A "true PVP'er" DOES NOT want identical gear!

[Subatomix]

We want to be able to mix and match. Some will prefer +endurance. Others will prefer +main stat. Some will like +crit. Others may go for +alacrity. So on and so forth.

 

Like it or not, in MMOs seniority = gear bonus. That's the nature of the beast. Given the nature of PVP, however, that beast is going to require some training. So perhaps gear stat differences should become less extreme, which is what I believe Bioware is aiming for.

 

The current plan does seem make people who have been grinding coms and valor feel somewhat cheated. I mean, being able to roll up in full Champ (plus a couple BM) gear right as soon as you ding 50? I'm gonna be a bit grumpy rolling around with my "hard earned" Centurion stuff on day 1 of patch 1.2

 

Maybe something more than special mounts for +valor? Just a bit more?

 

There must be something, however small, besides experience to offer all the people who have been slugging it out since launch, effectively helping Bioware tweak a game and promote its continued success.

 

On the other hand the current 1.2 plan makes the price of admission into PVP cheaper ... so more people will play. If people don't play, we all go home.

 

I think they should allow some kind of "trade in" for people who have already ground out Centurion, Champion and Battlemaster gear. Even if it's a modest one I bet it calms people down.

 

I also hope they pay some special attention to gear and rewards. PVP with light sabers and the Force is lots of fun. It has clear potential if they do it right.

 

Please do it right guys.

[Cegenaus]

imo a "true pvper" doesnt want warzones either but we're pretty ****ed in those regards

[Andrewbee]

imo a "true pvper" doesnt want warzones either but we're pretty ****ed in those regards

 

Then your opinion is wrong. Yes, opinions can be wrong.

[Ahhmyface]

theres no such thing as a "true" pvper.

 

the DOTA/GW2 players should really stop trying to make SWTOR like a game it isnt

[Taerrik]

Identical gear no, you should be able to min max as you please, however everyone should have access to the same modability in pvp gear

 

I could care less that I've been BM for a full month with only 2 pieces, and a patch gives everyone including me full BM gear. I dont care for grind

[Cegenaus]

Then your opinion is wrong. Yes, opinions can be wrong.

 

spoken like a true wowtard

[Umpire]

Even choices among the board. Don't shoehorn me into a set because im a certain class or spec, but dont give me better gear because i keep beating people. I don't want to beat people because I outgear them. The reward for being good at pvp should not be removal of quality opponents.

[Andrewbee]

spoken like a true wowtard

 

Sarcasm, genius.

[Atreas]

We want to be able to mix and match. Some will prefer +endurance. Others will prefer +main stat. Some will like +crit. Others may go for +alacrity. So on and so forth.

 

Like it or not, in MMOs seniority = gear bonus. That's the nature of the beast. Given the nature of PVP, however, that beast is going to require some training. So perhaps gear stat differences should become less extreme, which is what I believe Bioware is aiming for.

 

The current plan does seem make people who have been grinding coms and valor feel somewhat cheated. I mean, being able to roll up in full Champ (plus a couple BM) gear right as soon as you ding 50? I'm gonna be a bit grumpy rolling around with my "hard earned" Centurion stuff on day 1 of patch 1.2

 

Maybe something more than special mounts for +valor? Just a bit more?

 

There must be something, however small, besides experience to offer all the people who have been slugging it out since launch, effectively helping Bioware tweak a game and promote its continued success.

 

On the other hand the current 1.2 plan makes the price of admission into PVP cheaper ... so more people will play. If people don't play, we all go home.

 

I think they should allow some kind of "trade in" for people who have already ground out Centurion, Champion and Battlemaster gear. Even if it's a modest one I bet it calms people down.

 

I also hope they pay some special attention to gear and rewards. PVP with light sabers and the Force is lots of fun. It has clear potential if they do it right.

 

Please do it right guys.

 

O'rly?

