Shouldn't tanks hit for nothing?

[KyoMamoru]

 

This Char: My gear at 30 is all to level (FP gear and mods of level 29), Biochem reusable stim'd..with 2 others that I can not account for(level 22 and 36)....against a tank-ish spec'd player(level 41)

 

The issue is, classes dramatically improve once they are over the level 40 hump. This means you have access to the final tier ability in your chosen tree. Some classes have very important skills that they don't gain until the late forties. People like to pretend that Pre-50 PVP is all about 'skill,' when at the end of the day, it's about which classes mature quickest. By the time you're in level 40, you can gain your first bit of Expertise [damage reduction and increase in PVP.] The stimpacks that are available to you are certainly better than anything a level 30 would have [they don't get bolstered.] There are a ton of factors involved in pre50 pvp that are completely removed once you hit the end game bracket. =/

[Ghamsar]

my 2cent, hope it helped.

 

it does, thx

 

but a couple questions

can't he just stun me (dart) on his way to interrupting cap? he can see me way before I can see him, unless Im playing my operative

 

and for those 12 secs that I am useless against him, i have no heals or guards for friendlies....what should i be doing to help them out?

Edited March 12, 2012 by Ghamsar

[valleee]

Not to get all into the trinity again, But if you're able to mitigate a ton of dmg, shouldn't you be gimped in other areas?

 

Am I missing something? Isn't it common knowledge that Tanks shouldn't be hitting people for >1000+?

 

I thought that tanks would only be doing weapon dmg, why am I seeing Tanks sans healers taking on and killing 2-3 peeps at a time? Doing +25k dmg in 10-15 secs, Criting in the +3000 range, and mitigating ~20k in dmg?

 

I know this isn't a 1v1 balanced game....but shouldn't 2v1 balance something? I can't help but believe something is completely broken in this game.

 

I play a PT (battlemaster) and a Vanguard (just rerolled) both as shieldtech/shield specialist. Don't use the supercommando pvp set (pure tank) but instead use the combat tech (hybrid). Many of the the real "tank" points are left out in my skill tree. Why?

 

Because defensive stats suck in pvp. They are simply not worth it since ALL classes have skills that bypass defense, absorption and shield rating. Since I can't be the defensive tank, I'm left with the offensive tank, meaning I stack for damage, which again means I kick-*** when I hit softies.

 

I would LOVE to give up some damage if I was able to soak up more dmg. Saying that tanks becomes useless if we don't damage is simply wrong. We would be awesome guards of objectives and healers if that where the case (better than now). I didn't roll a tank to do damage... on the contrary! Remove some of the CC from other classes, and give them to low-damage-tanks and they would have a role in pvp. This is not the case so I'm stuck with being a hybrid which is really a shame in my opinion.

 

And by the way... your numbers are a bit over the top. +25k in 10-15 sec... I wish! And I got 1 ability that goes in the 3000+ range. Rest is actually around the 1000-1500.

Edited March 12, 2012 by valleee

[Arkl]

is this because of the acid blade? Does your mitigation not work on internal dmg?

 

Tanks (vanguard) have nothing against internal and elemental damage, except for the damage shield every 2 minutes which every mercenary and commando has too.

 

I'd be glad to trade my "dmg" for real meatshield-stats because at the moment I don't feel like a tank at all, except for the "bit more health I get, because my PvP-set has it".

 

So there's no reason to skill 100% into the tanktree, since it's not worth the "mitigation" you get for losing your dmg you get from the other trees.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Arkl

[Ghamsar]

Tanks (vanguard) have nothing against internal and elemental damage, except for the damage shield every 2 minutes which every mercenary and commando has too.

 

 

cool, ill be re-specing into DF again. I removed it all after last patch because of the Dot Cap Crap:mad:

 

I love dots, Warlock in Rift. Glad to hear they still have some use. Thank, I can sleep a little bit better. night yall

[Apphael]

but a couple questions

can't he just stun me (dart) on his way to interrupting cap? he can see me way before I can see him, unless Im playing my operative

 

He can, yes, however u can immediatly get out of it and try stun him yourself as he either unstealthed or used his mezz (8second stun that u do not want to be in in a situation like that). If u cleanse it he either has to stun u again or run the risk to get stunned, in both cases he wont make it to interrupt the cap. If u still have trouble, just go in 2 to stop him, as u said u were in 3.

 

and for those 12 secs that I am useless against him, i have no heals or guards for friendlies....what should i be doing to help them out?

 

Best option is to kite him, this ofc, is harder when hes not alone. But in a 3vs1 it should be easely doable. After he used his 2 deff cds he either needs to stealth, pop all his health reg options or try to kite himself as he will die rather quickly. A 3 man team should be able to keep him lockt down in cc for long enough to get him down to at least 10-20% health, after that hes practically a freekill till he gets his cds back up.

