Why do so many in mmo's now hate grouping?

[Tokri]

This is not a stand alone ( no internet connection needed ) RPG game like ME, or Dragon Age

 

You are showing yourself to be out of touch with changes in PC gaming by writing this over and over. Most stand alone cRPGs these days DO require an internet connection to play, including ME and Dragon Age.

[MidichIorian]

I honestly wish that I would be able to get the top PvE end-game gear without having to play with other people. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good group. The thing is just that the game is filled with a bunch of clueless elitist people who rather not play at all than with "the guy with no gear".

 

I'm fed up with LFG'ing just to not get a response or some comment on not having good enough gear. How the hell am I supposed to get gear when no one wants to play and why is it that everything is hella easy the few times I find 3 people like myself who don't care about "the right gear" either? It's funny how some group can run things in centurion gear with no tank while others need 4 dedicated (full tree) roles in rakata gear to do the same thing. Is it a RP element? Am I missing something here?

 

As for guilds, I don't trust them. There's always the promises of playing on a daily basis blah blah blah. Two weeks later and despite that 50 guild members have been on at all times and you still havent been able to run a damn HM yet.

Edited March 23, 2012 by MidichIorian

[Magnuzone]

I see so many posts now how ppl hate being in guilds and being forced to group to do some of the things in game.

 

Why in the heck are these ppl playing an mmo? If these ppl had their way we would be playing a single player game ( which at this point we are not far from ) but they are only making it worse.

 

What has happened to the mmo gaming world? It used to be great ppl wanted to group and all that stuff now it seems ppl have become very antisocial.

 

Its those why rush through the game, reach max lvl in 2 days, whine about nothing to do then leaves. Oh oh not to forget...still hang around the forums even though they unsubbed months ago.

 

Its always the same crowd, we have all seen them in every other mmo out there. They dont enjoy low and mid game contents. They just want to reach lvl 50 or 80 or 120 or whatever their current games lvl cap is. Then they have no more goal so they move on to the next game.

[DieAlteHexe]

Its those why rush through the game, reach max lvl in 2 days, whine about nothing to do then leaves. Oh oh not to forget...still hang around the forums even though they unsubbed months ago.

 

Its always the same crowd, we have all seen them in every other mmo out there. They dont enjoy low and mid game contents. They just want to reach lvl 50 or 80 or 120 or whatever their current games lvl cap is. Then they have no more goal so they move on to the next game.

 

We call those "content locusts". Or "seagulls" (fly to level-cap and then...well, do what seagulls do).

 

I think that'd be so frustrating but...to each their own.

[pipehacker]

Don't know about other MMO's - as I've never played any and I actually don't like it.

 

What people seem to forget is the huge fanbase of Kotor 1+2.

 

I've been waiting for years for a kotor3 and we were really disapointed, when we heard there would not be a Kotor 3.

 

Then this game came out... My first thought was... omg - please no!! Don't let it be a stupid mmo...

 

Then once I realized it's actually possible to solo it was the moment I decided to buy it.

 

So if this was a game, where you were forced to group - I wouldn't even be here. I'm sure this ist true for alot of players, that just came here because of the SW-Universe.

 

Don't blame the solo-players - blame the developers for wanting to get the most $$$$ out of this game... but then again: could you really blame them for that?? On the other hand - we soloplayers will be subbed for like 3 months or so - then we're gone for good, as we don't care about endgame and max gear and stuff...

[cyberfreaq]

People don't "hate" grouping. Most are just tired of it, because it is the same content you can do in single-player, just with higher xp mobs and better rewards.

Apart from that, there is not much of a difference. So people ignore grouping.

 

Oh, if there were some different things to do as a group (swoop bike races, pazaak games, group space combat and so on), then you'll see people group a lot more than they are now.

 

Good minigames which can be done in a group are the answer to this problem. And minigames are not that hard to implement if you think about it.

