Will SWTOR be able to compete with upcoming MMOs?

[Marmerus]

Everyone is talking about TERA. It looks good, and if it delivers on Soul Caliberlike PvP it will be a hit im sure. What i'm watching is "Secret World" tho. It's theme and content look compelling for the MMO genre. I think it will be a sleeper hit like WoW was ages ago.

Swing animations and cast animations is probably going to be game breaking in PVP. And it is nothing like Soul Calibur. Its more like a Double Dragon clone in 3D with better graphics and against players.

[nilbymouth]

I very much hope that it's a massive disappointment and GW2 will be the "Heaven's Gate" for MMOs.

 

See I never hope a game fails. I want good games on the market that appeal to the different desires of gamers and push each other to produce better content and game mechanics.

 

I dont want Swtor to die but I do want a better pvp experience than it has to offer. So hopefully a game will come up with that. I hope that will be GW2. I wont know until it launches but I do know it is a game that has a heavy focus on pvp which is something that swtor does not. This game focuses on other aspects and caters for other types of gamers and I have no expectation that it will ever try to cater for me and my wants. Im fine with that.

[Rouge]

Everyone is talking about TERA. It looks good, and if it delivers on Soul Caliberlike PvP it will be a hit im sure. What i'm watching is "Secret World" tho. It's theme and content look compelling for the MMO genre. I think it will be a sleeper hit like WoW was ages ago.

 

TERA has done relatively badly in South Korea. It's European publisher is relatively small and concentrates on F2P games, it's NA one has done badly with MMOs in the past. It's very much like so many F2P-as-long-as-you-don't-count-credit-card-purchases Asian MMOs and Aion is going F2P partly to combat it in NA and EU. I don't think it will do well.

 

The Secret World... I have a soft spot for Funcom, and I hope they finish and polish the game this time, but some of their claims - like how the game is supposedly extremely difficult to play as a soloer - seem like they have been doing a game that even if it is really good will find just a niche audience. But if that niche audience is even 200 000 - 300 000 persons for years, we might yet to see more MMOs from Funcom.

[Rouge]

I hope that will be GW2. I wont know until it launches but I do know it is a game that has a heavy focus on pvp which is something that swtor does not.

 

From what I have read about GW2's PvP, you will be disappointed. It might work, but more likely it won't. We'll know this time next year, though.

 

But my hopes are on DMO when it comes to large-scale PvP, although that game probably has a higher than a 50 percent chance to be cancelled.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Rouge

[Marmerus]

TERA has done relatively badly in South Korea. It's European publisher is relatively small and concentrates on F2P games, it's NA one has done badly with MMOs in the past. It's very much like so many F2P-as-long-as-you-don't-count-credit-card-purchases Asian MMOs and Aion is going F2P partly to combat it in NA and EU. I don't think it will do well.

 

The Secret World... I have a soft spot for Funcom, and I hope they finish and polish the game this time, but some of their claims - like how the game is supposedly extremely difficult to play as a soloer - seem like they have been doing a game that even if it is really good will find just a niche audience. But if that niche audience is even 200 000 - 300 000 persons for years, we might yet to see more MMOs from Funcom.

Tera failed in Korea because the lack of content. It has more content now but still a very thin game. So I think it will fail in Europe on the same way.

 

Funcom failed hard with Age of Conan because they did just like Bioware and made a WoW clone but forgot to add the important things and tried to live on hype and fanboys of the lore.

I like the graphical design and story of their next MMO but since they have not yet fixed Age of Conan I doubt they will pay much attention to the flaws in their future MMOs. Age of Conan still has so much potential and they can do so much to fix the game and beat other smaller MMOs. A simple thing is to mix paying players and free 2 play players in lower tier dungeons and make a LFG tool to help people group up for them.

Also make the game work better on newer computer and high end systems.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Marmerus

[nilbymouth]

From what I have read about GW2's PvP, you will be disappointed. It might work, but more likely it won't.

 

Well that is very helpful, insightful and your detailed analysis has dampened any expectations I may have had.

[Rouge]

Well that is very helpful, insightful and your detailed analysis has dampened any expectations I may have had.

 

These are not GW2 forums. Let's just say that I expect that most GW2 players will play little world vs world PvP and that we will get a lot of screams how their PvP system is just a weak alternative to "real" end-game content with super-hard raids where failure is what real elite gamers want.

[nilbymouth]

These are not GW2 forums.

 

Yeah I know. I just think that there are too many 'lol [gamename] will fail' comments. So thanks for fleshing out your reply a bit more. You could be right.

 

I still dont hope this or any other game will fail. Makes me feel like a minority.

