Solving the Jedi's "rock-throwing" problem

[techslave]

reminds me of the project ability by gravity controllers in City of Heroes. they conjured all kinds of stuff from another universe and hurled it at the enemy. sometimes it actually WAS a kitchen sink. we had a drinking game where everytime the pool table flew out, we all had to take a shot. good times.

[Dyvim]

You cant complain. Most jedi in movies are Knight not consular. And the telekinesis ability is for any Force user, jedi dont use choke or throwing chunk cause it's aggressive. Even lightning any force user can use it - Luke for example - and similar to the above jedi dont use it cause it's aggressive. In fact most of their ability i known of are all about telekinesis. So to stick with the lore i dont think they can make anything better unlike magic.

 

People chose Imp cause it's more fun to play them. You have bounty hunter, seriously Boba Fett is so cool and the description of the jobs is cool too, Trooper ? common they are just soldiers, nothing special. Imperial Agent , secret agent of the Empire to corrupt and assassinate people, compare with smuggler ? You go around smuggling stuff ? no contest there. And we have the Sith tough bad-*** guys bring terror to everyone compare with Jedi peaceful diplomatic. See their descriptions are more interesting for majority of player only a few fans would play republic.

 

Sure I can, they've made jedi into junk throwing shamans, by making the first two ranged powers they learn, and use repeatedly...powers that identify the class...junk throwing powers. Even if you can get past the junk throwing, the animations they use to do it with are "conjuring" in nature and completely unbelievable. And at the end of the day, jedi arent rabid, habitual junk throwers.

 

And yes you are right, junk throwing is naturally aggressive - and darkside, as it has been classified in games and lore forever. But this issue has been considered and solved in game after lucas approved official game...the basic consular skills are based off of force push, because its neutral and inherently defensive (pushing the aggressor back from you). Another wiki exceprt:

 

As one of the few offensive powers not fundamentally dark in nature, Force Push frequently forms the cornerstone of a Jedi's offensive arsenal. In Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and its sequel there are three levels of Force Push. The first is the conventional Force Push, which knocks back an opponent; the second is called Force Whirlwind, which lifts off an opponent from the ground and creates a whirlwind around him; the last is more like the first one, except that it affects a far greater range in front of the player.

 

Yoda and Qui Gonn were obviously consulars. Consulars get massive amounts of screen time, and the Yoda vs. Dooku and Yoda vs. Palpitane battles are incredible and extensive.

 

As far as faction goes...well smugglers should be more popular than agents. And we have MANY examples iof bad mofo jedi - MaceWindu, etc.,...I'll give you the BH and Trooper sentiment though...BH just is more iconic, at least for the original series....With the prevalence of teh clone wars recently, troopers certainly are and very identifiable archetype.

 

But for the star wars IP, to have a considerable faction imbalance on virtually every server, and a game wide 15 point different (57 to 42 as quoted by Georg at the guild summit, and I wouldnt be surprised if they fudged those numbers) is just inexcuseable with this IP and is a direct result IMO of uninspired game design, animation design, and story lines on the rep side. You cant build the Sith side first, then copy and paste, like BW did, and expect the Rep side to feel like it has inspired design.

 

Look at SWG...same factions. Same IP. Same type of game...MMO. Same types of classes...jedi, bh, commando, officer, spy, smuggler, etc. It NEVER had the kind of game wide faction imbalance that this game has...NEVER.

 

Ive played all the stories, including completing the consular and the knight stories, and consular is easily the absolute WORST in the game. I had more fun in the Agent story before I left DK then in the ENTIRE consular story. There isnt even a close second for worst....

Edited March 16, 2012 by Dyvim

[ZORG]

Yes, jedi use telekinesis a great deal. But throwing objects at people is a specific application of telekinesis that jedi rarely do. Just like jedi use choke...rarely, and use a version of lightning....rarely. In the books, and EU, you can find an example of just about anything. But we are talking about the basics here. Not the outliers or the rare cases.

 

The point is jedi are not rabid junk throwers. Sith are, if anyone is. This is made crystal clear in the movies and the lore, ever since Vader on Bespin in ESB. They werent junk throwers in the the 4+ jedi knight series of games, they werent junk throwers in the kotor's, and they werent junk throwers in SWG...or really any other of the myriad star wars games that have been released over the last 20 years.