Edited March 24, 2012 by cyberfreaq

[sjmc]

Oh, if there were some different things to do as a group (swoop bike races, pazaak games, group space combat and so on), then you'll see people group a lot more than they are now.

 

Good minigames which can be done in a group are the answer to this problem. And minigames are not that hard to implement if you think about it.

I like the idea of minigames, but would like to see at least some of them playable outside of a group. Casino tables that you could click to join a game, swoop bike races that you could click to join the next race, etc.

 

I think it is quite possible for MMOs to have social activities without forcing everyone into a defined group. Rather consider that you are loosely grouped with the people of your faction that are in your area. Things that get people to interact directly are what I would like to see. Random interactions with people you don't know are what an MMO can provide that a regular multiplayer game cannot.

 

EDIT: That is not saying that there cannot be "group" activities as well, such as team races.

Edited March 24, 2012 by sjmc

[cyberfreaq]

I like the idea of minigames, but would like to see at least some of them playable outside of a group. Casino tables that you could click to join a game, swoop bike races that you could click to join the next race, etc.

 

It feels like such a waste to have planets like Nar Shaddaa, with all those lights, casinos and gangsters, but there isn't even the possibility to sit on a chair...

Planets like Taris, Korriban or Hoth I can understand.

But we have Tatooine (lots of cantinas), Coruscant (giant, big, huge city planet) or Dromund Kaas - and Nar Shaddaa ofc - that can host more events.

 

At the end of the day, the only point of this is to keep players busy, while also offering a variety to choose from. I bet that no one will complain or "hate grouping" anymore.

Edited March 24, 2012 by cyberfreaq

[PalawaJoko]

I see so many posts now how ppl hate being in guilds and being forced to group to do some of the things in game.

 

Why in the heck are these ppl playing an mmo? If these ppl had their way we would be playing a single player game ( which at this point we are not far from ) but they are only making it worse.

 

What has happened to the mmo gaming world? It used to be great ppl wanted to group and all that stuff now it seems ppl have become very antisocial.

It's not the grouping per se but the fact that you need to spam the chat to get a group. I don't understand why some people likes this instead of the simple LFG tool that could make things way more satisfying. Oh and trust me, spamming LFG doesn't make you any more social.

 

And I don't know anyone who hates to be in a guild. Where did you get this? o.O

Edited March 24, 2012 by PalawaJoko

[Kalfear]

For me, at least, this is really why Grouping has moved from a Fun & Social experience to a Hectic & Frustrating experience.

 

Like othere I have been playing MMO's for about 10 years & I have some very fond memories of City of Heroes Atta & Frostfire missions ... I recall one such Atta mission took 4 hours one night & we all had a great time & got to know each other ... as I levelled up I recall teaming with the same people whilst in PUG's & you eventually got to know players capabilities ... you really could not solo the Hazard Zone missions back then but that was great because the 'Newspaper' missions were aimed for solo play & Hazard Zone for grouping ... but they changed that now.

 

The general trend is the same in all mmo's now. Contrary to what some here believe, the MAIN reason MMO's have moved from small-time Niche to Big-Time Mainstream is the ability to Solo. Thus City of Heroes encouraged both types with differing zones ... but they didn't stick with that.

 

The problem with mmo's now is that the anonymity the internet offers. Some players are simply not nice people & know they can get away with stuff on the internet they would not get away with in the fabled 'Real-World'.

 

People are their own worse enemy & all the bad grouping experiences start to leave bitter after tastes. No one does Four-Hour Atta missions now, in many cases you are frowned upon simply for stopping to pick up loot in most mmo groups now. If someone wants that Gold Item drop you just had, but simply refuse to hand over the loot that was dropped for you, they will simply leave the group - they can pull childish temper tantrums & know they will get away with it, all due to Anonymity.

 

There are more players in mmo's today, there is a much greater chance of teaming with a Jerk now than there was 'back in the day'. If I team up I will always say 'Hi' to each team member & there is always one that simply has no desire to 'Chat' - GO GO GO ... don't stop to pick up loot or you get Kicked ... GO GO GO ... don't stop, GO GO GO ... I complete this mission in 120 secs & you are slowing me down ... GO GO GO ...