 

Like in all games sometimes they come out that is better than what they had before. And as such that might be less expensive than it was before. ((Some call this a nerf.) As it stands now, Centurion gear still has to be ground out. The only way to get cent comms is to get the champion bags. You can't open one before you're level 50 and if you do buy one before 50, you can only have 1. You cannot buy your centurion comms without buying the champion bags. The Champion gear takes over 85K warzone comms to buy if you go the comm route (be aware you can get bags that will take this number down). The Battlemaster gear takes over 86K warzone comms (this includes the 3:1 ratio for mercs and again bags are not included in this number) for a complete set. In order to buy Champ comms you have to be lvl 50 and valor rank 50. To buy BM comms you have to be lvl 50 and valor rank 60.

 

Have to ask you how is that not grinding out gear?

 

All BW did was take out the RNG aspect of the gear if you have been unlucky in love. You still have to do the valor rank grind which was not changed other than an increase in valor. I know people go 10, 20 or more bags without a single piece of BM gear. While some have recieved their gear in the same amount of time those were trying to get a single piece. To be honest, it is more fair to everyone that some degree of RNG removed from the gearing up.

 

If you ground out the bags and got yours the RNG method you should be grateful and proud of your accomplishment. If you have alts be thankful you don't have to do the RNG way for each and everyone of them.

 

However if you wish you can still grind out your bags and go the RNG route. Nothing says you have to buy the BM comms or Champ comms.

 

Point being that it may be a little easier to get the gear, but no fresh 50 is going to be able to walk out with champ or especially battlemaster gear the day they hit 50. You might be able to hit valor rank 50 on the day you hit fifty and be able to get 6 champion bags but that has always been the case because of caps put on comms. To say someone who just hit 50 today is going to be able to buy all of their pvp gear <insert name of gear here> is completely assanine and crying over spilt milk. Its pointless to do otherwise. You still have to earn your warzone comms thus you still have to grind out your gear.

 

Just because you percieve something is less expensive does not always make it so. I bet you buy bigger quantities of food because you think you are getting a better deal on bulk items when in fact the smaller quantity containers actually cost less. So you might want to do your math again.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Atreas

[tanoros]

Lucky that we will have modable orange gear eh? When 1.2 comes out, we wont all look the same. We will be putting our mods in orange gear for the augment slot.

I for one like that people have to grind less. And yeah some people might leave, but fk them. I think it will also bring in others who were discouraged to grind out the gear. It will even out if not grow in my opinion.

[LordZanos]

I'll say it. Gear is a part of MMOs. I like gear. I like unlocking a new set of appearances, upgrading my stats, climbing the power ladder. I'm not unique, I enjoy the gear grind. Not trying to say that people who are getting stomped by battlemasters are crybabys...but, they are. Everyone else was there too, except for the first group of people who hit battlemaster. Only it was even worse before, because of the 10-50 bracket curbstomping. I really don't see what the problem with climbing the PVP ladder is. You start weaker, and end up strong. Nobody makes you start PVP with ****** gear, either. I saw a Sorc the other day with 10k health and wondered what the hell he had equipped, when you can get pretty good mods from daily comms within a week or so.

 

Don't say that rated WZ's need to be on equal footing, either. Because you can get gear from unrated warzones, and only take people who are well geared into your rated match.

[Stradoo]

spoken like a true wowtard

 

Wrong opinion is wrong!

 

 

I've been waiting to use that forever! o.O

[Cegenaus]

Sarcasm, genius.

 

what part of that is sarcasm

[Vaipyr]

Nobody makes you start PVP with ****** gear, either. I saw a Sorc the other day with 10k health and wondered what the hell he had equipped, when you can get pretty good mods from daily comms within a week or so.

Did you stop to think that perhaps he hadn't gotten past that first week (of being a nolifer) yet? Perhaps he JUST dinged 50. Elitists are so silly.

 

Don't say that rated WZ's need to be on equal footing, either.

Wow... you just verfied that you are actually against real competitive pvp. Bravo, at least you're blatantly honest. Not all professional sports teams need the same number of players on the field/court either, chess players the same number/types of pieces. That would totally make their RANKED games better.

