Gear progression. To grind or not to grind!

[LenrocNewDawn]

First, for the record, I've posted this idea of mine on a couple of threads opened on the matter but since people were just too busy insulting each other I didn't get the feed-back I was looking for.

 

The idea tries to address the claim that PvP gear progression is a bad ingredient for the competitive PvP we all want in this game we like (safe assumption since you are reading this post). Also more casual players want to be able to compete in the 50 brackets with out the need to grind to acquire high tier gear.

 

The idea consists in asking BW to implement an option, when one queue for a war-zone, that will transform the war-zone into a gladiatorial arena with the same map, objectives and mechanics as a regular war-zone but where everyone gets to wear same type of gear, stats wise. Gear will be, of course, class specific and should be modifiable with only appearance trinkets or patterns which should be unlocked through accomplishment in the arena. Also titles like "Champion of the week" or " insert server name Champion" could be awarded too. IMHO something like this should satisfy both lovers and haters of the proverbial carrot.

 

A variation on the same theme could make all (no option involved) War-Zones military graded. All will receive standard military equipment (again stat wise, not appearance) when entering , with also e-peen customization for different accomplishments. That will require to hand over ILUM to the people that like gear progression, meaning one should be able to get the commendations and valor needed for better tier armor on ILUM alone. Altogether with big overhaul of the entire ILUM system.

 

First version is risk free for BW and not that much work to implement. Second involves some risks of the war-zones going obsolete and needs more work to make ILUM work (now is kinda broken) but, if done smartly, open world PvP could get the much needed attention from the players and become more then just an empty shell.

 

Let criticism begin, but please make it constructive and gentle .

 

P.S. If you are about to write that, people who like gear progression are just "insert word elitist" or, that the ones that hate said system are "lazy insert word", please stop as you are wasting electricity with out purpose. Let's keep this thread "environment friendly"

Edited March 9, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn
Title change.

[Bazzoong]

Though I am all for a leveling of the playing field gear wise, I do not support your way of doing it. Here is my main reason: one of the most fun parts of the game (at least for me) is customizing the gear for a specific play-style e.g. creating gear that works best with a certain spec (hybrids, remember those) all out unchangeable stats on gear would make that impossible.

And modding is awesome just as the ability to make exactly the spec you want, individualisation of your character is what makes this game great.

 

So my solution for making pvp"more" fair for everyone when it comes to gear would be this: all pvp gear and individual mods should be easy to obtain for everyone but what they obtain and how they combine it should be up to the individual player, so that you can create characters that fit your play-style the most. The biggest mistake in my opinion would be streamlining AC and gear to generic prototypes.

 

I`d really like to read your view on this argument, so please reply if you find the time.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Bazzoong

[Manigma]

Grind is being removed with every patch, which is good imo, there is hardly any grind for PVE, PVP takes much longer to get the top gear but they are heading in the right direction. Edited March 7, 2012 by Manigma

[Noctournys]

This game has never had a grind of any kind, not even at launch day.

 

Please stop using that term as it refers to MMOs unless you have any idea what you're talking about.

[Stradoo]

First, for the record, I've posted this idea of mine on a couple of threads opened on the matter but since people were just too busy insulting each other I didn't get the feed-back I was looking for.

 

The idea tries to address the claim that PvP gear progression is a bad ingredient for the competitive PvP we all want in this game we like (safe assumption since you are reading this post). Also more casual players want to be able to compete in the 50 brackets with out the need to grind to acquire high tier gear.

 

The idea consists in asking BW to implement an option, when one queue for a war-zone, that will transform the war-zone into a gladiatorial arena with the same map, objectives and mechanics as a regular war-zone but where everyone gets to wear same type of gear, stats wise. Gear will be, of course, class specific and should be modifiable with only appearance trinkets or patterns which should be unlocked through accomplishment in the arena. Also titles like "Champion of the week" or " insert server name Champion" could be awarded too. IMHO something like this should satisfy both lovers and haters of the proverbial carrot.

