buubz Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Breaks the game? I think it makes the game. It makes the game much more complex. Huttball is not a spam aoe WZ. It requires tactics and thought. While I'll agree that Huttball is better than Voidstar in the sense that it isn't an AoE fest, it's also the most susceptible to gimmick comps ruling the scoreboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 So by your logic, a team full of players with leaps/pulls vs. a team without them, they should be an even match by tactics alone. I find that very hard to believe. Of course not, that would mean your team is lacking tools that are valuable in huttball. I don't claim that the abilities aren't effective. They are and should be used. They aren't IWIN buttons though, they are tools that people should be aware of and attempt to counter. Unless you're fielding a team loaded with operatives or something, you have things available to disrupt the flow of passes, leaps, and pulls on the catwalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wessik Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) So by your logic, a team full of players with leaps/pulls vs. a team without them, they should be an even match by tactics alone. I find that very hard to believe. i'm a sniper, leaps and pulls do not work on me in cover... i can even prevent myself from being pushed off... if you control the middle, and have the ball, and prevent the enemy from camping in your endzone ramps, then yes your team can win... that's teamwork... if you have the ball, and half their team is camping on your ramps, they are useless back there while you score and score.... if you don't have the ball, and never clear them from your ramps, they're going to score repeatedly... i don't play the pull/leap classes, but someone who does will know what the cooldown is... i'm under the impression that they have a "longish" cooldown anyways right? Edited March 7, 2012 by wessik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fal- Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 You're sure this topic has been beaten like a dead horse so you post it anyways? And it's not going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buubz Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 i'm a sniper, leaps and pulls do not work on me in cover... i can even prevent myself from being pushed off... if you control the middle, and have the ball, and prevent the enemy from camping in your endzone ramps, then yes your team can win... that's teamwork... if you have the ball, and half their team is camping on your ramps, they are useless back there while you score and score.... if you don't have the ball, and never clear them from your ramps, they're going to score repeatedly... i don't play the pull/leap classes, but someone who does will know what the cooldown is... i'm under the impression that they have a "longish" cooldown anyways right? It's on a 1 minute CD, also confrontations on the defenders ramps/pathways can also be avoided by the sorc/sage just by using their knockback. Also, for some reason everyone seems to think that I'm saying as soon as one sorc/sage is on the opposing team, I'm instantly classifying the game as a loss. I'd love to know where they're getting this from what I've posted. I'm saying that multiple chains of the rescue ability simultaneously is what is imbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buubz Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 You're sure this topic has been beaten like a dead horse so you post it anyways? And it's not going anywhere. Partially because I had just finished a game with a group of 4 sages that just chained it all the way along to the goal 2 times and turtled the rest of the match, and partially because I'm bored. But thanks for reading babe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signahead Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I agreed with you until your last sentence, but I respect your opinion on the matter. I also agree with you and the poster you quoted on about being part of passing chains, as I think that's the essence of skilled huttball play. There's a chance for failure in passes though as they can be intercepted, and have travel time for people to adjust. This chance for failure isn't present in rescue however, which is my problem. I can respect that. Ideally you want to have both variety and balance. If there is an imbalance (and I'm not convinced there is a meaningful imbalance in Huttball), then the two may come into conflict. A lot of these discussions call for balance at the expense of variety. I want to make sure that there's at least one voice advocating for variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buubz Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I can respect that. Ideally you want to have both variety and balance. If there is an imbalance (and I'm not convinced there is a meaningful imbalance in Huttball), then the two may come into conflict. A lot of these discussions call for balance at the expense of variety. I want to make sure that there's at least one voice advocating for variety. I would have no problem with a team full of sorcs if this wasn't a problem. If they added a debuff preventing the use of rescue on the player just rescued (for ~15s lets say) then this wouldn't be an issue, but at this point in time, there is no such debuff, so it remains an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henu Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 yup you dont pvp i do PVP, take me on! Henu kaas City server, republic Sage Seer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henu Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 it just sounds your a bit sore after having your butt kicked and now your mad.