 

... where is the 'FUN' in that?

 

As for 'Solo Players should not play mmo's ...' I have to remind you that prior to 'Solo-Friendly' content in mmo's the genre was very much niche ... 250,000 players would be HUGE! We would not have had Rift, SWTOR, & such ... who would pump in Millions of Dollars for a Niche genre? Thus to remove the solo player would kill the genre or at least drop it back to a niche corner.

 

A large amount of today's 'Solo Players' are Yesterday's Groupers ... jaded & worn by their experiences as the genre moves into a 'Fast-Food' SPEEEEEEEEEED experience ... GO GO GO!

 

 

 

 

... another thing that kind of KILLS grouping is the Insistance of Chat programs like Vent, Teamspeak, Mumble ...

 

WHY?

 

Simple, MMO's are, for the majority RPG's (MMORPG). ROLE being the operative word. It kind of kills my Immersion when I hear that rough, tough looking Trooper - who I might IMAGINE has a Vin Diesel type voice, actually has nasally high voice & is CONSTANTLY moaning about his brother playing Pac Man in the same room as him, or ... no, I could spend HOURS listing all the Drama that happens in verbal chat ...

 

... ROLE.

.......ROLE PLAYING ....

 

... Impossible to maintain any credible 'Character' in Verbal Chat.

The insistance of these 'Chat' programs in Teams is also partly responsible for the decline of Groups.

Great if you are forming 'RAIDS', you don't need 'Role', you are not looking for 'Character' you simply need a team that can efficiently complete the Raid with other players who have the same desire. Also in PvP - again 'Role' & 'Character' play a much smaller role - PvP is very competitive.

 

But in Normal PvE, I want to be able to believe that Jedi Knight is a Jedi Knight, or that Mage is a magic wielding Mage ... not some kid boasting how he's drunk & going to puke up on his mom's bed for a laugh.

 

So, in conclusion, Chat Programs that kill immersion & trying to complete each mission like a race are heavily contributing to the demise of Groups ... good, old fashioned social & fun experiences.

 

Amazing post Kat and bang on the money for me as well, expecially the Role Playing aspect ruined by Vent and other voice chat programs.

 

In beta we were not allowed to use Vent and there was a community growing in game, so Vent really is the problem of much of the anti social behavior out there and lack of community/interaction.

 

And yes, peoples voices rarely match their characters imagined voice.

 

Plus there is the whole issue of accents.

Im Canadian and I do struggle with many American accents in understanding wth they are trying to say. You want to scream out, "HEY BUDDY, What is pronounced WHAT not WUT". And it gets worse and worse.

 

But in the end, I imagine a voice to the character so when I hear their real voice my immersion is completely and utterly broken and ruined.

 

People like to say "but I cant type fast"

 

NBeither could I, but after years of playing MMORPGs (pre voice chat) my typing improved so well that typing via my style (not the proper hand placement style) of 2 fingers and thumb on left hand and 3 fingers and thumb on right hand I could blow away the speed and accuracy lessons for keyboard mastery in my programing classes a number of years ago.

 

Teacher would ask where I learned to type like that and Id answer honestly, MMORPGs and chatting with other people.

 

So anyone can get better and faster if they try.

 

Just in this era, no one tries anymore, they want it all handed to them.

 

I still play with out vent actually and try to find like minded people to join in.

 

Sadly EA has no interest in supporting Role Play or immersion of any kind so I moved to a PVE server so I wasnt upset by my reasonable expectation being ignored on the RP server. Kinda silly and sad, I see less immersion breaking names on the PVE server then I did on the RP servers because people dont join the PVE servers looking to intentionally ruin immersion for the RP server players. There is more non RP names on the RP servers I joined in TOR then there is on my current PVE server.