 

A variation on the same theme could make all (no option involved) War-Zones military graded. All will receive standard military equipment (again stat wise, not appearance) when entering , with also e-peen customization for different accomplishments. That will require to hand over ILUM to the people that like gear progression, meaning one should be able to get the commendations and valor needed for better tier armor on ILUM alone. Altogether with big over whole of the entire ILUM system.

 

First version is risk free for BW and not that much work to implement. Second involves some risks of the war-zones going obsolete and needs more work to make ILUM work (now is kinda broken) but, if done smartly, open world PvP could get the much needed attention from the players and become more then just an empty shell.

 

Let criticism begin, but please make it constructive and gentle .

 

P.S. If you are about to write that, people who like gear progression are just "insert word elitist" or, that the ones that hate said system are "lazy insert word", please stop as you are wasting electricity with out purpose. Let's keep this thread "environment friendly"

 

 

TL;DR

 

Why come here and cry about what you want. Nobody cares.

 

Thanks.

[LenrocNewDawn]

@Bazzoong. I understand you and I enjoy getting better gear and optimizing my avatar too. Still people complain about gear giving too much of an advantage and that they need to play aspects of the game they don't enjoy in order to be competitive when they do PvP. My idea splits the issue and allows everyone to play how they like.

 

@Stradoo If TL;DR why bother TR? Good bye !

Edited March 7, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

[LenrocNewDawn]

Oki, one more try to bring this up to attention. If it still dies I'll let it RIP as a bad idea .

[bmarleyy]

I agree that something needs to be done with the level 50 PVP warzones. They are fun in concept, and were a BLAST to play from 10-49, but once you first hit 50 they just suck(for you because you're new!!) You will lose almost constantly because you just get steamrolled by toons with better gear. I ground through this recently with an alt I made and after finally getting to "Battlemaster" with almost full champ gear I am finally equipped enough that if I get lucky and have a few more well equipped teamates we stand a chance of winning. Mostly though we just get ripped through like we're not even there, the exception of course being huttball as that actually requires more skill than gear. Nothing like being taunted by a player who can stand in front of you, laugh at you, dance and then sit down while you are using all your DPS cooldowns on them and then when you are out of ammo/energy they kill you in about 3 seconds. Very discouraging when you are geared in mostly champ gear. Or trying to focus fire a fully geared healer with 3-4 champ geared players....OMG some healers I swear are just impossible to kill. I look at the boards and the IMP's will have 7 of the top 8 damage players and they sometimes come in at over 600k!! I've yet to see a repub player get THAT high, although i occasionally do see one get in the 300's or low 400's.

Anyway that didn't really address your post. I think BW should adopt some kind of a point system for gear. Currently they do have a rating, although that wouldn't work well for this. If you assign a point value (based on PVP) to each piece of gear, then when people que up for a WZ put them in a point bracket. One could even use Expertise as a factor or the determining qualification, although someone in full tier 3 raid gear going into a low expertise bracket would just amplify the current problem in a new and frustrating way. I realize that a lot of the pvp'rs take it very seriously, but when I play doors and i am sitting up in the re-spawn box waiting for the wall to drop so i can go die again and i look around and ALL 8 of my team is in there with me...what's the point? I fail to see how that is fun for anyone =p Well back to my newest alt....I'll keep making them so I can play in the 10-49 bracket as that is where the playing field is most level, and when it's a fair fight it's just more entertaining!!

Edited March 22, 2012 by bmarleyy

[Jrovak]

@Bazzoong. I understand you and I enjoy getting better gear and optimizing my avatar too. Still people complain about gear giving too much of an advantage and that they need to play aspects of the game they don't enjoy in order to be competitive when they do PvP. My idea splits the issue and allows everyone to play how they like.

 

@Stradoo If TL;DR why bother TR? Good bye !