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wessik Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It's on a 1 minute CD, also confrontations on the defenders ramps/pathways can also be avoided by the sorc/sage just by using their knockback. Also, for some reason everyone seems to think that I'm saying as soon as one sorc/sage is on the opposing team, I'm instantly classifying the game as a loss. I'd love to know where they're getting this from what I've posted. I'm saying that multiple chains of the rescue ability simultaneously is what is imbalanced. i'm a sniper and i have a disadvantage cuz i first have to go into cover, THEN kb.... others do not... i don't know what class you play, but do you not have a knockback as well? the 7 other people in the WZ didn't have a knockback? after they scored the first time, did you guys just let them stand there or did somebody knock them off? you just said they have a 1 min cooldown so they couldn't just instapull someone, no one on your team did anything about it that whole time? if even 1 of your team knocked down the guy in the endzone to the pit, they wouldn't have scored the 2nd time so easily right? i'm just saying that you can use tactics of your own to prevent their pull tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buubz Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 it just sounds your a bit sore after having your butt kicked and now your mad.. Now now, let's not flame. I'm trying to find a productive solution to multiple rescue chains that destroy the need for passing, and you pull the classic "you're mad"? Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anwg Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I can see getting pulled emptying out the resolve bar. These days I make it a mission to get rid of any one camping my side of the catwalks, either kill or at least make him/her run away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buubz Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 i'm a sniper and i have a disadvantage cuz i first have to go into cover, THEN kb.... others do not... i don't know what class you play, but do you not have a knockback as well? the 7 other people in the WZ didn't have a knockback? after they scored the first time, did you guys just let them stand there or did somebody knock them off? you just said they have a 1 min cooldown so they couldn't just instapull someone, no one on your team did anything about it that whole time? if even 1 of your team knocked down the guy in the endzone to the pit, they wouldn't have scored the 2nd time so easily right? i'm just saying that you can use tactics of your own to prevent their pull tactics The match that I was in before I wrote this had a team of 4 sages queueing together. I personally play a pyrotech, which has 0 knockbacks regardless of spec. The opposing team immediately set up a 4 person pull chain, and scored right away. They then turtled the ball, set up again and scored once more. After they had 2 points they spent the rest of the game turtling and farming. One thing that so many people posting on this thread don't realize is while I may have the presence of mind to save my grapple for when the ball carrier is in the endzone, other players on my team may not think to let me grapple, so they overlap stuns, fill the resolve bar, and I'm left trying to burn them down as I now have no other way to stop them. Tactics are hard to achieve when even 1 bad player can ruin a good plan in 2 globals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buubz Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I can see getting pulled emptying out the resolve bar. These days I make it a mission to get rid of any one camping my side of the catwalks, either kill or at least make him/her run away. That would cause way too much crying in the sage/sorc community so that's out of the question. Like I said, a simple 10-15s debuff preventing the use of another rescue on the same player would suffice and would prevent long rescue chains from happening in quick succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wessik Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The match that I was in before I wrote this had a team of 4 sages queueing together. I personally play a pyrotech, which has 0 knockbacks regardless of spec. The opposing team immediately set up a 4 person pull chain, and scored right away. They then turtled the ball, set up again and scored once more. After they had 2 points they spent the rest of the game turtling and farming. One thing that so many people posting on this thread don't realize is while I may have the presence of mind to save my grapple for when the ball carrier is in the endzone, other players on my team may not think to let me grapple, so they overlap stuns, fill the resolve bar, and I'm left trying to burn them down as I now have no other way to stop them. Tactics are hard to achieve when even 1 bad player can ruin a good plan in 2 globals. some things i noticed... 1. if i saw that they were going to score quick, i'd let them score the first 1, but then immediately go to center to control middle and get the ball... you get the ball, chain pull is useless... half their team is out of the picture... 2. alot of people have no idea what skills you have... whenever you start a new wz, i suggest you immediately tell people you can grapple people so they don't overlap the stuns and fill the bar... after all, a good grapple away from goalline is better than a aoe flashbang mezz (which i have) that breaks on damage... if someone told me that, i'd remember... 3. maybe you could have grappled the middle man off the ramp to prevent the first pass... thus enabling ball carrier 1 to be chain stunned and killed, and leaving the 3rd guy in your endzone doing nothing and not an immediate factor... meanwhile your team is high stepping to the endzone relatively unopposed... 