 

But in this game, at lvl 1, consulars throw junk with Project. Then at level 2, they get to throw pebbles with Throw (although both tooltips call the projectiles "debris" i.e., junk.) Those skills DEFINE and IDENTIFY the jedi consular classes. They are impacted by 10+ talents and are used in virtually every single combat rotation. Junk = jedi, Just like lightning does Inqs.

 

A skill up the telekinetics tree, used OCCASIONALLY, where jedi throw something would be different. The problem is that the two first learned, always used, basic ranged skills are junk throwers. Jedi have been transformed by BW into junk throwing shamans that magically conjure junk up out of the ground or out of thin air, in places where such junk could NOT LOGICALLY be found. A lot of people dont care about the lore or the integrity of the canon in the game...and some things are trivial, but this is the WHOLE LOOK AND FEEL of the jedi caster class. Its a big deal. The game would be MUCH better served and aligned with lore if the first skills consulars learned and used often were variations on saber throw or force push. Those skills have ALWAYS been used by jedi, frequently in lore and games, and are neutral in nature, vs, darkside junk throwing.

 

Yes constant junk throwing is ridiculous, and has made jedi into a joke IMO. Junk and rocks are boring and laughable in this game. I will keep playing Sith predominantly until it is changed. And I am far from the only one who thinks that the animations are a joke and make the rep faction undesireable. If you want to base a game in an IP, and milk it, get the F'ing basics right, please.

 

Using movies as a guide only...

 

Are all of the classes in SWTOR depicted in the game even loosely?

 

What class would each fall into?

 

Luke (Hybrid)

Obi-wan OLD (Consular)

Ogi-wan young (Sentinal)

Darth Vader (Jugg)

Anakin (pre fall) (Sentinal)

Mace Windu (Consular)

Yoda (Guardian)

Darth Maul (SW)

Count Dooku (Jugg)

Emperor Palpatine (Sorc)

Shaak Ti (Consular)

 

Clone wars cartoon era

 

Ahsoka Tano (Sentinal)

Asajj Ventress (Inquisitor)

 

What you guys think?

[Dyvim]

Nice i've basically said the same thing before, the sage sheild should be "Force Absorb" ....

 

I've thought about this abit too. To use a martial arts analogy, jedi and consulars specifically are more like Aikidoists...they take the enemies aggression and reflect it back on them. They dont directly damage them, they let their own aggression do the work for them....saber reflect, force reflect/absorb, etc. They are like a soft martial art.

 

Sith are more like a hard martial art....tae kwon do, etc. They are more active, more actively attacking to damage the opponent. And in this game, they made the Sith side first, then copied and pasted over to the jedi side, and slapped some poorly conceived, done at the last minute animations on them and said "finished".

 

So the jedi design and skills lack the jedi flavor that absorb and reflect type skills have given jedi in other games...and they could have been in this game with a LITTLE inspiration and effort. Which was completely missing. Instead we are stuck with completely unbelievable things, like magic rocks and pebbles appearing out of nowhere...

 

Quick example...you could have an "absorb" skill that doesnt need an attack first...take an activation timer and have an animation where the jedi draws unbalanced, aggressive essence out of the target(s), create an absorb aura at the jedi and then have the jedi reflect the aggression back at the target...imagine an animation like the end scene in raiders of the lost ark where the energy from the ark shoots through the nazis...something like that...

 

at 21 secs, sorry for the music, mute it...lol

 

Or get a little more creative....jedi have a lightning skill called electric judgment...use a type of absorb skill and call it kinetic judgment...or actually bother to read the flippin lore and come up with somethign like Emerald Fire:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment

 

This power, in the New Jedi Order series, was referred to as "emerald fire." Luke probably was able to use this power because of his long years of meditation on the light side. Jacen said very clearly that it did not kill enemies, but it sapped their strength and willpower.

 

Bottom line, they based the jedi consular template in this game off of the done first, done better sith side, and what we are left with on the consular side doesnt feel right and does not contain the imagination or the creativity, or the jedi feel I expect from a BW. It feels rushed, uninspired, and phoned in, leaving jedi as rabid junk throwers when junk throwing is a skill used dominantly by Sith, every sith in EVERY movie, more than any other sith ranged attack.

[Dyvim]

I agree that the Consular abilities lack oomph...

 

 

Force Breach

- Since this has to be ranged, it is hard for me to suggest a lot of the ideas I have. If it were to stay the same, I would have the shell appear as it does, but more prominent, and have the shattering of it be more dramatic, accompanied by the sound effect of a glass breaking or exploding.

- If your lightsaber could be incorporated into the attack, I would like the shell to appear as before, but have it shattered by a lightsaber animation.

