PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs

[Tiddex]

it is a fact that we will better through numbers. humans will grow through numbers and science. its a fact. and we want to be better.

 

you dont have to follow our ways. no one is forcing you to. but if a person who does the math goes up against a person like you who doesnt want to get involved in numbers and just do it blindly. who do you think will win? i must remind you that this isnt some cartoon where you use your heart to beat the great evil.

 

why stop us from being better than we can be?

 

because you won´t stop whining and kicking people from your guild until each and every raid uses your tools.

[Monfort]

It's not MY way to play. Supplying a combat log is the way every MMO ever since the technology is available has done it. I am not an elitist, I am just a guy who played some other games before and who likes to be able to see exactly the numbers behind what just wen on on the screen.

 

I don't need to rub my super leet dps numbers into anybodys face either. I don't have to. Everybody can freely choose the kind of people he wants to play with. And while I don't do any PvE at the moment I am actually in a guild where I would not even be tempted to troll my guildees with my incredibly leet numberz.

 

This game is barely 3 months old, I don't expect it to be perfect. That's why I am here. That's why I am posting. You post because you 'dont care. I am posting because I do care.

 

You ASSUME that I don't care. You don't know me and have no clue how I feel. I do care. Thats why we don't need the combat logs in any form other than what the devs are offering. Too many times, in many MMOs, I have seen combat logs used to justify all kinds of stupid elitist behavior and massive amounts of epeen stroking. I care enough that I do not want to see that immature behavior in this game. You will get to see your numbers.

[Taroen]

Thank you for just proving my point exactly. You just said that if we dont play the way you do then we are bad players. You're the hypocrite.

 

And more than once you people have said that people who want logs are bad because they're a "crutch"... which is laughable, but the point is that you think their style of play is bad, and they think your style of play is bad.

 

Only problem is, no one is forcing you to play with the people you think are bad, and no one is forcing you to use meters. Find people who don't want to use them to play with. But instead you want to force everyone else to play like you want to play.

 

Who's the hypocrit?

[ferroz]

errr If you didnt know. they do that here. on this forum. people post the best rotation for every spec. you dont need logs for that. its just logic.

No, without hard data to support it, that's not logic. It's supposition.

 

supposition is good enough for some people. Not for others.

 

you must be a troll... people are not surprised by fights anymore in any mmo. people post up boss fights all the time.

No, I'm often surprised, since I don't look them up in advance.

[holydok]

because you won´t stop whining and kicking people from your guild until each and every raid uses your tools.

 

what is your point? we want to be better. we are not going to carry a monkey sucking on someones *** through a content. this is how hardcore guilds start and play.

 

your post has implications of wanting to be carried. do you not want to pull your weight? if you can adapt, just join another guild who is more lenient.

 

we raid to progress. not commune and wipe for 3 hours.

[Taroen]

You ASSUME that I don't care. You don't know me and have no clue how I feel. I do care. Thats why we don't need the combat logs in any form other than what the devs are offering. Too many times, in many MMOs, I have seen combat logs used to justify all kinds of stupid elitist behavior and massive amounts of epeen stroking. I care enough that I do not want to see that immature behavior in this game. You will get to see your numbers.

 

And... AGAIN... Why are you so desperate to play with those people!?!?!

 

I see someone using meters to stroke their e-peen and the first thing I do is thank them for outing themselves as idiots and add them to ignore.

 

Immature people are going to be just as immature, whether there are logs or not.

[Monfort]

it is a fact that we will better through numbers. humans will grow through numbers and science. its a fact. and we want to be better.

 

you dont have to follow our ways. no one is forcing you to. but if a person who does the math goes up against a person like you who doesnt want to get involved in numbers and just do it blindly. who do you think will win? i must remind you that this isnt some cartoon where you use your heart to beat the great evil.

 

why stop us from being better than we can be?

 

 

Uh.... based on this the thread the apparently the masses who don't want to follow the numbers greatly outnumber those that do. You seem to be in the minority in fact. You will get a combat log. I'm sorry the version the devs are offering isn't what you seem to be wanting. Most of us seem to be happy with it.

[mufutiz]

NOT every gamer plays for stats and numbers, not every gamer learns from that method of scrutiny. Damn I died, why, gonna try this combo. its part of the fun....

Public Logs create an elitist culture, dropping and snubbing average gamers from a group. You create this in every MMO, then wonder why the subs drop off. You are in the minority and not a decent gamer by applying this method. Ego driven

 

 

The bad experiences with parsers must have been really traumatizing for most of the guys here...lol. It's actually a little bit hilarious to read the responses.

Most posters reading comprehension is nonexistant as soon as they read words like DPS, combat log, parser, and the like.

 

I never mentioned public logs. A basic combat log telling you information about your character and nobody else in your group... that would be enough.