Because you can get gear from unrated warzones, and only take people who are well geared into your rated match.

w00t and we're back to the elitism.

 

Ya'll are funny. How you manage to find time during the day to stop and post in between going down to the newborn wards and "totally pwning those bads/nubs/casuals" in rugby matches is amazing. I know, they need to l2p and level/gear up first. The scrubs.

[LordZanos]

Did you stop to think that perhaps he hadn't gotten past that first week (of being a nolifer) yet? Perhaps he JUST dinged 50. Elitists are so silly.

 

 

Wow... you just verfied that you are actually against real competitive pvp. Bravo, at least you're blatantly honest. Not all professional sports teams need the same number of players on the field/court either, chess players the same number/types of pieces. That would totally make their RANKED games better.

 

w00t and we're back to the elitism.

 

Ya'll are funny. How you manage to find time during the day to stop and post in between going down to the newborn wards and "totally pwning those bads/nubs/casuals" in rugby matches is amazing. I know, they need to l2p and level/gear up first. The scrubs.

Oh, hey, look. A critical, sarcastic, and biting analysis of my post, insisting that I am an elitist, anyone not valor 1000 should be curbstomped because they aren't people, and that I am a *****. It also insists that I am a no lifer, despite the fact that it took me over a month to ding 50 on my first character, and I only do my PvP dailies every day. Bravo, sir. (And I raid on raid night, but I'm way too elitist to admit that I do anything except PvP.)

 

You would not go into an operation, normal or otherwise, with the gear you were wearing when you just dinged 50. Unless it was very, very good, in which case, congratulations! PvP matches are the same. Gear is part of MMOs. Some people don't want that, in which case, hey, go play Guild Wars 2 if you want completely even PvP(Nothing against it, it looks good, honest!). Or counterstrike for all I care, honestly. Even games like LoL have differences in players between what level they are and how many awful games they played grinding IP for runes.

 

Like I said, you can take WHOEVER YOU WANT into rated warzones. If their gear isn't good, don't take them. If their role doesn't fit with what you need, don't take them. Your premade in a ranked warzone is as competitive as you want it to be.

 

I also firmly believe that rated warzones are going to suck no matter what is done about gear. If you want to talk about elitism, talk to a guild that re-rolls an entire team of FOTM classes every time a new patch comes out.

 

Did I mention that I enjoy the climb up the ladder? That you feel weak and get stronger over time? I think I did, but apparently you completely passed over that point of my post to separate an entire argument into points that you would not have anything to say to in the case that you actually took them as a single point, which they are. I also never said ANYTHING was wrong with new PvPers, but you should not, period, come into an endgame warzone with 9-10k HP. It is very, very easy to get good mods to slot into oranges from daily quests, and the cent/champ gearup at this point is fairly short and rather consistent.

[ZDProletariat]

imo a "true pvper" doesnt want warzones either but we're pretty ****ed in those regards

 

Why doesn't a "true" pvper want warzones? Why would a "true" pvper want a zergfest where the individual skill rarely if ever matters, and only th side with the bigger ball wins? Are you listening to yourself? warzones are equal 8v8s. A "true" pvper wants that any day.

[ZDProletariat]

Lucky that we will have modable orange gear eh? When 1.2 comes out, we wont all look the same. We will be putting our mods in orange gear for the augment slot.

I for one like that people have to grind less. And yeah some people might leave, but fk them. I think it will also bring in others who were discouraged to grind out the gear. It will even out if not grow in my opinion.

 

Did you watch the 1.2 trailer? The only mention was a line that specifically said "extractable tier 2 armorings." Not tier 3 or 4. Tier 2.

[Dego_Locc]

Oh, hey, look. A critical, sarcastic, and biting analysis of my post, insisting that I am an elitist, anyone not valor 1000 should be curbstomped because they aren't people, and that I am a *****. It also insists that I am a no lifer, despite the fact that it took me over a month to ding 50 on my first character, and I only do my PvP dailies every day. Bravo, sir. (And I raid on raid night, but I'm way too elitist to admit that I do anything except PvP.)