 

Anyways, yes Vent is not helpful in the immersion role part of MMORPGs. Its a community breaker to be honest. Not really sure how any developer can get around that as outside of closed beta, modern players will not allow games to block the voice chat programs normally.

[DOOA]

Why my friends quit SWTOR:

1) Tank - "after 4 years tanking WoW now a couple months of SWTOR I am tired of depending on others that don't do their homework". Referring to OPS.

2) Healer - "I am returning to WoW, SWTOR has too few instant heals and no 'save the day' abilities for healers".

3) Ranged DPS - "Fights are just too jittery, I hit my keys and things kinda follow, but I am never really in control"

And so ended my four man team. I still play, doubt they will ever return.

[Gimixes]

Because they want to play Tor like they play Wow.

I dont know you noticed...its not Wow.

[bahdasz]

why i hate grouping/guilding:

 

- 12 year old kids raging in vent

- 16 year old kids thinking they are cool dropping the f bomb and c bomb every third word in vent

- 18 year old kids who love the sound of their own voice in vent and feel the need to tell us ever detail of their lives and every opinion on everything constantly.

- 24 year old kids who are running dps meters bragging about how much uber-dps their fotm OP class is doing compared to everyone else.

- guild politics

- guild events that require you to be at certain places at certain times or you get booted from the guild

- guilds make you jump through hoops to get into the guild, it's seriously easier to buy a kilo of uncut ****** than at is to sign up to some guilds.

 

at the end of the day it is just easier to play by myself and roll with pugs when needed than be part of a guild.

 

Thank you, that's exactly what I was going to say. I play to have fun, not to listen to a bunch of teenagers and stoned college kids wagging there junk in each others faces and crying about how mean/unfair their parents/roommate/girlfriend/geography teacher is.

 

I play to relax, not put up with that crap; I get enough of that from my own kids. I like the game, I'd rather enjoy it alone and miss out on the "phat lootz" than deal with a bunch of stupid children I can't even slap silly when they annoy me.

Edited March 24, 2012 by bahdasz

[TYBERzan]

I see so many posts now how ppl hate being in guilds and being forced to group to do some of the things in game.

 

Why in the heck are these ppl playing an mmo? If these ppl had their way we would be playing a single player game ( which at this point we are not far from ) but they are only making it worse.

 

What has happened to the mmo gaming world? It used to be great ppl wanted to group and all that stuff now it seems ppl have become very antisocial.

 

Likely because they get tired of people like you who want to force them to group with you. There are two personality types introverts, and extroverts. Perhaps many preferring solo content are those. I, as an introvert prefer being able to talk to other people in my guild, and in general [chat] but do not like being dragged down by their inabilities.

 

IMO I would like an alternate endgame (NOT DAILIES), for solo playing, IE: solo-ops, which i have elaborated on in the past.

 

EDIT: also there are likely many kotor lovers who wanted a kotor 3, I am among them, but have played mmo's in the paast.

[Tahana]

Because they want to play Tor like they play Wow.

I dont know you noticed...its not Wow.

 

No.. it isn't definitely not that in any way shape or form. I am by far from a Blizzard fan, but at least my abilities fired off in that game. So sick of them not fixing the ability delay. That is what has driven most of the high end players away.. It is broken, and they still haven't fixed it. Its been 3 months. That should have been at the TOP of the list.. However they have proven that it isn't, and that they just don't care.

 

As long as the people who have left the game aren't on the forums screaming they don't care.

[Blazenor]

I see so many posts now how ppl hate being in guilds and being forced to group to do some of the things in game.

 

Why in the heck are these ppl playing an mmo? If these ppl had their way we would be playing a single player game ( which at this point we are not far from ) but they are only making it worse.

 

What has happened to the mmo gaming world? It used to be great ppl wanted to group and all that stuff now it seems ppl have become very antisocial.

 

I think you fail to understand that most MMOs are design to be played solo with the ability to group for harder content. Just about every MMO is a single player and has been so from the very start.