[Neoforcer]

Tanks are probably the squishiest people in warzones. What you smokin'?.

 

 

What are you smoking i can sit there on my Sith Assassin tank and take damage from 2 to 3 players kill 2 use a health steam kill the other 1 while at 20% health being a hybrd spec

[Blurps]

What are you smoking i can sit there on my Sith Assassin tank and take damage from 2 to 3 players kill 2 use a health steam kill the other 1 while at 20% health being a hybrd spec

 

That's not gonna last though and you know it.

[elorei]

Guards/Juggs are the only AC in game constantly getting the 5k+ damage medal. You can speak about setup time all you want, the fact is it's still happening. What's even funnier is watching it happen on AoE.

 

Yeah, and those arent tanks. They are DPS.

 

To get those big numbers, you have to be in shiicho for the armor penetration, bonus crit damage, etc.

 

To call them tanks is the same as calling a tracer spamming merc a healer.

[Tetrodotoxin]

so am I to look for a icon to know when this skill is up, and not waste energy? I am SS spec'd so should I switch to sab/DF for the internal dmg? I should not use marksmanship skills versus tank-ish chars and try to dot them instead.

 

He has a shimmering shield around him when Deflection is up, switch to yellow damage attacks.

He's shining bright white when Force Shroud is up, switch to white damage attacks.

[Adzzy]

I thought that tanks would only be doing weapon dmg, why am I seeing Tanks sans healers taking on and killing 2-3 peeps at a time? Doing +25k dmg in 10-15 secs, Criting in the +3000 range, and mitigating ~20k in dmg?

 

3k? 25k in 15 seconds? that's no tank, you can do good dps as a tank spec with dps gear on, but your survivability suffers for it.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Adzzy

[xaven_]

it does, thx

 

but a couple questions

can't he just stun me (dart) on his way to interrupting cap? he can see me way before I can see him, unless Im playing my operative

 

For the most part you are out of range until you are on the cap (if you go straight to it). Even with sprint I cannot get you in stun range before you reach it. And do not forget that whilst being in stealth I am much slower than during out of stealth.

[Twor]

not to get into an argument, but 2/3's is too much or his mitigation should be only 1/3 then.

 

My aimed that can crit for 4700, often hits for sub-1000 against bubbled.....and I have seen it hit for nothing and even 72...72 yeah...2.5 sec cast, must be in cover, and an 8 sec CD....72 dmg

 

if you can mitigate 98% of my dmg, why should you be able to also hit me with 66% of my dmg?

 

You are talking about defensive CDs here. That has nothing to do with tanks or migrating.

 

Please check how the defensive passive mechanismns work in PvP (hint, they only work on white damage).

 

Sorry to say it but you are a good example of an uninformed player crying for nerfs because he doesn't understand the mechanismns.

[dufox]

Not to get all into the trinity again, But if you're able to mitigate a ton of dmg, shouldn't you be gimped in other areas?

 

Am I missing something? Isn't it common knowledge that Tanks shouldn't be hitting people for >1000+?

 

I thought that tanks would only be doing weapon dmg, why am I seeing Tanks sans healers taking on and killing 2-3 peeps at a time? Doing +25k dmg in 10-15 secs, Criting in the +3000 range, and mitigating ~20k in dmg?

 

I know this isn't a 1v1 balanced game....but shouldn't 2v1 balance something? I can't help but believe something is completely broken in this game.

 

simple answer - BIOCHEM

 

every 3 minutes i can use a 535 power adderinal. and it stack with the 355 power relic. which takes my 0 power and turns it into almost 900

[Hett]

As a tank I cannot kill anyone in pvp, nor do massive damage. 1on1 I cannot kill an healer, as he heals much more than the dmg I can do, and I cannot kill a dd, as he deals much more damage to me, including my mitigation, than I can do to him, including his lack of mitigation.

 

Sounds to me you met dps specced juggs-guardians/assassins-shadows/powertechs-vanguards

[JediDuckling]

Not to get all into the trinity again, But if you're able to mitigate a ton of dmg, shouldn't you be gimped in other areas?

 

Am I missing something? Isn't it common knowledge that Tanks shouldn't be hitting people for >1000+?

 

I thought that tanks would only be doing weapon dmg, why am I seeing Tanks sans healers taking on and killing 2-3 peeps at a time? Doing +25k dmg in 10-15 secs, Criting in the +3000 range, and mitigating ~20k in dmg?

 

I know this isn't a 1v1 balanced game....but shouldn't 2v1 balance something? I can't help but believe something is completely broken in this game.