 

Repeat after me : Your damage, your received damage, passive actions like dodging and shielding, status effects and secondary effects affecting your character and your enemy. That's it.

 

It has zero to do with evaluating the performance of someone in your group.

 

I don't get where all the combat log anxiety is coming from, seriously.

 

 

Bioware is implementing them exactly as how I proposed they be implemented in other combat log threads, so I vote against any further change. My understanding of the combat log is that they will be visible in-game but that they will also be able to write to a disk for 3rd party apps to process detailed information.

 

LOTRO was known as a "wow clone", and the combat log has never gone beyond seeing only the player's stats. There are no DPS meters or threat meters, and we have no problem raiding without them.

 

exactly. lotros combat log is totally functional and doing exactly what a combat log should.

 

your understanding of the combat log in swtor is wrong though, it is not visible in the game. It might be possible to paste the data into the chat window but it is NOT a combat log like you are used to from lotro.

 

and that's the issue why people keep complaining,I am afraid a lot of people are not aware what "combat log" we are going to get in this game. It's not a real time combat log but a log file.

 

there is little doubt some guilds will require you to post your log files after every encounter. maybe this will even happen for hardmode flashpoints. And since there is no other way to evaluate someones performance other than guesswork, people will be wary to group up with strangers and unjustified kicks and group disbands will happen regardless.

Edited March 8, 2012 by mufutiz

[ferroz]

What exactly do you want the log to tell you if your not promoting DPS elitism...

Someone posted a pretty godo top 10 list for the stuff that he wanted it for a while back

 

1. Who Ganked me while I was questing

2. Who sucks most in the group

3. Why do I suck the most in my group

4. Why do we all suck so bad on the raid

5. Why is this boss hitting so hard

6. What the hell was that?>!

7. What was the name of that ninja

8. When will that boss crush us with his euber power shot

9. How many mobs did we have on us

10. All the other MMOs do it

 

dps elitism is part of (but not all of) 2 and 3. None of the rest are.

Edited March 8, 2012 by ferroz

[Drewser]

you're in the minority.

 

this game is made for people who do not care and don't want to know.

And made by people who do not care and don't want you to know.

 

This realization slowly crept up on me over the last couple of months.

And it actually makes it easier to appreciate the game for what it is, a mmorpg light so to speak, if you want to play a real MMO though - keep looking.

 

Lies. He will have a personal log plus and in game chat window option that will clearly show what just did 50% damage to him.

 

Very few in this thread are arguing against that.

[Monfort]

And... AGAIN... Why are you so desperate to play with those people!?!?!

 

I see someone using meters to stroke their e-peen and the first thing I do is thank them for outing themselves as idiots and add them to ignore.

 

Immature people are going to be just as immature, whether there are logs or not.

 

Why do you assume I'm desperate to play with these people? Because I happen to play the same MMO they are? I don't group with people who require you to be geared exactly as they want or specced exactly the way they want? So AGAIN, I'm NOT DESPERATE to play with them. Why do you keep ASSUIMG that I am?

Edited March 8, 2012 by Monfort

[mufutiz]

Most of us seem to be happy with it.

 

That's just the thing. This complacency is just so wrong.

[ferroz]

because you won´t stop whining and kicking people from your guild until each and every raid uses your tools.

if he's actually the type of person who would do that, he'll be doing it just as much without those tools... he'll just be using subjective rather than objective reasons.

[holydok]

Uh.... based on this the thread the apparently the masses who don't want to follow the numbers greatly outnumber those that do. You seem to be in the minority in fact. You will get a combat log. I'm sorry the version the devs are offering isn't what you seem to be wanting. Most of us seem to be happy with it.

 

so now you agree with me and my argument. yet you come to a conclusion as to apologize to me that the company is going through with a different decision than what i had in mind.

 

At least i got one person to see it our way instead of being so self absorbed.

 

if we are the minority. whats the harm in giving us what we want? its gonna be a small group of people wanting to have our own fun.

 

you guys make it seem every guild is going to do this. yet we are the minority.

[Taroen]

Why do you assume I'm desperate to play with these people? Because I happen to play the same MMO they are? I don't group with people who require you to be geared exactly as they want or specced exactly the way they want? So AGAIN, I'm NOT DESPERATE to play with them. Why do you keep ASSUIMG that I am?

 

Because you care so much what they do. It's obvious in every post you make.

 

I LOVE that they stroke their e-peen. Then I can identify them easily and ignore them so I never have to play with them. You on the other hand, don't want people to have metrics even if they aren't using them in an immature way, which leads me to believe that you want to hide something.

 

Your own poor performance being the most likely.

[mufutiz]

Lies. He will have a personal log plus and in game chat window option that will clearly show what just did 50% damage to him.