- The ability could be turned into a short teleportation attack. This would be hell in PvP, but I'm just spitballing. It is a 10m ranged ability, so if used within that range, the shadow would teleport behind the target and with an accompanying backstab, shatter the shell around them. Also it would be cool if it had a chance to stun standard and strong enemies with a proc or something.

 

Keep the ideas going if you want. Just no more whining plz.

 

I created a thread on this many weeks ago...I guess the skill is supposed to be based off of finding shatterpoints, or weaknesses in the force...I think ala the EU book about Mace Windu from many years ago. And it has to be able to be used againts multiple targets at once, so Im not sure how your teleportation idea would work...

 

What I could envision would be a more substantial beam from the jedi that would create a crystalline outline of the target around the target...kind of like a shell formed when troopers use their cryo cc. And then have the crystalline shell crack and shatter...kind of like a frozen T-1000 terminator....lol, but just the shell, the target would keep moving, or whatever. But it would be more substantial, more noticeable, and look more powerful than the current shimmering gold egg shell pieces that flutter to the ground, or whatever in the hell the current animation is supposed to be... Or if you wanted to follow the shattering idea further, make a 2d crystalline copy of the target, like a posterboard cut out standup that then shatters into shards like it was made of glass or crystal, etc.

 

Im sure if professionals put some thought behind it they could do much better than these ideas, which are much better than what we currently have, IMO. And that is the one thing I do know, what we currently have is pathetic, and its REALLY pathetic when compared to the Sin version.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Dyvim

[YaanaOhtar]

Sure I can, they've made jedi into junk throwing shamans, by making the first two ranged powers they learn, and use repeatedly...powers that identify the class...junk throwing powers. Even if you can get past the junk throwing, the animations they use to do it with are "conjuring" in nature and completely unbelievable. And at the end of the day, jedi arent rabid, habitual junk throwers.

 

And yes you are right, junk throwing is naturally aggressive - and darkside, as it has been classified in games and lore forever. But this issue has been considered and solved in game after lucas approved official game...the basic consular skills are based off of force push, because its neutral and inherently defensive (pushing the aggressor back from you). Another wiki exceprt:

 

As one of the few offensive powers not fundamentally dark in nature, Force Push frequently forms the cornerstone of a Jedi's offensive arsenal. In Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and its sequel there are three levels of Force Push. The first is the conventional Force Push, which knocks back an opponent; the second is called Force Whirlwind, which lifts off an opponent from the ground and creates a whirlwind around him; the last is more like the first one, except that it affects a far greater range in front of the player.

 

Yoda and Qui Gonn were obviously consulars. Consulars get massive amounts of screen time, and the Yoda vs. Dooku and Yoda vs. Palpitane battles are incredible and extensive.

 

As far as faction goes...well smugglers should be more popular than agents. And we have MANY examples iof bad mofo jedi - MaceWindu, etc.,...I'll give you the BH and Trooper sentiment though...BH just is more iconic, at least for the original series....With the prevalence of teh clone wars recently, troopers certainly are and very identifiable archetype.

 

But for the star wars IP, to have a considerable faction imbalance on virtually every server, and a game wide 15 point different (57 to 42 as quoted by Georg at the guild summit, and I wouldnt be surprised if they fudged those numbers) is just inexcuseable with this IP and is a direct result IMO of uninspired game design, animation design, and story lines on the rep side. You cant build the Sith side first, then copy and paste, like BW did, and expect the Rep side to feel like it has inspired design.

 

Look at SWG...same factions. Same IP. Same type of game...MMO. Same types of classes...jedi, bh, commando, officer, spy, smuggler, etc. It NEVER had the kind of game wide faction imbalance that this game has...NEVER.

 

Ive played all the stories, including completing the consular and the knight stories, and consular is easily the absolute WORST in the game. I had more fun in the Agent story before I left DK then in the ENTIRE consular story. There isnt even a close second for worst....

 

Nop you cant complain, because if we switch them to force push , you still complain that graphic looked weak. So as i said before they have done the best for these skills; and it's not magic so you cant put in various of elements for graphic, even force quake is just a massive force push at 1 area.

 

That is game; now if you want to talk about movies; Jedi dont just use force or saber only; every jedi able to use every force or saber forms, their titles are just their jobs; not much different about their skill or their abilities.

 

I doubt the stories has much factors. If it is truth that stories is the main reason then it's you players nature to like aggressive stuff. I played Consular and Inquisitor, to me Inquisitor story is annoying and stupid not logic compare to Consular story.

