Tiaa Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 This is an alt-system. This system was designed to encourage and reward alting. It's not meant to benefit people that don't alt. They've said the legacy system is to encourage alts from the start. Here's a quote: "We wanted to have a system that encouraged players to create alts and to play the game through the different story paths. So the legacy system is meant to do that." Is this Legacy system based on rolling RACES of alts? Because if so, this system is already a failed idea. Some of us have alts but they aren't different races and perhaps not even 50. So that means we can't use any other race because we didn't level every race to 50? And even if we did, by that time our character sheet would be full. This is what I am understanding about this system. And if it is this way, it's complete nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Solution would be to make it a token earned to unlock. Each time you play ANY class and reach 50, you unlock a token to that species unlock and choose the race you want to play. This will still encourage continuous play becaue. 1) You playing the race YOU want to play. 2) When you level up the race YOU want to play and level them to 50 you earn another token. 3) You get to pick another race YOU want to play next. Same goal reached, less of a pain. People are playing different classes and different races and you dont' have a lot of people raging at you (Bioware) for making them grind needlessly. Yeah that's a better solution. Even better is that an equivalent of L1-L50 (or maybe L1-L50 x 2 - it doesn't really matter the possibility is the issue) legacy exp on a L50 toon = 1 token. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Is this Legacy system based on rolling RACES of alts? Because if so, this system is already a failed idea. Some of us have alts but they aren't different races and perhaps not even 50. So that means we can't use any other race because we didn't level every race to 50? And even if we did, by that time our character sheet would be full. This is what I am understanding about this system. And if it is this way, it's complete nonsense. Not sure why you quoted me there. I was simply responding to the person that complained the Legacy System didn't do anything for people that don't alt. I was just answering their question. I wasn't making on comment about the implementation at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiaa Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Not sure why you quoted me there. I was simply responding to the person that complained the Legacy System didn't do anything for people that don't alt. I was just answering their question. I wasn't making on comment about the implementation at all. No specific reason. Just want someone to answer me if I am understanding the system correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morulma Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Way to screw over people who have played humans characters. Thanks for letting us know in ADVANCE we were waisting our time. If you watched the summit, humans get a Prescence boost across all characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRieh Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 f you thought that what they meant was that main-only players and alt-oholics were going to find equal value with this system you were likely mistaken as I don't recall them saying anything like that. There were multiple statements, which had the idea of "and we have something for those who stick to one character also", actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzaz Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I just want them to add Torgruta, Neutolan, and Kel Dor as playable races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRaeth Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) So what class doesn't let you have humans as an option? Oh wait, all of them, wonder if they have something to deal with that. Edited March 7, 2012 by LordRaeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think there's a misunderstanding in the last few posts based on this. Nrieh had said, "I still don't see how they support my main-gaming." I think this was in reference to what I had said about the system mechanically and mathematically encouraging mains. When a system is top-heavy or advancement in the system is exponentially proportional to level, then alts see less advancement than mains. It's a fundamental contradiction in what's intended with the legacy system versus how the legacy system actually plays out. It actually isn't. The Legacy system is intended to extend how long players will stay subscribed with the "carrot on a stick" concept where the Legacy benefits that affect lower level alts are the carrot and the Legacy levels are the proverbial stick holding the carrot: it's intended and plays out as intended. To compare the Legacy system to something adequate would be to compare them to Heirloom items from WoW in which players gained them at great expense with their high level characters, so that their alts would benefit from them later. Like Heirlooms the Legacy benefits do not benefit the high level characters in any meaningful way because they are intended to improve/change the leveling experience for players on their alts. The two systems are very similar in that at some point the player has to decide if they actually need more benefits from the system, or if they want to level an alt instead. In the case of Legacy, all the XP an alt gains also feeds the Legacy level so the choice isn't going to be either/or. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitharen Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 According to some Guild Summit FAQ most of the Legacy rewards can simply be bought off some vendor. This whole Legacy concept seems more aimed to roleplayers and not to min-maxers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBlackout Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) It actually isn't. The Legacy system is intended to extend how long players will stay subscribed with the "carrot on a stick" concept where the Legacy benefits that affect lower level alts are the carrot and the Legacy levels are the proverbial stick holding the carrot: it's intended and plays out as intended. I suggest you think critically about what you're saying rather than just handing out cliches. A carrot on a stick is used to denote rewards that continually extend out the same type of behavior. A horse walking, a character grinding. It doesn't sufficiently describe adding in benefits to an altogether different type of play. I alt because I do what I feel like. If you're entirely motivated by that collect-them-all mentality, then that's cool, but I grew out of that when I grew out of happy meals. Also, you're not above a cliche if you're using it (as quotations imply). If we substitute legacy and heirlooms interchangeably, then your metaphor may make more sense. Heirlooms were put in an MMO late in its life to give old players something to do. Legacy, however, was put into place early in its life and is innovation for innovation's sake. Games like these need something to make them stand out against their competitors. In truth, it's a quite sad reality because there hasn't been a whole lot of creativity in the past 10 years or so, but that doesn't negate the difference between intention of innovation and intention of appropriation. Even if it did, it would garner more resentment than subscriptions. For the same reasons the contrary is true. People don't want to have to play alts to get the most mileage out of their mains. To compare the Legacy system to something adequate would be to compare them to Heirloom items from WoW in which players gained them at great expense with their high level characters, so that their alts would benefit from them later. Like Heirlooms the Legacy benefits do not benefit the high level characters in any meaningful way because they are intended to improve/change the leveling experience for players on their alts. The two systems are very similar in that at some point the player has to decide if they actually need more benefits from the system, or if they want to level an alt instead. In the case of Legacy, all the XP an alt gains also feeds the Legacy level so the choice isn't going to be either/or No, actually heirlooms aren't an adequate comparison to the legacy system. In addition to the above, heirlooms are bought, given and done with. An alt can contribute virtually nothing to the accessibility of said heirlooms, and by design it severely hampers any attempts to change that (if an alt could get it, then it would just be an item, not an heirloom). The legacy system, once activated, offers continual advancement that intends on improving the enjoyment of a specific style of play. Also, it isn't bound to function under the same terms as heirlooms because once it's unlocked then it can be advanced by any character. Thus it's not obligated to reward any one character disproportionately. Herein likes the error in that it unnecessarily prejudices against alts when it's a system designed for alts. Consequently, the reason the PVP vs PVE comparison is superior is because it offers an example of how a player can prefer one style while having to pay for it with an altogether different style of play. Edited March 7, 2012 by CaptainBlackout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orkaan Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) I have a lvl 50 Zabrak Sorcerer and a almost lvl 50 Cyborg BH. As far as I know they are already free for every class, what now? Isn't a big disadvantage? How could I now at the release, that Bioware will unlock races for all classes, which are already played to end lvl. If i knew that, I woulf play ratataki an chiss for this two classes. I earned in this case something what is already exist, in other words "nothing" I think i earned the right to choose 2 new races, if they are the classes which i already can use or not. Otherwise is it nothing else than crap for me. Edited March 7, 2012 by Orkaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnapWolf Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Way to make a problem out of something trivial, folks. In the end, races are purely cosmetic and should not stop you from enjoying the game. Also, in case you missed the heads up, levelling a character to level 50 to unlock the race is just one way. Bioware took it into consideration that some people might not be inclined to make multiple alts. That's why the race-combos can also be bought in your Legacy Menu with credits. How much they are? I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fritz- Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 i just want to know 1 thing. who thought it was a good idea to require leveling a character to 50 just to unlock its race for other classes? i honestly dont care if they spent 100 billion trillion millions... telling me to waste weeks of time to unlock a single race for play on other classes is one of the most R-tarded things ive seen come out of the mmo genre in years. they are basically catering to basement dwelling trolls who have nothing better to do with their lives than play swtor 24/7. honestly at this point its like watching a train wreck. i know this is going to end badly, but i dont want to look away cause i want to see it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazzer Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 i just want to know 1 thing. who thought it was a good idea to require leveling a character to 50 just to unlock its race for other classes? i honestly dont care if they spent 100 billion trillion millions... telling me to waste weeks of time to unlock a single race for play on other classes is one of the most R-tarded things ive seen come out of the mmo genre in years. they are basically catering to basement dwelling trolls who have nothing better to do with their lives than play swtor 24/7. honestly at this point its like watching a train wreck. i know this is going to end badly, but i dont want to look away cause i want to