[Scoobings]

Like was said earlier, I'm just tired to death of fantasy MMOs. Can't we get just a little more creative than that?

[Marmerus]

Yeah I know. I just think that there are too many 'lol [gamename] will fail' comments. So thanks for fleshing out your reply a bit more. You could be right.

 

I still dont hope this or any other game will fail. Makes me feel like a minority.

You could always download and watch the PVP movies from GW2. So far it looks very much like low level WoW battleground style combat with very few abilities changed between stances (weapons). Gives a very console type feeling and looks to be aimed at very casual gaming.

So I don't think you will find any hardcore content in the game. But more like enjoyable casual gaming for everyone.

[Frostvein]

Yeah I know. I just think that there are too many 'lol [gamename] will fail' comments. So thanks for fleshing out your reply a bit more. You could be right.

 

I still dont hope this or any other game will fail. Makes me feel like a minority.

 

I don't want games to fail, either. But I don't want the developers to take shortcuts and/or fail to deliver on a product. If they do (and this isn't even a reference to ToR) I don't think they should exactly stay afloat either.

[Rouge]

Like was said earlier, I'm just tired to death of fantasy MMOs. Can't we get just a little more creative than that?

 

Funcom tries to do that with it's conspiracy&horror MMO The Secret World, set in the current era on Earth. If it fails, trying to do something different with the setting won't - shouldn't - be the cause if people really are tired of fantasy MMOs.

 

(EA, by the way, seems to have a nice line-up in MMOs when it comes to variety; SWTOR is the space MMO, TSW will be an alternative/horror MMO, Kingdoms of Amalur MMO will be the fantasy MMO etc.)

[obinon]

no they cannot if they going same direction what they they we need server merge and nothing else.

 

When GW2 is here i gonna play that and leave this **** alone

[Khaunshar]

I don't want games to fail, either. But I don't want the developers to take shortcuts and/or fail to deliver on a product. If they do (and this isn't even a reference to ToR) I don't think they should exactly stay afloat either.

 

Since 2004 all MMOs except for WoW have supposedly been failures. So, a solid 7 years of nothing but bad product, greedy and incompetent developers no matter which company they are from, and reasons to flame and spit venom on forums.

 

Sometimes, when enough times has passed, people list the older smaller MMOs that are still around as "yeah they kinda werent that bad in the end, but i never resubbed regardless, meh", such as EVE, LotRO, EQ2 and others.

 

As a matter of fact, anyone trying to get me to believe that for 8 years, the entire industry is not capable of delivering a decent product, is expecting too much. Even incompetence does not happen that regularly.

 

The problem is the mix of expectations and the demand of the playerbase being too diverse. And WoW is, mainly, as successful because for an entire generation of gamers, or even two, it has become the fallback option to sate the hunger, which gives it some funny sort of un-life on some servers, where people are constantly flying circles in Stormwind or Orgrimmar, and talk about other games.

 

It doesnt, however, present a "better" game. Its just convenient.

 

And as long as WoW does well, innovation is dead. It just doesnt pay

[Tiam]

I very much hope that it's a massive disappointment and GW2 will be the "Heaven's Gate" for MMOs.

 

Not that the ArenaNet devs would be a collective embodiment of all evil, but because their fans are a real nuisance and hyping that game like there would be no reason to do or play any other MMOs after it launches.

 

 

I believe you'll be the one disappointed mid year when servers are merged and there are only a few hundred thousand people left in SWTOR to play with. I'm not saying GW2 is the best but when it comes to pvp we'll have to see. SWTOR doesn't get it done with pvp. The last 2 games I played that had good open world pvp were Dark Age of Camelot and Planetside. Nothing will ever compare to DAOC world pvp I don't think, but I can dream.

[Rouge]

no they cannot if they going same direction what they they we need server merge and nothing else.

 

When GW2 is here i gonna play that and leave this **** alone

 

So, you demand server mergers and intend to leave SWTOR for GW2 anyway...

[Akash]

I actually had an intesting discussion with a game developer last night about all this. He says his industry keeps recycling the same blood in MMO design with the same ideas, and anybody new that comes on has to accept those same ideas.

 

Any kind of change from the "proven money-making formula" is viewed as heresy.

 

The reason we keep getting the same product over and over is because new ideas simply aren't given the resources to be developed to their extent, because nobody is willing to risk big bucks on a new and unproven formula when they have a current formula that will make money if it's just marketed correctly.

[Tarka]

Tera failed in Korea because the lack of content. It has more content now but still a very thin game. So I think it will fail in Europe on the same way.

 

Funcom failed hard with Age of Conan because they did just like Bioware and made a WoW clone but forgot to add the important things and tried to live on hype and fanboys of the lore.