 

you had to Pvp to get gear And arguably WZ are all there is to do forever in this game

 

PPL conmplained that they had to PvP too nuch to get PvP gear , Obtaining that PvP gear for next to nothing now isnt going to make them like something they were reluctant to engage in before. They are going to get the gear and then they will cancel sub cause there will have nothing to do because they still dony like it gear or not

 

i beleive that the equal gear argument is a false one

[PloGreen]

First, for the record, I've posted this idea of mine on a couple of threads opened on the matter but since people were just too busy insulting each other I didn't get the feed-back I was looking for.

 

The idea tries to address the claim that PvP gear progression is a bad ingredient for the competitive PvP we all want in this game we like (safe assumption since you are reading this post). Also more casual players want to be able to compete in the 50 brackets with out the need to grind to acquire high tier gear.

 

The idea consists in asking BW to implement an option, when one queue for a war-zone, that will transform the war-zone into a gladiatorial arena with the same map, objectives and mechanics as a regular war-zone but where everyone gets to wear same type of gear, stats wise. Gear will be, of course, class specific and should be modifiable with only appearance trinkets or patterns which should be unlocked through accomplishment in the arena. Also titles like "Champion of the week" or " insert server name Champion" could be awarded too. IMHO something like this should satisfy both lovers and haters of the proverbial carrot.

 

A variation on the same theme could make all (no option involved) War-Zones military graded. All will receive standard military equipment (again stat wise, not appearance) when entering , with also e-peen customization for different accomplishments. That will require to hand over ILUM to the people that like gear progression, meaning one should be able to get the commendations and valor needed for better tier armor on ILUM alone. Altogether with big overhaul of the entire ILUM system.

 

First version is risk free for BW and not that much work to implement. Second involves some risks of the war-zones going obsolete and needs more work to make ILUM work (now is kinda broken) but, if done smartly, open world PvP could get the much needed attention from the players and become more then just an empty shell.

 

Let criticism begin, but please make it constructive and gentle .

 

P.S. If you are about to write that, people who like gear progression are just "insert word elitist" or, that the ones that hate said system are "lazy insert word", please stop as you are wasting electricity with out purpose. Let's keep this thread "environment friendly"

 

 

So you want a pvp queue where you don't need to "grind", where gear is not a factor? I don't understand what you want.

 

The "grind" is playing pvp. Which is what you claim to enjoy. In which case why not just play the game?

 

Is it the gear disparity you don't like? That will always be there, since this a gear based game.

 

Unless they make a naked queue where you don't wear gear, that might be what you want.

 

Personally and I mean this in a nice way - I think this is a terrible idea. You want this game to be something it isn't. It's an mmo and time and effort = reward. If you don't out in the time you don't deserve to compete. This may seem harsh but it's a rule of life as well, people that have what you want should not be forced to give it up because you don't want to make an effort, I know you don't want these type of responses but this is a valid one, sorry.

[LenrocNewDawn]

This may seem harsh but it's a rule of life as well, people that have what you want should not be forced to give it up because you don't want to make an effort, I know you don't want these type of responses but this is a valid one, sorry.

 

First, I value your input (as long as it's civil) regardless if you agree with me or not. I don't hold all the answers nor do I know all.

 

Second, my forum name is my main name on "TheRedEclipse" server and I'm BM geared bar the boots and gloves (I chose to wear columni for gloves). As you can see I've done my grind and enjoyed it. The gear reward was the cherry on top of the fun cake.

 

Thirdly, not everybody feels like me or like you. Having diversity is not a bad thing and what I've proposed cater for both player types. To be honest, since none of the radical advocates of the "PvP is about skill not gear" have ever replied to this thread, I'm starting to think their motives are not competition but taking and hiding the carrot away because they are to lazy (or don't have enough time) to chase it.

 

I would greatly enjoy a WZ where gear is completely equal stats wise and I think that's the only way to do rated WZs. Appearance should differ according to class and rate. How cool would a BH look with a skull painted on their helmet?