New updated sub numbers (Official)

[Blackardin]

So you call a loss of subscriber's "expanding"? Well I have news for you this game is way too casual friendly to have people play for the long run.

 

This game attracts solo players with its "story". Once they try out the different stories and maybe play a few "operations" whats left with them?

 

Don't try to tell me this games operations and pvp have any holding power. Getting geared in record time isn't going to keep subscribers. This game is too damn easy and there is no carrot on the stick incentive to keep playing since you can get geared so fast.

 

Also with rated warzones coming out there will be no gear upgrade for doing well in rated warzones? Really? How is that going to incentivize people to keep pvping over other well known pvp mmos. The game's engine isn't even built for smooth, fluid pvp action.

 

I like the game for it's pve content but it is way too easy and 1.2 won't change the fact that this game has no holding power.

 

Expect subscriptions to go down. They may fluctuate up and down but it won't grow at an enourmous pace.

 

 

Well, if you can call all that crap that you just wrote an "evaluation", then yeah, he can call it expanding....which he actually did not, but just stated the facts and had them twisted and spun....just as he predicted they would be. LOL

[Dayfax]

Except, you know, the numbers clearly show that the subscriptions have not gone down so apparently people have NOT lost interest.

But I guess it is hard to grasp the fact that 1.7 million is the same as 1.7 million. I should know, my math-fu is not very strong either.

 

This depends on how you define "subscription" and when.

 

Is a subscriber someone wo is playing the game first day of purchase? Even through that first free month? Or is a subscriber someone who has gone through the first month's billing cycle & had their credit card charged?

[Blackardin]

Crosspost from Reddit, but still just as valid.

 

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/1675578999x0x551670/86a5c9a0-1ee8-480f-887b-04bf50c8d268/ERTS_Wedbush_03082012_Transcript.pdf

 

"Star Wars, this is an area that I think has got a lot of people anxious. I've heard from investors today saying that we must have 800,000 subscribers. I heard 600,000 yesterday. So what I think a lot of people have misunderstood is we said we had 1.7 million subscribers on the last call, which was about a month ago. What that was about was the fact that only about – just about half that number had triggered through their 30-day point and become active subscribers, our definition of recurring subscribers."

 

Next time read the PDF. There is no solid paying subscriber number that has been stated.

 

Heh, I love this.

 

What that was about was the fact that only about – just about half that number had triggered through their 30-day point and become active subscribers, our definition of recurring subscribers.

 

(last month):

 

"Star Wars: The Old Republic is developing a committed community of players with more than 1.7 million active subscribers and growing." - John Riccitiello, EA's CEO

 

So the "naysayers" (I really hate that word) were right that the numbers EA was reporting last month for retention were ********. Half of those people counted as 'retained' hadn't even started their subscription. And now that investors called them on it, they're backpedaling despite clearly having stated "active subscribers".

 

Also,

 

We're two months into the launch, a lot more to go, but 1.7 million, vast majority now, are recurring subscribers.

 

How adorable - they claimed 1.7 million subscribers previously which turned out to only be half recurring subscribers and this month they've redefined what they meant in order to show growth in "recurring subscribers" which is just that previous set having aged 30 days and started payments. That explains the "fastest growing MMO" talk at the guild summit - they can claim almost 100% growth in February with their method without having to subscribe a single new player!

 

This is some really sketchy stuff. I wonder if the investors are going to let it slide.

 

This is, as would be expected, a total misrepresentation of the facts. The quote in question was not in regard to actual star wars retention, but an explanation taken as a "snap shot in time" regarding the question of whether star wars subscriptions, in the last quarter, may have boosted the companies overall growth margin and had nothing to do with qualifying star wars subscriptions.

 

When taken in context, it demonstrates a very different outcome then this writer states.

 

Below is the actual statement, maintained in context for clarity and truth, with just the important points of contention highlighted.

 

 

In terms of our digital business, this is a closer snapshot on digital, trailing 12 ending – Q3 means December quarter for us, so that's ending December. We went from 721 to 1,070. In the quarterly, we went from 211 to 377. A lot of people think that, oh that quarterly number must have been driven by Star Wars. It wasn't, in large part because you need to be 30 days past the purchase of the disc to become a subscriber to show up in this chart in a meaningful way.

 

We did have some digital downloads that were here, but the subscription doesn't kick in until the current quarter. It didn't really kick in last quarter. So, all-in-all, our digital business is screaming. Frankly, if that's all we were, people might like us better, but whether it is or it isn't, it's an awfully good story. And it's certainly not the story

that I think most people understand when they look at our company.

 

 

In terms of market share, I will tell you the first two are really good data points. The third is harder to measure, but at least it's a consistent measure. So we've actually published, three years ago, what we include in digital and we put it up on our website. And it's a – we've been measuring it and tracking it consistently. But we've gained share in every sector that matters, and that's a good performance on a calendar basis.