 

My point here is each story of each class suit to type of people only; Not all like action movie - Black Hawk Down, Transformer,.... - as the same not all like mysteries novel - Sherlock Home,.... - So if people like those simply because most people like actions and bad-*** movies than mysteries.

 

However; i doubt at the beginning of game released; people had checked all the stories to chose. So as i said before, the idea of playing the Imperial side is more appealing. You are a Bad-*** under the name of the Emperor wrecking and bringing terror to everyone.

[HeliosApollo]

One of these days I'd like to see a kitchen sink come out of the ground.

[monimoni]

It's really a personal preference thing.

 

I like the rock animations much more than the lightning animations.

 

Yeah well, the majority of the player base obviously disagrees. Sorcerers outnumber Sages by 2 to 1 or more. I personally find the rock throwing animations super lame.

[Dyvim]

Nop you cant complain, because if we switch them to force push , you still complain that graphic looked weak. So as i said before they have done the best for these skills; and it's not magic so you cant put in various of elements for graphic, even force quake is just a massive force push at 1 area.

 

...

 

 

Im not just complaining, I'm offering facts from lore and suggestion for changes. Disturbance is a type of force push. There is no reason for the animations to look weak, they can be jazzed up as needed. And nothing could look any weaker than pebblestorm which we have to live with now.

 

There are ALOT of people who think these are the weakest animations in the game, and no, they have definitely NOT "done the best for these skills". That is pretty laughable.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Dyvim

[YaanaOhtar]

Im not just complaining, I'm offering facts from lore and suggestion for changes. Disturbance is a type of force push. There is no reason for the animations to look weak, they can be jazzed up as needed. And nothing could look any weaker than pebblestorm which we have to live with now.

 

There are ALOT of people who think these are the weakest animations in the game, and no, they have definitely NOT "done the best for these skills". That is pretty laughable.

 

I cant think of any thing to make a them better without effecting the lore, and throwing thing is not a signature of dark side. For project, telekinesis throw, disturbance what would you like to change to ? The nature of Force push cant be seen like lightning; if they put in effect to push back would be not fair for the other side.

 

You cant add fire or water, ice etc... into it so the only thing could show it's work is bubble and rock. Telekinesis throw could use more heavy stuff in it but the rest are settled. You cant make something looked both strong and pacific. And the usage and graphic of these abilities are not different from the lore, if people does not like them because they're looked weak pacific so they had chosen the right side to be the Imperial.

 

You want to complain something different from the lore ? Jedi and Sith cant deflect blaster at all, and i do mean deflect blaster back to the shooter.

[Dyvim]

I cant think of any thing to make a them better without effecting the lore, and throwing thing is not a signature of dark side. For project, telekinesis throw, disturbance what would you like to change to ? The nature of Force push cant be seen like lightning; if they put in effect to push back would be not fair for the other side.

 

You cant add fire or water, ice etc... into it so the only thing could show it's work is bubble and rock. Telekinesis throw could use more heavy stuff in it but the rest are settled. You cant make something looked both strong and pacific. And the usage and graphic of these abilities are not different from the lore, if people does not like them because they're looked weak pacific so they had chosen the right side to be the Imperial.

 

You want to complain something different from the lore ? Jedi and Sith cant deflect blaster at all, and i do mean deflect blaster back to the shooter.

 

English must not be your primary language. No problem, I think I understand, but if I am mis-interpreting your argument, please excuse me. Lets start with your last sentence...actually you are wrong...ever heard of the Sentinel skill, rebuke? It is a reflective damage skill...and mara's have a mirror. So in a way at last one jedi class does reflect damage, i.e., blasters.

 

If you cant think of anything better, well, I submit that you simply arent thinking or trying. Read the wiki on force push...it describes bomb blast kind of effects...pressure waves...you can come up with any number of cool animations based off of that concept. Your use of the word pacific is puzzling. There is no reason that jedi animations can not look powerful. Now, I guess you could argue that they should look more elegant and/or refined, as opposed to sith animations which would possibly look more garrish or abusive in nature...but jedi animation should not appear weak.