 

You would not go into an operation, normal or otherwise, with the gear you were wearing when you just dinged 50. Unless it was very, very good, in which case, congratulations! PvP matches are the same. Gear is part of MMOs. Some people don't want that, in which case, hey, go play Guild Wars 2 if you want completely even PvP(Nothing against it, it looks good, honest!). Or counterstrike for all I care, honestly. Even games like LoL have differences in players between what level they are and how many awful games they played grinding IP for runes.

 

Like I said, you can take WHOEVER YOU WANT into rated warzones. If their gear isn't good, don't take them. If their role doesn't fit with what you need, don't take them. Your premade in a ranked warzone is as competitive as you want it to be.

 

I also firmly believe that rated warzones are going to suck no matter what is done about gear. If you want to talk about elitism, talk to a guild that re-rolls an entire team of FOTM classes every time a new patch comes out.

 

Did I mention that I enjoy the climb up the ladder? That you feel weak and get stronger over time? I think I did, but apparently you completely passed over that point of my post to separate an entire argument into points that you would not have anything to say to in the case that you actually took them as a single point, which they are. I also never said ANYTHING was wrong with new PvPers, but you should not, period, come into an endgame warzone with 9-10k HP. It is very, very easy to get good mods to slot into oranges from daily quests, and the cent/champ gearup at this point is fairly short and rather consistent.

The winner^

[Vaipyr]

You would not go into an operation, normal or otherwise, with the gear you were wearing when you just dinged 50. Unless it was very, very good, in which case, congratulations! PvP matches are the same.

 

No they're not, and they shouldn't be. Gee, people have to PvP to get PvP gear, but you should PvP until you have PvP gear. Something is wrong with that elitism argument.

 

That's like saying "Ok, you can't play Q3 UNTIL you have beaten the single player enough times for the RNG to work in your favor AND have co-op'ed it enough for the RNG to work in your favor and unlock the multiplayer mode." Real PvP should never be about gear or uneven advantages in order to roll new players (beyond player skill and learned tactics/maps/experience playing etc). Any game where gear discrepencies abound in the PvP is laughed off by "real pvper"s. Even WoW, in all of it's terribad glory realized that the only way to even attempt serious ranked pvp (in PGL fashion) was to give everyone the same gear to compete with.

 

Compete. Competition. Competitor. Hate to break it to you but your crowd here are the "gear babies" who NEED the gear to pvp (however you're trying to rationalize it to yourself) because epeen, status, vanity rewards and such just aren't good enough unless it lets you stomp a fresh 50 that much more. You're also not true pvpers, nor even competitive players. You're grinders and gankers. Period.

 

Lets play chess, only whoever is older than the other person gets all the pieces and the other one only gets 3 pawns and a king and has to earn the rest of the pieces through winning against the player with the full board. Same thing.

 

Also the desire to keep MMO pvp gear driven is what keeps MMO pvp a laughing stock.

[Rehneu]

You know what the answer is to all of the "identical" gear issues is? Appearance tab. No longer will people be identical, visually at least.

 

*Sorry. I did not read a single posting and just threw this out there after seeing the title.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Rehneu

[LordZanos]

No they're not, and they shouldn't be. Gee, people have to PvP to get PvP gear, but you should PvP until you have PvP gear. Something is wrong with that elitism argument.

 

That's like saying "Ok, you can't play Q3 UNTIL you have beaten the single player enough times for the RNG to work in your favor AND have co-op'ed it enough for the RNG to work in your favor and unlock the multiplayer mode." Real PvP should never be about gear or uneven advantages in order to roll new players (beyond player skill and learned tactics/maps/experience playing etc). Any game where gear discrepencies abound in the PvP is laughed off by "real pvper"s. Even WoW, in all of it's terribad glory realized that the only way to even attempt serious ranked pvp (in PGL fashion) was to give everyone the same gear to compete with.