I like the graphical design and story of their next MMO but since they have not yet fixed Age of Conan I doubt they will pay much attention to the flaws in their future MMOs. Age of Conan still has so much potential and they can do so much to fix the game and beat other smaller MMOs. A simple thing is to mix paying players and free 2 play players in lower tier dungeons and make a LFG tool to help people group up for them.

Also make the game work better on newer computer and high end systems.

 

Agreed. Funcom actually nailed a REALLY good dungeon concept prior to the AOC expansion, with traps in a dungeon. But it was bugged to hell. This is one thing that DDO did particularly well. Sadly though, my friends aren't interested in it.

 

Nevertheless, its this kind of additional level of depth like traps and puzzles in dungeons that I yearn to see in MMOs.

 

However, I still think AOC missed out on nailing a few things, like providing a combo-system for magic users, just like the melee combat system did. After all, using magic in MMO's is like how the AOC Ranger uses bows, and that class uses a comb system.

[Tarka]

I actually had an intesting discussion with a game developer last night about all this. He says his industry keeps recycling the same blood in MMO design with the same ideas, and anybody new that comes on has to accept those same ideas.

 

Any kind of change from the "proven money-making formula" is viewed as heresy.

 

The reason we keep getting the same product over and over is because new ideas simply aren't given the resources to be developed to their extent, because nobody is willing to risk big bucks on a new and unproven formula when they have a current formula that will make money if it's just marketed correctly.

 

The sad thing is, such a "reluctance to change" is prevalent in many industries. Anyone who tries to offer innovative ideas can often be viewed as a "puryor" and someone who is a "rocking the boat".

 

The irony to all this is, developing an MMO is ALWAYS a risk. But to me, I find it funny that a refusal to adapt to change is often viewed as "less risky".

[Toxen]

So, you demand server mergers and intend to leave SWTOR for GW2 anyway...

 

I agree. What's the point in improving the game when people are just gonna leave anyway.

[Gjiinn]

Im trying to think of anything that costs 15$ / month or less that I can use 24/7, most days a month. I cant't.

 

24*7*4=680 15$/680 ~= .02 / hour

Edited March 20, 2012 by Gjiinn

[Tsoul]

I think that swtor could have done better than they have done with the game maybe they will add some new features and get better end game content but im still really enjoy it because im a huge star wars fan and I like futuristic more than medieval games. Also I think Guild Wars 2 is going to definatley be a better mmo because of how they are completely going off of what a standard mmo is with a story, dynamic quests, brand new type of pvp, no sub, beautiful graphics, new mechanics, and interactive gameplay. This being said I will probably still play swtor because I want it to succeed.

[Urael]

Im trying to think of anything that costs 15$ / month or less that I can use 24/7, most days a month. I cant't.

 

24*7*4=680 15$/680 ~= .02 / hour

 

This is the Potential lowest cost if played 24/7.

 

More accurate representation is:

 

$15.00/[Total hours played per week]*4

 

So say person plays 4 hrs per day per week-day and 6 hrs per day on the weekends:

 

$15.00/[(4*5)+(6*2)]*4 = $0.11 per hr. Still very low!!!

Edited March 20, 2012 by Urael

[drthod]

I would think so, then again I also bought the Tabula Rasa LE

 

GW2 is all I hear, and it sounds quite exciting. Except I am so tired of fantasy and magic.

Played the first untill my eyeballs fell out, and decided that that particular universe was not for me.

 

The Old Republic however, is where I felt and feel at home.

Im guessing I'm not the only one thinking this, hence my positive outlook.

[Derbefrier]

I would think so, then again I also bought the Tabula Rasa LE

 

GW2 is all I hear, and it sounds quite exciting. Except I am so tired of fantasy and magic.

Played the first untill my eyeballs fell out, and decided that that particular universe was not for me.

 

The Old Republic however, is where I felt and feel at home.

Im guessing I'm not the only one thinking this, hence my positive outlook.

 

Once the hype settles down people will realize gw2 is just another fantasy MMO with a few interesting innovations here amd there people will quit claiming this game is the Jesus of mmos. It's got my interest but just about everything it does has already been done before just maybe not in one package. I have my eye on it and I will most likely give it a shot but I just can't shake this feeling its not going to be that special once you get into the meat of the game and get past the nicely scripted PR shows and the fanboy bs that has caused so much trouble with the expectations of TOR.

 

But on topic I think TOR will do fine as long as new content. And bug fixes keep comming because ot really is a fun game. Diablo 3 may pull me away for a month or two but after that I expect to come back to TOR

Edited March 20, 2012 by Derbefrier