see it happen. There are nor racial bonuses to a class, races are purely aesthetic. It's basically a roleplaying mechanism and nothing more. You picked your current races because you liked them how has that changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawke Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I have a lvl 50 Zabrak Sorcerer and a almost lvl 50 Cyborg BH. As far as I know they are already free for every class, what now? Isn't a big disadvantage? How could I now at the release, that Bioware will unlock races for all classes, which are already played to end lvl. If i knew that, I woulf play ratataki an chiss for this two classes. I earned in this case something what is already exist, in other words "nothing" I think i earned the right to choose 2 new races, if they are the classes which i already can use or not. Otherwise is it nothing else than crap for me. Sith Zabrak have the "red" faces... Only available for a couple of classes Sith side. The Cyborg is only available for a couple of classes total. So you could in essence, make a Jedi Knight Cyborg if you wanted. Ok, I read through every post here and all I see is a LOT of whining. Have you folks ever played a Bioware game? Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Neverwinter Nights? They are all about the Completionist attitude. If that is not your cup of tea, dont worry about it, they are offering up an ingame purchase of the races and abilities that come with the legacy system. You do not need to play multiple characters if you do not wish to. If they had Pazaak in game, and offered in game items for cards you got (ala EQ2) would you be getting angry with rage if you did not want to play the card game to get the neat items from it? Meh, probably you would. Nothing from legacy gives you a leg up in game. It is all just for flavor. Nothing more. The abilities, to my knowledge, cannot be used in PvP and the races... most people wear a helmet or hooded robes, who cares. If you want to do it, for free, do the grind. Bioware is not the first nor will they be the last who does this. Should they have announced it before launch? Hell yes. And an apology would be cool, but I am not holding my breath. As I have 2 human characters who are either 50 or near it. So I do not benefit from this. Just relax people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logisitcs Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 You can pay to unlock it with in game credits.......... what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miravlix Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Doesn't this thread completely fail due to the fact you can throw CREDITS at the legacy system to unlock. You don't need a level 50 SPICES to unlock, it's just ONE way to unlock. BTW: Race means something else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawke Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Doesn't this thread completely fail due to the fact you can throw CREDITS at the legacy system to unlock. You don't need a level 50 SPICES to unlock, it's just ONE way to unlock. BTW: Race means something else... Spices is something else too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miravlix Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Spices is something else too. I have dyslexia, so spelling I have trouble with, so I can't spell that word, but at least I know what it means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBlackout Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Have you folks ever played a Bioware game? Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Neverwinter Nights? They are all about the Completionist attitude. Yes, and more than those listed. Neverwinter Nights? Completionist? Think before you speak, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-sasori Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) There are nor racial bonuses to a class, races are purely aesthetic. It's basically a roleplaying mechanism and nothing more. You picked your current races because you liked them how has that changed? I picked my current race because of the lack of choice. Exactly nothing has changed and that IS the issue. Until i know what exactly i need to "purchase" the race. It's still a big letdown that i need to re-role my main. Edited March 7, 2012 by -sasori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawke Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Yes, and more than those listed. Neverwinter Nights? Completionist? Think before you speak, man. Umm Yeah? They had a crapload of quests in that game and the expansions that came out. Along with other things in the game. And a crapload of expansions and modules, with it with an amazing tool for modders that caught them by surprise as to how welcomed and used by the community it was. So yes, I think before I speak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawke Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I have dyslexia, so spelling I have trouble with, so I can't spell that word, but at least I know what it means. Dyslexia for just the word Species? Yet your spelling and word usage is just fine with your entire post, well posts? I was giving you a harmless hard time with the SPICES. Relax hoss. you misspelled a word that a lot of people mess up on. That is why it is used in spelling bees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fritz- Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) There are nor racial bonuses to a class, races are purely aesthetic. It's basically a roleplaying mechanism and nothing more. You picked your current races because you liked them how has that changed? i just think its the most idiotic system ever invented, but hey, defend away. i mean ok say i want a cyborg jedi, so i have to go level some other class to 50 with a cyborg first, then i can play the cyborg jedi. its giving the old saying "going around your *** to get to your elbow" whole new meaning. Edited March 7, 2012 by -Fritz- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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