 

Throwing debris isnt a signature of the darkside? Really? Have you seen the movies? Perhaps you can tell me what ranged attack Sith use more than lightning? More than choke? Yep, junk throwing. Every sith. Yoda throws one senate car back at the emperor, after palpitane throws 7+ at him. Thats IT in SIX MOVIES for jedi, unless you want to count Anakin giving us a Vader preview in AotC...but since he killed women and children and got married in the same movie, it is hard to make the case that he is a jedi poster boy. In addition, if you look at the history of force powers in star wars games, going all the way back to Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight, junk throwing, if included at all, has been classified as a darkside skill.

 

Disturbance is fine. It is a form of force push. In fact, if you want to follow the lore, the BASIS of the consular ranged abilities should be founded off of force push, not junk throwing. That is why the suggestion to switch the animations for project and disturbance would work well. Chunk a clunker would get the activation timer it needs...and disturbance could easily be made into an instant cast, since you arent magically pulling junk up out of the ground.

 

Throw is ridiculous with its magic pebble storms. And again it should be replaced with directed, channeled shockwaves, that are based off of the force push concept...

 

Again, read these two official wiki excerpts:

 

Force Push

 

At more powerful levels, Force Push was the ability to create a telekinetic impulse via the Force, launching a concussive burst of pressurized air-not unlike the blast of an archaic 'pipe bomb'-that would impact a target with enough force to knock it over, launch it into the air, or even (particularly in the case of fragile materials such as ceramics) shatter it into pieces. The greater the user's telekinetic aptitude, the larger the pressure differential, and thus the stronger the effect and the heavier the target. With practice, a skilled Force user could increase the range and arc of the blast without lowering the average kinetic energy, creating a blanketed wave instead of a focused impulse. Truly gifted practitioners could generate a concussive blast that would radiate from them for dozens of meters in all directions, detonating with the force of a conventional explosive.

 

As one of the few offensive powers not fundamentally dark in nature, Force Push frequently forms the cornerstone of a Jedi's offensive arsenal. In Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and its sequel there are three levels of Force Push. The first is the conventional Force Push, which knocks back an opponent; the second is called Force Whirlwind, which lifts off an opponent from the ground and creates a whirlwind around him; the last is more like the first one, except that it affects a far greater range in front of the player.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Dyvim

[YaanaOhtar]

English must not be your primary language. No problem, I think I understand. Lets start with your last sentence...actually you are wrong...ever heard of the Sentinel skill, rebuke? It is a reflective damage skill...and mara's have a mirror. So in a way at last one jedi class does reflect damage, i.e., blasters.

 

If you cant think of anything better, well, I submit that you simply arent thinking or trying. Read the wiki on force push...it describes bomb blast kind of effects...pressure waves...you can come up with any number of cool animations based off of that concept. Your use of the word pacific is puzzling. There is no reason that jedi animations can not look powerful. Now, I guess you could argue that they should look more elegant and/or refined, as opposed to sith animations which would possibly look more garrish or abusive in nature...but jedi animation should not appear weak.

 

Throwing debris isnt a signature of the darkside? Really? Have you seen the movies? Perhaps you can tell me what ranged attack Sith use more than lightning? More than choke? Yep, junk throwing. Every sith. Yoda throws one senate car back at the emperor, after palpitane throws 7+ at him. Thats IT in SIX MOVIES for jedi, unless you want to count Anakin giving us a Vader preview in AotC...but since he killed women and children and got married in the same movie, it is hard to make the case that he is a jedi poster boy.

 

Disturbance is fine. It is a form of force push. In fact, if you want to follow the lore, the BASIS of the consular ranged abilities should be founded off of force push, not junk throwing. That is why the suggestion to switch the animations for project and disturbance would work well. Chunk a clunker would get the activation timer it needs...and disturbance could easily be made into an instant cast, since you arent magically pulling junk up out of the ground.

 

Throw is ridiculous with its magic pebble storms. And again it should be replaced with directed, channeled shockwaves, that are based off of the force push concept...

 

Now Rebuke right ? it's reflect every damage attack; including melee. I was talking about defend chance against range normally. I guess you dont feel annoying when they hide in a corner and shoot at you.

 

Even you cant think of anything; all you described were the same animation of Disturbance. Project; what do you think it should change into ? Shock wave ? As i remember in KOTOR I&II the animation of shock wave was not impressive or good. And air slash ? isn't it a difference thing from shock wave. The best they could do is including the effect when it hit, but i doubt you guy will be satisfy with it. If you cable of finding a really good animation for force push and it suppose to be 3 different animations then you can complain.

 

The movies does not mean anything, we hardly see they use force to attack anyway and to use force to attack leave one become easy to be attacked by melee like Windu against Sidous. I believe in books jedi also use telekinesis to throw object a lot.

