PvP from a Sage's PoV

[Orangerascal]

Probably. Not all of us are WoWers - or at least weren't when some of these things were added.

 

Wasn't being argumentative - it drove me crazy trying to find it on my tree and wondering if I was losing my mind. Can't happen - it fled the premises some time ago.

 

I wansn't argumentative either, I just wrote the above post really quickly and didn't bother to check names of abilities

 

anyway I changed the original post for clarity.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Orangerascal

[hulkweazel]

Your not getting it still, going to explain it last time. Ganking is what good operative do. You were stating sorcerer can escape operative every time. Its obviously not true. This game is not based on 1 v 1, you need to understand that.

 

And no, any other class that "ganks" me, I can, most of the time, escape by using my CC. It is when I am not expecting it, with my guard down, that I have the most trouble with.

 

Vanish is 1m 30seconds specced. All operative spec that.

 

And no, it is not "very bad" to vanish and use another Hidde Strike on your target to secure the kill. Vanish is not always a defensive spell. It can be offensive. Should learn the play style of all the classes if your going to be successful at PVP in any game.

This post is full of lies. You know absolutely nothing about an Op.

 

Cloaking Screen is a 3 minute cooldown, 2 minutes if specced, NOT 90 seconds. And ONLY if you go deep in Concealment, meaning any heal specced Op will not have it since they'd need 22 points in healing and 22 points in Concealment, or are you suggesting Ops are overpowered with the 31/31/31 build?

 

You also mentioned Ops have a lot of 30m attacks. We have a basic attack and a low damage DoT. And two abilities using cover, which no one uses because Ops have no abilities to support cover and it's incredibly clunky for an Op to use. We might be able to finish someone off at <5% hp, that's about it.

 

As using CS as an offensive ability, don't make me laugh. Sure, there are times when you CAN do that, but the fact that it's basically the ONLY defensive ability for an Op (Shield Probe is useless and only use of Evasion is pre-CS debuff remover) means that unless you're absolutely sure you don't need CS you're pretty much a sitting duck if you're caught in the open.

 

Funny how you tell other people to L2P when you know nothing about an Op.

[FeeFiFoFum]

Just knock them into the pit.

 

/profit

[Orangerascal]

You also mentioned Ops have a lot of 30m attacks. We have a basic attack and a low damage DoT. And two abilities using cover, which no one uses because Ops have no abilities to support cover and it's incredibly clunky for an Op to use. We might be able to finish someone off at <5% hp, that's about it.

 

Don't forget thermal grenade.

 

Also if you're brave enough, you can get concussive grenade. I was abusing this before they change the DOT capping rule.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Iamurfriend]

To a bad player, a sorcerer looks like an unstoppable pvp god.

 

To a good player, a sorcerer looks like a tickle me elmo in cloth.

 

 

Which one are you?

[Reenolols]

To a bad player, a sorcerer looks like an unstoppable pvp god.

 

To a good player, a sorcerer looks like a tickle me elmo in cloth.

 

 

Which one are you?

 

This is pretty accurate, but pro sorcs are atleast like a ticke me elmo on steroids.

[Lerdoc]

This may come off as a rant, but whatever.

 

Ok here are a bunch of facts about sages/sorcs. This is coming from someone who was gladiator multiple seasons in WoW. You don't have to like the game to know that means I have a skillset that roughly transfers to this game.

 

The game is really really rocky for Sages in PVP (dps sages). Against a geared opponent a sage should lose a 1v1 vs every class that knows what they are doing. The two exceptions seem to be Snipers/gunslingers (abuse LoS) and Mercs/Troopers that spam tracer missile because they apparenty universally don't know how to fake cast (interupt tracer missile and they don't know what to do).