 

Very few in this thread are arguing against that.

 

that's not true. There is no ingame chat window. Which is what I am complaining about for a while now... it's only a log file.

 

 

Here is the official quote:

 

Combat log will show everything incoming and outgoing to your character, that can be saved to disk. However, you can’t flag a button to see how everyone else is doing. Also, this will work out of game, not in.

 

If you want to see the combat data you need to do it outside the game, you will not be able to see what just did those 50% damage inside the game.

 

That's what I have been trying to explain but people just keep rambling on about dps meters and all that crap

[ferroz]

Why do you assume I'm desperate to play with these people?

I'm just guessing without reading the whole context of your discussion: because it's being cited as a reason to not have the logs, and if you aren't desperate to play with these people then it doesn't affect you one whit, so you don't actually have a valid argument against them....

[ferroz]

Then I can identify them easily and ignore them so I never have to play with them.

Likewise. I pugged a lot in wow, and I liked meters and gearscore because they made the people I didn't want to pug with very obvious Edited March 8, 2012 by ferroz

[Zanakar]

If end-game content is/should be purely about min-maxing numbers, then why not allow people to run all-NPC teams ? That way they can min-max every team member's numbers AND be sure that those team members do only what they are expected to do, instead of wasting time with pointless stuff like socializing.

Raids/operations/whatevers should be about gameplay and not RL life stories of course, just that like others have already pointed out, if all that people want to do is to min-max numbers, why not take that to maximum and remove the pointless "human factor" entirely since people obviously don't want to team up with other human players but with characters that are fully optimized for tank, heal, DPS or whatever.

Seen it at other games, for example the sheer hypocrisy at Guild Wars still amuses me: People crying and crying about how "NPC companions ruined teamplay", yet in practice the first thing that same people wanted at actual teams was to make sure that everyone in team has latest FotM build and generally played in a way that could easily have been replicated by a bot program and nobody, especially these "MMOGs are about teaming up"- people, would have noticed the difference.

 

Ah, the good old days when the real fun and appeal of teamplay was about the fun of playing with other humans.

[Taroen]

Likewise. I pugged a lot in wow, and I liked meters and gearscore because they made the people I didn't want to pug with very obvious

 

You... dirty elitist you..!

 

For shame that you should DARE to ever want to play with people who you know will hold up their end of the deal...

 

For SHAME!

[ferroz]

You... dirty elitist you..!

 

For shame that you should DARE to ever want to play with people who you know will hold up their end of the deal...

 

For SHAME!

Maybe you're misunderstanding.

 

If they posted a gearscrore requirement, I didn't pug with them ....even though I was certainly well over what they required.

 

If they posted a dps requirement I didn't run with them unless they were specifically doing a fight that had a tight enrage time; Tol Barad when cata first launched, for example. Even then, I only did it if they had a reasonable dps requirement for the content that they were doing.

 

I didn't run raids with people if they required certain addons.

 

 

Personally, I was fine with going into a raid, even if I was carrying people with my dps, or teaching people how to do the fights if i was on my tank.

 

Filtering all of these people out didn't have any impact on my ability to pug raids.

Edited March 8, 2012 by ferroz

[Drewser]

that's not true. There is no ingame chat window. Which is what I am complaining about for a while now... it's only a log file.

 

 

Here is the official quote:

 

 

 

If you want to see the combat data you need to do it outside the game, you will not be able to see what just did those 50% damage inside the game.

 

That's what I have been trying to explain but people just keep rambling on about dps meters and all that crap

 

This is the line right before what was quoted: "As of 1.2, you will be able to put something in a chat window."

 

I guess we have to wait to see what "something" is but there is a chat window option of some sort.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Drewser

[Chinaexpress]

Now I see why so many posts in this threads are in support of not having in-game combat logs now. Bioware is removing all of the posts who supports combat logs.

 

Just wrote a a few paragraphs in support of combat logs and my post was taken down in matters of seconds due to me saying the word "bad". Terrible.

[ferroz]

Now I see why so many posts in this threads are in support of not having in-game combat logs now. Bioware is removing all of the posts who supports combat logs.

 

Just wrote a a few paragraphs in support of combat logs and my post was taken down in matters of seconds due to me saying the word "bad". Terrible.

No, they removed posts where people are blatantly flaming other people.

 

You can post stuff in support of combat logs without falling back on the "if you don't want it, you must suck" garbage.

[Revenaught]

Now I see why so many posts in this threads are in support of not having in-game combat logs now. Bioware is removing all of the posts who supports combat logs.

 

Just wrote a a few paragraphs in support of combat logs and my post was taken down in matters of seconds due to me saying the word "bad". Terrible.

 

And even if they were, that doesnt explain the 3 to 1 vote against them in the poll the OP linked to in the opening post.