 

According to Lore; the basic concept of Jedi is force sense, they dont use force to attack at all not even force push if they fight against Living thing. They channel force into their lightsaber to attack and defend - Consular or Guardian, Sith are the same like i said before, it's just their title, their abilities are the same -. But they could not make a game like that could they. As i said, they had tried their best.

[Dyvim]

Now Rebuke right ? it's reflect every damage attack; including melee. I was talking about defend chance against range normally. I guess you dont feel annoying when they hide in a corner and shoot at you.

 

Even you cant think of anything; all you described were the same animation of Disturbance. Project; what do you think it should change into ? Shock wave ? As i remember in KOTOR I&II the animation of shock wave was not impressive or good. And air slash ? isn't it a difference thing from shock wave. The best they could do is including the effect when it hit, but i doubt you guy will be satisfy with it. If you cable of finding a really good animation for force push and it suppose to be 3 different animations then you can complain.

 

The movies does not mean anything, we hardly see they use force to attack anyway and to use force to attack leave one become easy to be attacked by melee like Windu against Sidous. I believe in books jedi also use telekinesis to throw object a lot.

 

According to Lore; the basic concept of Jedi is force sense, they dont use force to attack at all not even force push if they fight against Living thing. They channel force into their lightsaber to attack and defend - Consular or Guardian, Sith are the same like i said before, it's just their title, their abilities are the same -. But they could not make a game like that could they. As i said, they had tried their best.

 

People have thought of plenty of things. Again, look earlier in this thread for a link to a 50 page post with alot of ideas in it. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I find your statement that "the movies dont mean anything" to be non-sensical. They mean everything. The are the ultimate source of the canon. THEY ARE the canon. They are its very foundation. And they clearly show us that every sith throws junk, all the time, more than any other ranged attack. Whereas jedi RARELY throw junk. But in this game they do it all the time, every combat rotation with their TWO basic, first learned, always used skills. So not only are we stuck with defining skills that are not particularly jedi, they ARE very much darkside or sith used in nature.

 

They certainly did NOT do their best, and I would not be surprised if we see changes, starting in 1.2. If not, my republic toons will stay more or less shelved while I keep playing the Sith side, along with the vast majority of the rest of the playerbase. Jedi arent junk throwers.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Dyvim

[YaanaOhtar]

People have thought of plenty of things. Again, look earlier in this thread for a link to a 50 page post with alot of ideas in it. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I find your statement that "the movies dont mean anything" to be non-sensical. They mean everything. The are the ultimate source of the canon. THEY ARE the canon. They are its very foundation. And they clearly show us that every sith throws junk, all the time, more than any other ranged attack. Whereas jedi RARELY throw junk. But in this game they do it all the time, every combat rotation with their TWO basic, first learned, always used skills. So not only are we stuck with defining skills that are not particularly jedi, they ARE very much darkside or sith used in nature.

 

They certainly did NOT do their best, and I would not be surprised if we see changes, starting in 1.2. If not, my republic toons will stay more or less shelved while I keep playing the Sith side, along with the vast majority of the rest of the playerbase. Jedi arent junk throwers.

 

The movies are from books. They are cannon but because they're movies people looks at them differently, you saw in the movie Sith throw stuff but jedi does not; how many were there ? Dooku, Sidous and done in how many fight ? 2, 2 out many siths in 2 out of many fights against jedi. That is not much; Books are the foundation and Canon of star wars. Remember movies are made after books. And i had explain to you why they do not use throw during a fight - you need more focus than lightning/push, in a moment you lose focus on your opponent, they can be easily dodged - So in practical fight; no one use telekinesis to throw stuff against your opponent; you will be dead right away. The movies liked to show off so they did it. Jedi can throw anytime they want without the need to feel hatred like Lightning.

 

Again you avoid it; i do not ask everyone; i ask you since you think they did a poor job, and you can think of many different animation. You're play style already belong to the Imperial, you only played the Republic to know the story, i hardly can play another different character from consular due to their story and play style different from mine.

[Dyvim]

The movies are from books. They are cannon but because they're movies people looks at them differently, you saw in the movie Sith throw stuff but jedi does not; how many were there ? Dooku, Sidous and done in how many fight ? 2, 2 out many siths in 2 out of many fights against jedi. That is not much; Books are the foundation and Canon of star wars. Remember movies are made after books. And i had explain to you why they do not use throw during a fight - you need more focus than lightning/push, in a moment you lose focus on your opponent, they can be easily dodged - So in practical fight; no one use telekinesis to throw stuff against your opponent; you will be dead right away. The movies liked to show off so they did it. Jedi can throw anytime they want without the need to feel hatred like Lightning.