 

i agree with this

 

ive noticed champion powertechs specced as a tank in tank gear hitting for 3k to 6k i mean thats a little OP for a tank :/

 

guardian tanks hitting for 3k to 5k

 

i think assasin/shadows are about the only balanced one lol

[damolawler]

I play guardian a tank, without support I get focused and die in seconds, and my defensive cooldowns buy me a few extra seconds at best.

 

I am usually wasting my time attacking a healer unless someone else is attacking him also, because he can heal any damage I do to him. My highest damage attack usually crits for between 1200-1700 damage. Not a lot.

 

Tanks are actually very very squishy in PvP, and if you nerfed their damage, they would be utterly useless.

Edited March 12, 2012 by damolawler

[Twor]

i agree with this

 

ive noticed champion powertechs specced as a tank in tank gear hitting for 3k to 6k i mean thats a little OP for a tank :/

 

guardian tanks hitting for 3k to 5k

 

i think assasin/shadows are about the only balanced one lol

 

And with what abillity should a tankspecced PT hit for that much?

I'm running Iron Fist, and my stockstrike with adrenal and relic crits for 3,5k on 0exp targets- while I am Bm equipped. HIP reaches 2,5k at the very best.

[Xenon-se]

Not to get all into the trinity again, But if you're able to mitigate a ton of dmg, shouldn't you be gimped in other areas?

 

Am I missing something? Isn't it common knowledge that Tanks shouldn't be hitting people for >1000+?

 

I thought that tanks would only be doing weapon dmg, why am I seeing Tanks sans healers taking on and killing 2-3 peeps at a time? Doing +25k dmg in 10-15 secs, Criting in the +3000 range, and mitigating ~20k in dmg?

 

I know this isn't a 1v1 balanced game....but shouldn't 2v1 balance something? I can't help but believe something is completely broken in this game.

First of all. I hope you don't think that advanced classes that have the option to spec into a tank tree is the same as a tank. They have two dps trees... A tank is a character that spec 21-31 or more points into their tank tree and use their tank "stance".

 

A juggernaut in rage spec smashing people for 5k is not a tank.

A powertech in pyro spec proccing rail shots that hit like a truck is not a tank.

 

Second. You think there are too many tank speced characters in this game...??

[JohraTon]

These numbers are all over the place here. Tank spec'd juggs/guardians do not hit 3 - 5k. I probably could hit 3 - 5k's if I dropped more points in rage and vengeance, but I'd be dropping a bunch of defensive abilities, not to mention i'd even be leaving a few attacks in the immortal tree.

 

We get 2 abilities which have the potential to do decent damage and its not really that great. Slam needs points spent to accumulate shockwaves then if you want to drop things like sonic barrier and backhand you can give it a % damage increase. Even then your lucky to break 3k on your average unguarded sage.

 

I've had pretty much entire teams on me and do next to nothing, then in the next game be taken down by 1 player pretty quickly. Its all dependant on who your playing.

 

The main problem I see with all these class whiners is that everyone things they have mad skills in PvP, so when they're beaten then something is overpowered.

 

The numbers tanks put out are nowhere near the level or frequency of DPS classes, and rightfully so. Making out that they are is just stupid.

 

td:dr If your getting hit for 5k by a Jugg/Guardian tank, you're either wearing greens or they aren't tank spec'd. With the removal of 49's and down from warzones, buff stacking and the surge nurf, 5k+ slams by tanks are a thing of the past.

[DariuszPol]

Did you EVER tried to TANK as a TANK in PVP ? It's working as intended. Guard healer, stay in the area and fight.

I was jumped by 4 people and they were NOT able to burn me down OR kill healer.

 

So when in 8vs8 2 people can make 4 people busy - that's BIG advantage.

 

They is 2 MAJOR problems with tank in PVP:

1. Tanks don't tank so they main purpose is wasted. Healers dies, tank dies etc.

2. Tank spec as DPS so he is not only useless as tank but also he is useless as DPS...

 

My job is to boost my defense and HP pool and then prolong life of some good DPS around me or healer.

Edited March 12, 2012 by DariuszPol

[lightertripod]

Not to get all into the trinity again, But if you're able to mitigate a ton of dmg, shouldn't you be gimped in other areas?

 

Am I missing something? Isn't it common knowledge that Tanks shouldn't be hitting people for >1000+?

 

I thought that tanks would only be doing weapon dmg, why am I seeing Tanks sans healers taking on and killing 2-3 peeps at a time? Doing +25k dmg in 10-15 secs, Criting in the +3000 range, and mitigating ~20k in dmg?