 

Compete. Competition. Competitor. Hate to break it to you but your crowd here are the "gear babies" who NEED the gear to pvp (however you're trying to rationalize it to yourself) because epeen, status, vanity rewards and such just aren't good enough unless it lets you stomp a fresh 50 that much more. You're also not true pvpers, nor even competitive players. You're grinders and gankers. Period.

 

Lets play chess, only whoever is older than the other person gets all the pieces and the other one only gets 3 pawns and a king and has to earn the rest of the pieces through winning against the player with the full board. Same thing.

 

Also the desire to keep MMO pvp gear driven is what keeps MMO pvp a laughing stock.

So, instead of addressing the entirety of my post, you deal with a single point that I already addressed (that I am not an elitist). Never said I was a "real" or "hardcore" PvPer either.

Also...what? People should PvE to get PvE gear that makes them competitive in PvP so they can get better PvP gear was what I said. I know this is shocking, but there are actually multiple parts to an MMO. You know...PvE? That thing you(most likely) did for the past 50 levels? It's hard, I know, but there are actually more than three maps in this game? Wow!

 

And hell, if gear differences keep claw gripers and people with 300$ keyboards and mice away from TOR, all the better.

 

The RNG is also mostly gone from the gearup with the additions of a significant amount of commendations in every bag.

 

MMO's have a fundamentally different setup than other games. Especially other PvP games. The day that MMO pvp is the same as LoL PvP or CS PvP is the day I stop PvPing in that game.

[Vaipyr]

MMO's have a fundamentally different setup than other games. Especially other PvP games. The day that MMO pvp is the same as LoL PvP or CS PvP is the day I stop PvPing in that game.

 

Which is exactly what my point was. You're not a real PvPer and you don't want the game to actually have legit competitive PvP. Just grinder vs grinder whoever has the least life wins. Again, this is why MMO "PvP" is a joke and will be anytime it's gear driven. Essentially what you're saying is that you won't PvP when skill is actually what determines victory.

 

It might surprise you but I'm actually very happy you're saying this because you're one of the very very very few guys complaining about the 1.2 gear changes that is actually coming out and being honest about it. So kudos to you sir for your honesty, it's refreshing.

[Neovag]

Yes. Because what a 'true PvPer' REALLY stays up at night crying about isn't balance, or warzones, or X-server queuing... it's the colour of their armour and the perpetual fear that they may enter a warzone in the same dress as their friend!! How did I not see this before?! Thank you for enlightening me, oh great and wise OP!

 

Ok now srsly, go away.

[LordZanos]

Which is exactly what my point was. You're not a real PvPer and you don't want the game to actually have legit competitive PvP. Just grinder vs grinder whoever has the least life wins. Again, this is why MMO "PvP" is a joke and will be anytime it's gear driven. Essentially what you're saying is that you won't PvP when skill is actually what determines victory.

 

It might surprise you but I'm actually very happy you're saying this because you're one of the very very very few guys complaining about the 1.2 gear changes that is actually coming out and being honest about it. So kudos to you sir for your honesty, it's refreshing.

 

Oh, I don't think there's anything wrong with the 1.2 gear changes. It's fine. More variety, new tier set for rated warzones. Works good for me.

 

I also find it amusing that you think putting words in my mouth equates victory in a conversation. MMO PvP is different, it's certainly not a joke. Do I like the fact that people who are "hardcore" will stay away from it? Sure! Having a 300$ mouse with 40 macro keys is an advantage besides skill.

 

In Call of Duty, do you get new guns as you level up? In LoL do you get new points to put in your tree and more IP for your run page the longer you play? The number of respectable PvP games with NO difference besides skill is fairly low. Even FPS games generally have several guns that are imbalanced and simply considered "better."

[Sevaar]

A "true PvPer" just wants to PvP. Where and how it happens doesn't really matter.

 

If you have conditions for how you PvP then you really aren't a "true PvPer."