 

Again you avoid it; i do not ask everyone; i ask you since you think they did a poor job, and you can think of many different animation. You're play style already belong to the Imperial, you only played the Republic to know the story, i hardly can play another different character from consular due to their story and play style different from mine.

 

Again, you are just wrong. Vader threw junk. Maul threw junk. And of course Dooku and Palpitane. That is EVERY sith in the movies. And depending on how you count, they threw objects 18+ times. That is alot. Sorry if you dont see it, but those are the facts.

 

And no, there were no books...they came from Lucas, more or less, not prior published novels. You are COMPLETELY wrong there. Lucas wrote the story, albeit with some help...it was not pre-published before the movies, in any way, shape or form.

 

Try reading the wiki, start at PRODUCTION HISTORY, Original Trilogy:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars

 

Your explanation on not using throws in a fight is also completely wrong. Since ALL THE SITH DID IT. ALL OF THEM. IN FIGHTS. So please watch the movies again, then try again with arguments that have some more thought and facts behind them.

 

Also, my playstyle did not already belong to the Sith side. Sage, Sentinel, and Shadow are my preferred, chosen classes, all the way back to beta. But they are so poorly done compared to the Sith side, at least the consular types, it is painful to play them. I normally play the "good guys". It is clear you do not have a firm grasp of the lore or even remember the movies very well, so Im sure it doesnt bother you as much. But to me its a deal killer. And Im not alone. You dont watch the star wars movies and think jedi = junk.

 

You seem to be confused, because you are wrong on just about every point. Explaining everything to you has become a little tiresome...lol

Edited March 17, 2012 by Dyvim

[Dyvim]

BTW, just checked in hopes the 1.2 patch notes were leaving out something...absolutely no changes to project and throw on 1.2 PTS. So much for hope to at least bring chunk a clunker into line with its mirror...ffs...but on the brightside, all the nerfs make it really exciting to play sage now...but different. Edited March 17, 2012 by Dyvim

[YaanaOhtar]

Again, you are just wrong. Vader threw junk. Maul threw junk. And of course Dooku and Palpitane. That is EVERY sith in the movies. And depending on how you count, they threw objects 18+ times. That is alot. Sorry if you dont see it, but those are the facts.

 

And no, there were no books...they came from Lucas, more or less, not prior published novels. You are COMPLETELY wrong there. Lucas wrote the story, albeit with some help...it was not pre-published before the movies, in any way, shape or form.

 

Try reading the wiki, start at PRODUCTION HISTORY, Original Trilogy:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars

 

Your explanation on not using throws in a fight is also completely wrong. Since ALL THE SITH DID IT. ALL OF THEM. IN FIGHTS. So please watch the movies again, then try again with arguments that have some more thought and facts behind them.

 

Also, my playstyle did not already belong to the Sith side. Sage, Sentinel, and Shadow are my preferred, chosen classes, all the way back to beta. But they are so poorly done compared to the Sith side, at least the consular types, it is painful to play them. I normally play the "good guys". It is clear you do not have a firm grasp of the lore or even remember the movies very well, so Im sure it doesnt bother you as much. But to me its a deal killer. And Im not alone. You dont watch the star wars movies and think jedi = junk.

 

You seem to be confused, because you are wrong on just about every point. Explaining everything to you has become a little tiresome...lol

 

Again; I ask you HOW MANY SITH ? Maul in the movie never throw junk, Vader as you said is different from both. So in all the movies I only see 2 different siths in 2 fights against Jedi among many battles that they used throw.

 

No books ? really ? so Lucas tell his ideas during the time people was making the films ? Now that the scoop.

 

Show me more than 2 of the Siths because last time i check 3 years old could count to 2.

 

I would love to laugh at you but then it's rude. You watch 6 movies with how many fight between jedi and sith ? around 8 fights ? and you surely know everything about how jedi and sith fight ? Wikipedia is the general information but it does not mean it's alway right, people changed the contain in wiki all the times. Movies was made from script that Lucas wrote. Even if Lucas were a director, the people funded the movies would effect the movies, movies suppose to attract viewer so the more flashy the better. I doubt it 100% like he wanted.

 

So unless you show me proof from books or Lucas said only and ONLY Sith use throw, it's still not canon.