 

I cannot explain to you how frustrating this game gets when I have a BM pyro powertech on me. My tele throw hits them for ~350 per tick ( I am not saying it hits like this on all classes) and I am in a mix of BM and Champ gear. On the other hand the Powertech can chain crit me for 4200-5k with rail shots with other skills like rocket punch critting me for 3k+. I am forced to cc and sprint away in almost every situation. Our single target dps seems to be terrible considering we have to stay mobile and kite or we will get steamrolled. The biggest problem in my mind causing this is the hybrid spec. The AOE dmg completely inflates our stats, and when you also consider we are almost always in combat casting our damage is actually low.

 

The solution in my mind would have to be to buff top tier of tele and balance and break the hybrid spec. Additionally powertech pyro burst damage needs to be addressed

 

Below is from a WZ today. You might think they are fake numbers but any sage that has faced geared BHs can confirm that the same happens to them.

4600, 3400, 4400, + 1-2k in dots. There are three powertechs I face on my server almost all the time that are able to do that to me in probably 3 seconds in almost all of our encounters. For the record I can to 2k in response. If I am lucky and have a pom proc I can do maybe ~4k. My only choice is to force lift and run and hope others target him.

 

Before you comment:

If you are sub 50 you're opinion doesn't really matter. Everyone knows casters are the least gear dependent so of course you have a problem with sages/sorcs.

 

I don't care about your screenshot of a sorc doing 700k in a warzone. That's almost all AOE damage.

 

If you jsut DPS you play sage WRONG mr pro leet glad. No need to add another word on that.

[Cruxe]

This is pretty accurate, but pro sorcs are atleast like a ticke me elmo on steroids.

 

 

So like a Stretch Armstrong or something?

[jitsuo]

To a bad player, a sorcerer looks like an unstoppable pvp god.

 

To a good player, a sorcerer looks like a tickle me elmo in cloth.

 

 

Which one are you?

 

This

 

But you can't blame PT Pyrotechs. As a PT Pyro I love going after Sorcerers but I get absolutely eaten alive by Marauders and Tank Sins. We all have our counter classes, it's just how it is. I agree that Sorcerer survivability needs a buff, but calling for a nerf on PT Pyro is paper calling out scissors.

[BrotardNosef]

Well stated, i know exactly what you mean. 1v1 duels are a fail against equally geared opponents outside of the classes you mentioned. However, in a non-healing support role you can basically guarentee a kill since no one can escape you. Imo this balances the lack of 1v1 effectiveness. How broken would it be to be able to outdamage any class while making it impossible for them to escape?

 

Imo they need to break the hybrid build by making the insta-cast channeled ability higher in the balance tree and hit the healing tree over and over with the nerf bat in pvp. As is, a bm healer is virtually unkillable in a 1v1 by most classes. Jack up the in-pvp combat healing penalty so stuff doesn't get messed up in PvE.

[Razuko]

This

 

But you can't blame PT Pyrotechs. As a PT Pyro I love going after Sorcerers but I get absolutely eaten alive by Marauders and Tank Sins. We all have our counter classes, it's just how it is. I agree that Sorcerer survivability needs a buff, but calling for a nerf on PT Pyro is paper calling out scissors.

 

^Dis...

[Chaosmagistrate]

I have no idea what are u talking about u obviouly have no clue about game while telling such crap..I woulld have all the if i can get 100 points to my tree lol...

 

But now we have in dps spec = stun (everyone has it) kb (everyone has it) slow(everyone has it) idk whats problem and tryping so many unknown *****

 

My opinion of Sorcs/Sages aside

 

I present to you: Marauder.

 

No knockback, no stun.

 

Just to ensure you don't get ahead of yourself.

 

As for the OP, I agree that Sorcs and Sages do not have a lot of burst potential relative to pyros and rage-specs, but they make up for it in pressure damage.

 

Unfortunately, they have similar control levels as a Frost Mage(minus the DF and WE) but lack the burst, but get the DoTs of Locks, but not the utility of Locks.

 

In order to buff the burst potential of Sages/Sorcs, like you said, they would have to break the Hybrid specs and force people to choose glass cannon or control class. I doubt anyone wants Frost mages running around in WZs.

 

And yes I played Frost in S1 and S2. I was pretty close to the mount in S2, but wasn't able to make the commitment.