 

Star Wars, this is an area that I think has got a lot of people anxious. I've heard from investors today saying that we must have 800,000 subscribers. I heard 600,000 yesterday. So what I think a lot of people have misunderstood is we said we had 1.7 million subscribers on the last call, which was about a month ago. What that

was about was the fact that only about – just about half that number had triggered through their 30-day point and become active subscribers, our definition of recurring subscribers.

 

We had about half that total still in the 30-day trial period, but they're subscribers because that first month is including with a package good. What I said a month ago was, just over half. I can now confirm for you today that the vast majority of the 1.7 is now triggered through that point and they're recurring subscribers.

 

In short, they have not confirmed exact numbers, but have demonstrated that now, at this point in time, the vast majority of the 1.7 million indicator have past through the trial period and are now active, recurring subscribers, "subs".

 

Nothing more or less was put into contention. No lies or misrepresentations were attempted by the company.

[fungihoujo]

So many people raging that the game's still doing well and still trying to say it'll go f2p next week.

 

 

Look forward to next month when you clowns are still here, still saying the game's terrible, still paying a sub fee and still trying to talk away facts.

[Metaspark]

I'm curious, how much are "those other companies" paying you guys to bad mouth rival MMOs? seems like it'd be a well paying job...

[Asroha]

So you call a loss of subscriber's "expanding"? Well I have news for you this game is way too casual friendly to have people play for the long run.

 

This game attracts solo players with its "story". Once they try out the different stories and maybe play a few "operations" whats left with them?

 

Don't try to tell me this games operations and pvp have any holding power. Getting geared in record time isn't going to keep subscribers. This game is too damn easy and there is no carrot on the stick incentive to keep playing since you can get geared so fast.

 

Also with rated warzones coming out there will be no gear upgrade for doing well in rated warzones? Really? How is that going to incentivize people to keep pvping over other well known pvp mmos. The game's engine isn't even built for smooth, fluid pvp action.

 

I like the game for it's pve content but it is way too easy and 1.2 won't change the fact that this game has no holding power.

 

Expect subscriptions to go down. They may fluctuate up and down but it won't grow at an enourmous pace.

 

I would like for you to cite the various sources of information you've used to arrive at every observation you just made, because the article says something completely different.

 

Look, if you don't like the game, quit. Stop posting about it here. Just put your stuff up on the GTN for 1 credit and leave.

[chton]

You can complain all you want, but the man has spoken the truth.

 

It's why me and my bro left anyway.

 

Oh damn down to 1,699,999,998 I guess. You can say you're quitting all you want doesn't change the fact that 100s of thousands of others ares staying. I never understand why people think their opinion matters any more than anyone else's. You don't like it, you're leaving. We get it. Don't try to make it like everyone feels the same way you do, even if you say every one you know it really doesn't matter. The game will be here when you leave and really that's that. Move on, find something you like, be happy.

[Dezzi]

This is, as would be expected, a total misrepresentation of the facts. The quote in question was not in regard to actual star wars retention, but an explanation taken as a "snap shot in time" regarding the question of whether star wars subscriptions, in the last quarter, may have boosted the companies overall growth margin and had nothing to do with qualifying star wars subscriptions.

 

When taken in context, it demonstrates a very different outcome then this writer states.

 

Below is the actual statement, maintained in context for clarity and truth, with just the important points of contention highlighted.

 

 

 

 

In short, they have not confirmed exact numbers, but have demonstrated that now, at this point in time, the vast majority of the 1.7 million indicator have past through the trial period and are now active, recurring subscribers, "subs".

 

Nothing more or less was put into contention. No lies or misrepresentations were attempted by the company.

 

It should also be mentioned that when they first gave the 1.7 million figure, it was qualified by two things: First, they mentioned that 1.7 million included players whose subscriptions "had not yet kicked in." This of course left us questioning just how many people were actually paying to play at that point. Second, they responded to those questions by saying that "most" of the 1.7 million had actively subscribed to the game.

 

This latest admission tells me that they were deceptive--or at least double-speaking; I don't know about you, but there's a difference between "most" and "about half" in my book--which is how they're qualifying the numbers now.

 

Something doesn't add up between their first 1.7 million statements and their new 1.7 million statements, and it's hidden somewhere in how many of that 1.7 million figure were and are actually paying to play the game beyond their first free month.

 

They're obfuscating, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're doing anything wrong or illegal. It's good business.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Dezzi

[Pregzuel]

This game has AMAZING PVE and story mode..