 

Now about the stories, as you said, you saw it's plain boring, a lot of others considered it's good including myself. That is the biggest proof that yours play style is the imperial. You only play Republic because you're a fan. Other games ? they did not have the stories this complex, well FF14 does but it's only the beginning of the story, The point is you playing good guy in others mean nothing.

[Dyvim]

Again; I ask you HOW MANY SITH ? Maul in the movie never throw junk, Vader as you said is different from both. So in all the movies I only see 2 different siths in 2 fights against Jedi among many battles that they used throw.

 

No books ? really ? so Lucas tell his ideas during the time people was making the films ? Now that the scoop.

 

Show me more than 2 of the Siths because last time i check 3 years old could count to 2.

 

I would love to laugh at you but then it's rude. You watch 6 movies with how many fight between jedi and sith ? around 8 fights ? and you surely know everything about how jedi and sith fight ? Wikipedia is the general information but it does not mean it's alway right, people changed the contain in wiki all the times. Movies was made from script that Lucas wrote. Even if Lucas were a director, the people funded the movies would effect the movies, movies suppose to attract viewer so the more flashy the better. I doubt it 100% like he wanted.

 

So unless you show me proof from books or Lucas said only and ONLY Sith use throw, it's still not canon.

 

Now about the stories, as you said, you saw it's plain boring, a lot of others considered it's good including myself. That is the biggest proof that yours play style is the imperial. You only play Republic because you're a fan. Other games ? they did not have the stories this complex, well FF14 does but it's only the beginning of the story, The point is you playing good guy in others mean nothing.

 

You are just completely wrong, so Im going to show you how wrong you are AGAIN, then just start ignoring you. Four sith in the movies, and all of them do it.

 

 

At 40 sec, Maul throws junk to open a door. SO Maul never does it, huh? You are wrong on every single point. Being wrong so much, you should really have the necessary practice in admitting your mistakes. But you seem to have trouble with that...Since you cant seem to handle reading and understanding the wikis, perhaps you can manage watching video...

 

Want to argue with the wiki's? Brilliant. Because you know more than the wiki's right?

 

Learn more, become smarter, THEN maybe you will be ready to have this discussion...until then, responding to you seems pointless.

[vandurlast]

oh BUUUURRNNN!

 

lol i never noticed that bith with maul using Force throw/pull before.

[RockinTrumpetier]

It's hardly fair to call this a problem. Throwing any random junk I can find at people is my favorite part of being a consular! I'd take that over lightning powers any day!

 

Oh, and killing people with pebbles: proof that Jedi are the ultimate trolls

[LaManoNera]

After spending time with the Consular, I actually like Project. The sound effects and animation really sell how powerful the impact is. I would like to see the objects you throw be more context sensitive, though. As in, rocks etc. outside, metal bits, ship parts etc. in space. It's a little goofy pulling out some random astromech droid when you're running around the middle of nowhere on Tatooine or Hoth.

 

Telekinetic Throw, on the other hand, never grew on me. It just looks wimpy and lame.

[Vasinar]

I just wish project were a bit more varied. I'd love to see a kitchen sink, a Caddy Coup de Ville, a fish tank (with fish), or a piano.

 

I vote for the kitchen sink!

[Paulman]

I think they could just make it a saber throw. It makes the most sense for a Jedi and isn't as cheesy. It could be as simple as throwing the saber it stick in them or make just a series of attacks.

[MirrimFaranth]

I think they could just make it a saber throw. It makes the most sense for a Jedi and isn't as cheesy. It could be as simple as throwing the saber it stick in them or make just a series of attacks.

 

Yep, I agree completely. What makes more sense to throw, something already in your hand that can theoretically slice through just about anything...or some random pile of junk from out of nowhere...

 

Either a saber throw or some kind of force push style effect...but no more junk, please.

[Retro-]

I leveled an assassin and sorc both to 50. I recently joined some new friends on a republic server and have been working on my first consular, a shadow.

 

I played him up to 19 so far, so far I have noticed or more like "felt" the animations on my shadow sort of..clunky or awkward.

 

I figured I was imagining things and just kept going about my business but im helping my friend level an empire character so rerolled a sorc again to play with him and I personally have to say that the sorcs animations feel way smoother.

 

Im sure the people at bioware would of come up with a better animation than turning the consular into a walking Dyson machine.

 

Anyways without further ranting, I do have to say the consular skills..even there blow back are not my favorite at the moment and I hope they get some polish in the future.