 

I know this isn't a 1v1 balanced game....but shouldn't 2v1 balance something? I can't help but believe something is completely broken in this game.

 

to answer your question a tank speced tank in tank gear hits for nothing thats currently how it is in the game

 

however the issue is that since a tanked spec tank in tank gear cannot kill anyone cause they hit for nothing and they cannot tank since BW think its totally ok to have 3 out of the 8 AC totally destroy tanks while the other 5 can play smart and still destroy tanks

 

most players have opted to play in full DPS gear even in a tank spec and most dps spec will play mostly in a tank stance since thats where most of the "tanking" is coming from

 

in short if you play tank in pvp with tank gear you it for nothing and you still take in most situations a kicking vs some AC you might as well be in no gear for all the good it feels like tank stats give you.

 

a class that has a tank spec but is dps speced in dps gear is pretty much the same as any other DPS with the protection coming from taunts and there defence coming from ability's not gear (in that regard a DPS spec guardian/jugg has the least defence having only 1 ability)

 

got to ask your self

 

is a DPS speced merc a healer ? or a DPS that can heal a bit

 

is a DPS speced guard a tank ? or a DPS that can offer some protection

[daggerdun]

Uhm... yeah...

Rather then assuming your terrible at pvp, I'm going to surmise that your just not down with some goofy little bits of inside knowlage

 

 

First off, A tank in pvp, is usualy wearing dps pvp gear... and it allows them to put out a little mor damage... usually

 

Secondly, Just because you see what could be a tank, doesn't always make it a tank. For example, I roll a vigilance spec guardian... well, I have only a single saber, and at a distance your probably going to peg me as a tank, but if you get with in leaping distance your going to be in for a surprise when i start beating you to death.

 

Or, I could say be a balanced spec shadow that decides that i'm going to be getting hit really hard in a second so i could plop up my combat stance and poof I have a little self healing and more armor and soak.... well looky there a dps that's harder to kill by a bit.

 

Thirdly, the Total damage score at the end of the match, you really shouldn't be looking at that as your information source for dps'n. Also, a tank "CAN" dish out more damage in a Warzone soly from spamming aoe's and padding their numbers.

 

 

Fourthly, Perhaps its just your gear dude, a little bit of expertise one way or the other can make a big difference in some match ups. If your under geared you should as Caboose said to Tucker "Never, be, alone" Fight with buddies, run in a pack. If your dressed like a hobo don't be a hero.

 

Fifthly, Biochem.... Biochem on a tank can make a huge difference in pvp and pve. If they used a reusable medpack well.... your in for a longer fight then you may have wanted. I only mention this because the Rakata Medpac blows WZ medpacks out of this world. Tank CD's can be chained effectively to live through an onslaught If done by someone who pays attention and knows what they are doing.

 

 

A Lot of factors can go into this equation, many more then I've mentioned but it's like been 36 hours since i've had sleep and i feel like crashing so peace out holmz

[valleee]

i agree with this

 

ive noticed champion powertechs specced as a tank in tank gear hitting for 3k to 6k i mean thats a little OP for a tank :/

 

guardian tanks hitting for 3k to 5k

 

i think assasin/shadows are about the only balanced one lol

 

This is simply a lie. BM PT here, specced Iron fist, and when I pop everything I crit for around 3.5k on my Rocket Punch... and normally it is around 3k. How you get additional 3k on top of that I wonder. If I wanted more I would have to specc more into my dps trees, and by so not being the "tank" you cry about but a ordinary dps.

 

Stop spreading lies... make an alt and see for yourself.

[IvamAkorahil]

Not to get all into the trinity again, But if you're able to mitigate a ton of dmg, shouldn't you be gimped in other areas?

 

Am I missing something? Isn't it common knowledge that Tanks shouldn't be hitting people for >1000+?

 

I thought that tanks would only be doing weapon dmg, why am I seeing Tanks sans healers taking on and killing 2-3 peeps at a time? Doing +25k dmg in 10-15 secs, Criting in the +3000 range, and mitigating ~20k in dmg?

 

I know this isn't a 1v1 balanced game....but shouldn't 2v1 balance something? I can't help but believe something is completely broken in this game.

 

you obviously dont have one yourself

 

tanks in tanking spec and gear do hit for allmost nothing, at elast not fast sustainable dps

 

tanks in dps gear and spec have way way less suviviability than the tank, they basicly transfrom into a dps class

 

defense stats on my jugg in tank : 50% dmg mittigation 22% defense 30% absorb 30% shield chance

 

defense stats in dps spec and gear (rage) 33% dmg mitigation ( only kinetic and energy dmg!!!!!!!) 6% defense 0 absorb 0 shield chance

 

simple as that