 

as for end game content

 

You remember WOW back in the day when you hit 50

there was hardly anything! sure PVP was fun

 

But you needed to be like on for so many hours a day just to get a BRD run! and that meant you spamming chat for 2 hours in I.F

then once you got the group people got owned coz it was too hard! lol

 

 

Then if you was lucky enough to get into a 40 MAN! raid guild you would get kicked if you could not put in the 40 hour plus a week raid TIME!

and even now in wow with the Raid finder

thats so easy.. but yet millions still play

 

People will always play games like this.. and will continue the HARDCORE players are the very very very very SMALL % of an MMO

because most of us normal humans cant put in 1000000 hours a week to game and eat chips

 

 

Im sorry but this is a very good balance game.. and i am sure that later on the end game content will be vast!

 

 

for now its just finding its feet

[Drewser]

This is, as would be expected, a total misrepresentation of the facts. The quote in question was not in regard to actual star wars retention, but an explanation taken as a "snap shot in time" regarding the question of whether star wars subscriptions, in the last quarter, may have boosted the companies overall growth margin and had nothing to do with qualifying star wars subscriptions.

 

When taken in context, it demonstrates a very different outcome then this writer states.

 

Below is the actual statement, maintained in context for clarity and truth, with just the important points of contention highlighted.

 

 

 

 

In short, they have not confirmed exact numbers, but have demonstrated that now, at this point in time, the vast majority of the 1.7 million indicator have past through the trial period and are now active, recurring subscribers, "subs".

 

Nothing more or less was put into contention. No lies or misrepresentations were attempted by the company.

 

I guess you missed the slide in the presentation that clearly stated they had over 1.7m subs at the end of Feb.

[Tygranir]

So, SWTOR is a good game. Perfect? no. Needs a lot of work? Yes. But it is still a very good game, and 1.7 Million people agree.

 

You may not agree, but you are still paying to be on their boards.

[Toxxo]

ATTENTION BIOWARE.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for giving me the chance to be a Jedi. And a Sith. I'm astounded at how much hardwork you guys and gals must have put in to recreate the worlds we know such as Tatooine, Hoth, etc etc. I think the storylines you guys have created for each class have thus far been fantastic (only tried 5 as yet). I have yet to discover a bug and lag is non-existant, which is both great and perplexing especially as I play on a heavily populated server. I have noticed a bunch of people complaining like crazy here on the forums (surprisingly, I never seem to meet such players in game - maybe they work for rival companies?) so I thought i would make a nice post to redress the balance a little bit. It's nice to see lots of other players who agree with me. I particularly like the story-teller type players - you know, the ones that take in all the beautiful scenery and let them charge up the batteries to creat fantastic stories and characters. I've nearly finished writing so i'll actually start a new paragraph. Sec...

 

Ok. The whining and whinging is a huge turn-off. Maybe only allow dedicated players who are happy with the game to post as they will probably post something constructive other than ************ about how the game sucks and they aren't gonna renew their subsrciption because WoW is better (in their humble opinion - I think WoW sucks donkey balls ). I doubt this post will even be noticed amongst all the *****es ************ about the boring banality of the game. So I thought I'd have this little rant of my own to stand up for a gamethat gives me enormous amounts of fun and enjoyment. May the Force be with you.

[ArchivedData]

Gonna clean this up, but before I do, I'd like to say that the poster makes a few good points.

 

This game has an AMAZING PvE and story mode. As for the end game content, do you all remember WoW back in the day? When you hit 60, there was hardly anything to do.

 

Sure, PvP was fun, but you'd need to be on for hours everyday just to get a BRD run, and that usually meant spamming chat for two hours in I.F. And even after you got the group together, you usually failed because it was too hard!

 

Then, if you were lucky enough to get into a 40-man raid guild, you would get kicked if you did not put in the 40+ hours a week for raids! And even after WoW added the Raid Finder, millions are still playing.

 

People will always play casual games like this, because hardcore players are the minority of the population. Mostly because "normal" people can't dedicate that much time for raids.

 

I'm sorry, but this is a very well balanced game, and I'm sure that later on, the end game content will be vast!

 

 

For now, it's just finding its feet!

[evildestroyer]

This game has AMAZING PVE and story mode..

 

as for end game content

 

You remember WOW back in the day when you hit 50

there was hardly anything! sure PVP was fun

 

But you needed to be like on for so many hours a day just to get a BRD run! and that meant you spamming chat for 2 hours in I.F

then once you got the group people got owned coz it was too hard! lol

 

 

Then if you was lucky enough to get into a 40 MAN! raid guild you would get kicked if you could not put in the 40 hour plus a week raid TIME!

and even now in wow with the Raid finder

thats so easy.. but yet millions still play

 

People will always play games like this.. and will continue the HARDCORE players are the very very very very SMALL % of an MMO

because most of us normal humans cant put in 1000000 hours a week to game and eat chips

 

 

Im sorry but this is a very good balance game.. and i am sure that later on the end game content will be vast!

 

 

for now its just finding its feet

 

Here is the thing, WoW was out in 2004, SWTOR came out 7 years after WoW. Bioware had 6-8 years in development time and in that time they saw what WoW did right and what they did wrong.