[Chaosmagistrate]

this

 

everyone who posts is a multi season gladiator lol.

 

Isn't Gladiator even easier to get now, or at least in WotLK, as higher pop means more people per percentage, and wasn't it normalized across server, versus cross-bg?

 

In S1, S2, 2500 was enough to get the mount-but when I checked AJ for the two months I wasn in Cata, people were throwing numbers out like 2800 and 2900.

[Darthbarbarous]

 

I cannot explain to you how frustrating this game gets when I have a BM pyro powertech on me. My tele throw hits them for ~350 per tick ( I am not saying it hits like this on all classes) and I am in a mix of BM and Champ gear. On the other hand the Powertech can chain crit me for 4200-5k with rail shots with other skills like rocket punch critting me for 3k+. I am forced to cc and sprint away in almost every situation. Our single target dps seems to be terrible considering we have to stay mobile and kite or we will get steamrolled.

 

Translation:

 

BW, WTH?? I rolled the FOTM class expecting to faceroll every AC in the game with absolutely minimum effort. I expect to stand in one place and melt everyones face with the spam of 1 ability over and over. Why is this not the case BW? Are you actually saying I may have to use 12% skill to overcome a few random classes with this OP FOTM toon I have? This is completely unfair and needs addressing ASAP.

[CuriousK]

You obviously dont play a sorc,

 

Root on knockback is spec only and in lightning tree.

 

Everyone gets interrupt.

 

3s mez when shield breaks again is a spec in lightning only and only works if your shield ends naturally ala no damage. worthless.

 

have to spec again to make the 8s mez insta cast and people just break right out anyway.

 

instant cast 2.5k damage OMG nobody can do that. oh wait everyone can hit harder than that vs. single targets and that's the hardest hitting attack we have.

 

Starting to wonder if you play a sorc either... pretty obvious you dont play a merc/commando.

 

Mercs/commandos have NO interrupt, so yeah not everyone gets one.

 

the 3s mez off a broken bubble works even if you manually click it off... it doesnt need to be damaged, granted this is likely a bug its how it works currently.

 

Not even going to bother with the 2.5k damage sarcasm, obviously sorcs/sages are killing ppl, their dps is good enough to get the job done.

[CuriousK]

<SNIP>

 

0/13/28 works also but I don't like it. The knock back root is pretty worthless, first it builds about half their resolve. So you can't cc / kite on demand like you can with madness. Chain lightening is not up constantly. Please read up your information before making posts, plus if you spam chain lightening every time is up. I promise you, you will be out of force so fast the become useless till you die or seethe.

 

This is just false.

 

I can cast CL every single time I get a proc and rarely have my force pool dip below 75% in normal pvp, let alone run dry. unless im spamming heals (which im not specced for) its almost impossible for me to run out of force on my hybrid Sorc in pvp. Compared to other classes that actually have to manage their resources this comment is insulting at worst, inaccurate at best.

[CuriousK]

are NOT capable of kiting (powertech/vanguard are able to kite, but not sage/sorc)

 

If you cannot kite with kb/root/force slow/affliction/force speed/channelled 50% snare... then your doing it wrong.

[ImURmaster]

Translation:

 

BW, WTH?? I rolled the FOTM class expecting to faceroll every AC in the game with absolutely minimum effort. I expect to stand in one place and melt everyones face with the spam of 1 ability over and over. Why is this not the case BW? Are you actually saying I may have to use 12% skill to overcome a few random classes with this OP FOTM toon I have? This is completely unfair and needs addressing ASAP.

 

Translation:

 

Im a melee class I think Im good because I can beat a sorc/sage. (Hint: Your not. You win because your supposed to)

 

FYI: If your a melee and you cant beat a sorc/sage. You need to quit. Melee class > Sorc/sages is WAI as of today.

[GrandMike]

This

 

But you can't blame PT Pyrotechs. As a PT Pyro I love going after Sorcerers but I get absolutely eaten alive by Marauders and Tank Sins. We all have our counter classes, it's just how it is. I agree that Sorcerer survivability needs a buff, but calling for a nerf on PT Pyro is paper calling out scissors.