4. you could have told your teammates to kill or kb the 3rd guy in the end zone to stop the last link... like i said, i'm not saying that 1 game wasn't frustrating, but you learn from it, and come up with some tactics to prevent it in the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruwe Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 All I can say to the OP is, get a team together. Each faction has a mirror class. Huttball is all about teamwork, if you go in on a PUG and are playing against a pre-made of people who play together all the time and are on voice... I don't care if you have all the pull/leap abilities and their full of nothing but operatives/scoundrels, they can still beat you. It's all about team work and balance. Anything you see the other team doing, you can do also.. remember that, and then go find a good guild to pvp with. If you prefer to queue solo, get used to losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulukinatme Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) I kinda laughed last week about the "Nerf Sprint" thread. Sprint is more of an afterthought in PVP at 50. Force Pull is used way more to score in that bracket and probably more effective than Sprint. Not that I'm complainin', I don't have a problem with it. Edited March 7, 2012 by ulukinatme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Good teams still pass all the time. learn how to do it and learn where you need to be to receive a pass especially when your ball carrier gets pulled in the pit etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldin Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I find it amusing the people that use "Play as a team" as a rebuttal. What happens if your team doesn't happen to have anyone that can do friendly pull, or many knockbacks, or perhaps an enemy pull? What if the opposing team has all these Sorc/Sage pulls, and they're playing like a team as well? You won't stand a chance, especially as a PUG. These abilities just shouldn't be able to be used in huttball. Slows, Stuns, Knockbacks. Those are all fine. Anything that helps one team score extremely fast (and not passing the ball) however just make the game unfair, and not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derian Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Im sorry but i think its you that has no clue, it just seems you have come up against a team knowing what they are doing in Hutt Ball it seems that you just a little upset. If BW took out all the abilities that people are complaining about then what type of game would we have? Pong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxkardinal Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Imagine an Operative/Scoundresl could stealth with the ball. You guys would be puking with **** in tat case, and would be countered with: "you just got owned by a good team, which know what to do, baddie" Every braindead replies with same BS about being good or bad, over and over, no matter what the topic of discussion. Its NOT ABOUT good or bad players, its about having or not having utility in a specific WZ. Some have too much, some have too few. And thats it. The main line question - why make such a WZ where some classes has benefits, which is close to zero, for the team play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derian Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Imagine an Operative/Scoundresl could stealth with the ball. You guys would be puking with **** in tat case, and would be countered with: "you just got owned by a good team, which know what to do, baddie" Every braindead replies with same BS about being good or bad, over and over, no matter what the topic of discussion. Its NOT ABOUT good or bad players, its about having or not having utility in a specific WZ. Some have too much, some have too few. And thats it. The main line question - why make such a WZ where some classes has benefits, which is close to zero, for the team play? Every Role has a responsiblity. DPS must help to control certain areas. Controlling the middle is extremely important beause no matter who scores first, or spikes, the ball will respawn in the middle every time. You need to kill, CC will only get you so far mid. Tanks need to protect healers and ball carrier, or sorcs in position to grab ball. Healers need to heal the carrier. Utility needs to do things like pull etc, but while they are concentrating on, you know, objectives, they are vulnurable. I am a Sentinel, I typically don't act as ball carrier but I help to control mid, and the upper areas since I can leap up to sorcs etc. Im not a very good ball carrier even though my class can make one, for short bursts. Huttball is about teamwork, and really it's people who only know how to DPS that complain. Typically, competent healers are smart enough to realize what it is, so do tanks, but all DPS requires is tunnel vision and a rotation. To be OK. DPS is a dime a dozen, and so bad/mediocre players will come here and complain, rather than improve. I really don't want to be condescending, but typically people bad at Huttball, or complain about it, just flat out aren't good at PVP in SWTOR. I know it may hurt your pride, but it's true. Huttball is a great great map, and it is all about a Team. 8 of any class that works as a team will crush 8 disoritented Inquisitors/Consulars no matter how much you complain about them. Huttball is all about teamplay, no ifs ands or butts. If it wasn't pull, people would just pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derian Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Now now, let's not flame. I'm trying to find a productive solution to multiple rescue chains that destroy the need for passing, and you pull the classic "you're mad"? Shame. Kill the people in the rescue chain. Break the chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ademnus Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'm sure this has been beat to death, but the fact that this is usable on the ball carrier completely breaks Huttball as a warzone. It's an entirely comp dependant warzone at this point, and if you have leaps/team pulls, you instantly have an advantage, not to mention the insane ranged bias that's already present. Either disable these abilities on the ball carrier, or redesign this gimmick of a map. will you then also agree that trooper's should not be allowed to pull enemy ball carriers, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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