 

WHY DIDNT THEY LEARN FROM WOW? That is what i dont get. And this is why this game will follow the path of Warhammer.I expect to see this game go F2P if Guild Wars 2 is a success.

[Toxxo]

Here is the thing, WoW was out in 2004, SWTOR came out 7 years after WoW. Bioware had 6-8 years in development time and in that time they saw what WoW did right and what they did wrong.

 

WHY DIDNT THEY LEARN FROM WOW? That is what i dont get. And this is why this game will follow the path of Warhammer.I expect to see this game go F2P if Guild Wars 2 is a success.

 

 

IN YOUR OPINION. there are millions of other people (literally) who love this game. if you don't like it - leave and make sure the door don't hit you on the way out. kthxbai

[Caan]

Don't know why I bother since I know how some people will spin this and call it a conspiracy because obviously there isn't a third party agency that signs off on these to make sure they're accurate /sarcasm

 

But here you go:

 

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-08-star-wars-the-old-republic-sitting-at-nearly-1-7-million-paid-subscribers

 

As of March 1st the game is still at 1.7 million subs now with the vast majority beyond the first month.

 

By the end of June the game is estimated to have 2 million active subs if it continues expanding at this rate.

 

The problem with this is that alot of people have 3 month plans that run out now, we will see what happens in 10 days

[JediMasterRyanW]

I accept that there are 1.7 million subscribers. But where are they? I spent 3 hours on Tatooine (on a Saturday night) and was the only person to post in General. I really hope they either do merges or allow transfers soon; the game is great, it's just so damn lonely, and there are a lot of single-player games with less running around than this one.

[evildestroyer]

IN YOUR OPINION. there are millions of other people (literally) who love this game. if you don't like it - leave and make sure the door don't hit you on the way out. kthxbai

 

Keep saying that, i cant wait to see people like you start saying "Where have the players gone"

 

Enjoy it while it lasts, cause you will be playing Warhammer Online with a Star Wars theme.

[jaggid]

So you call a loss of subscriber's "expanding"? Well I have news for you this game is way too casual friendly to have people play for the long run.

 

This game attracts solo players with its "story". Once they try out the different stories and maybe play a few "operations" whats left with them?

 

Don't try to tell me this games operations and pvp have any holding power. Getting geared in record time isn't going to keep subscribers. This game is too damn easy and there is no carrot on the stick incentive to keep playing since you can get geared so fast.

 

Also with rated warzones coming out there will be no gear upgrade for doing well in rated warzones? Really? How is that going to incentivize people to keep pvping over other well known pvp mmos. The game's engine isn't even built for smooth, fluid pvp action.

 

I like the game for it's pve content but it is way too easy and 1.2 won't change the fact that this game has no holding power.

 

Expect subscriptions to go down. They may fluctuate up and down but it won't grow at an enourmous pace.

 

I love the dis-information you guys spread, the panel specifically said that there will be gear obtained through rated war-zones, its the next tier of gear.

[XplaguesX]

this thread reminded me to can my sub before i got charged again

[jaggid]

Just in case i am posting a recap video to support my above statement.

 

 

Fast forward to 1:55 for a recap on the Rated PvP gear info.

[RkJedi]

1.7mil players. where are all the players? standing at imp fleet 44ppl sunday mid afternoon... travelled to other planets corellia 19ppl, tatooine 5ppl, ilum 38ppl.. hoth 13ppl

if all servers are like this then where are all the players hiding? 1.7million players? where are they? i would like to know so i can play with them... so bored. and wz takes like 10-15mins in queue to get into one. 10-15 mins = one wz done lol ..

Edited March 11, 2012 by RkJedi

[Boxcar]

I've gone to Rift and I have enough money in EVE to play for free for a few more months, and everywhere I look I see people coming back from, and I quote, "the fail that is SWTOR".

 

I wanted this game to succeed but the fanboys in here absolutely sicken me.

[evildestroyer]

I've gone to Rift and I have enough money in EVE to play for free for a few more months, and everywhere I look I see people coming back from, and I quote, "the fail that is SWTOR".

 

I wanted this game to succeed but the fanboys in here absolutely sicken me.

 

You are right, i logged in rift yesterday since the first 20 lvls are free, and a lot of the people i know that quit for SWTOR are back to Rift and it seems like the same for WoW too, people went back.

 

This game was labeled the WoW killer, all it has done was bring people from other games temporarily.

[Touchbass]

You are right, i logged in rift yesterday since the first 20 lvls are free, and a lot of the people i know that quit for SWTOR are back to Rift and it seems like the same for WoW too, people went back.

 

This game was labeled the WoW killer, all it has done was bring people from other games temporarily.

 

I find it funny that you said that, I took a little hiatus from WoW but this game is going to bring me back