 

Everyone get eaten by those 2 classes

 

Sorc is not counter for any class.

 

If you cannot kite with kb/root/force slow/affliction/force speed/channelled 50% snare... then your doing it wrong.

 

The only class you can kite is operative/scoundrel.

Edited March 8, 2012 by GrandMike

[Mailek]

Sages/Sorcs are OP, if you don't realize this then you are lost. I'm not saying everything about the class is OP, but you guys have the most tools out of any other class. Also the way your skill trees are set up, those hybrid specs are the ones causing the most trouble.

 

1.2 I hope addresses this, you guys can keep all your tools, that's fine. However, the skill trees need to be readjusted, and the rock/lightning spam crap has got to go. If you want to spam it, you should run out of force fast. If you don't want to run out of force, then the snare, dmg, or cooldown needs to be adjusted.

 

Maybe when they do this you won't see 9/10 WZ with more then half a team either Sorc or Sage (don't say that's not true, because it definitely is). Don't believe me, one match the other night had 16 Inquistors in it, 2 were SINs. hmmmm

[jitsuo]

Sages/Sorcs are OP, if you don't realize this then you are lost. I'm not saying everything about the class is OP, but you guys have the most tools out of any other class. Also the way your skill trees are set up, those hybrid specs are the ones causing the most trouble.

 

1.2 I hope addresses this, you guys can keep all your tools, that's fine. However, the skill trees need to be readjusted, and the rock/lightning spam crap has got to go. If you want to spam it, you should run out of force fast. If you don't want to run out of force, then the snare, dmg, or cooldown needs to be adjusted.

 

Maybe when they do this you won't see 9/10 WZ with more then half a team either Sorc or Sage (don't say that's not true, because it definitely is). Don't believe me, one match the other night had 16 Inquistors in it, 2 were SINs. hmmmm

 

Sorc's are a joke, even my Jugger can wreck them, it's just easy to play them well.

Edited March 8, 2012 by jitsuo

[Mailek]

Sorc's are a joke, even my Jugger can wreck them, it's just easy to play them well.

 

An entire group of Sorcs/Sages are no joke. Why else do you think everyone is rolling them now? Remember a month or two ago when you saw matches filled with Ops/Scoundrels, and after the nerf most mysteriously vanished. Where do you think those people went? Either they cancelled because they got mad at the nerf or they rerolled Sorc/Sage.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Mailek

[FourTwent]

sage squishiness is what keeps them from being OP, anymore utility or survivability would be too much i think Edited March 8, 2012 by FourTwent

[Cruxe]

An entire group of Sorcs/Sages are no joke. Why else do you think everyone is rolling them now? Remember a month or two ago when you saw matches filled with Ops/Scoundrels, and after the nerf most mysteriously vanished. Where do you think those people went? Either they cancelled because they got mad at the nerf or they rerolled Sorc/Sage.

 

 

A lot of people are playing sorc/sage because so many people complain about them on the forums. It has nothing to do with how strong they actually are. Hybrid Sorcs make for good screenshots from AoE damage, that's about it.

[elorei]

If you really think your class is bad, really, try playing a Sniper or Op.

 

Stop whining. Sorcs have it good.

 

Played both. Giving up on sorc for now I think, just before I hit BM, too. There is no reason to play this class anymore unless you are pure healer with a tank on nonstop guard/lookout.

 

Sniper rocks, as does my smugg. Sniper has to pick where to set up, but I can annihilate people that get in my path. The smuggler is just plain fun, and tops damage often. I get to pick who to fight, when, and how with the smuggler. And if I don't like how things are going, I can get the hell out of dodge.

 

So my advice to you? Try a sorc in the 50+ bracket. Snipers and ops don't have nearly the issue sorcs do.

 

My new vanguard though? Oh man. I can't wait to finish leveling this one up. It is a sickening madhouse of surviviability and damage. The complete package.