think that it would be great for non tank specs/classes to be able to fill a tank type roll for a short amount of time with proper available cool downs. I played WoW for a very long time and was always big fan of the "OH CRAP!!" type CD's (Rogue Evasion/S. Priest Dispersion/Hunter Deterrence) I think the classes having these types of abilities can create more dynamic PvE content and can also make great PvPers near immortal when used in the exacting unique situation.

 

The deal with Guard is that there is such limited thought put into how it is used, especially when it comes to PvP. Find a target near near you and guard and forget (until that target sprints off out of range..... since you tanks like to put it on Cons/Sorcs knowing full well that is exactly what we will end up doing to you! lol )

 

Just picture it having a stronger effect but having to be used situational? A non tank class having the ability to grab an add in PvE and dragging it over to the tank all because you as even DPS was able to make that happen without that player dieing. Or in PvP, your healer or dps support is about to die but you have more support on the way.. keep that player alive a few seconds longer just because you saved your "Oh Crap" CD for just that type of occasion.