Coyotecalls Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Thanks for that conjecture. I'll humor you, I have a fulltime job, go to the gym 5 days a week and take jiu jitus classes once per week. This game isn't hard, sorry to say. You can spend 1 night a week doing OPS, thats all the time I dedicate to PvE. Are you also a secret agent? Is your code name Duchess? Wait! Don't tell me, then you would have to kill me. But lets hear from the rest of the peanut gallery. What had the experience been for every one else? Have you gotten PVP gear at insane speeds with little effort? Are you also, "Beast"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ukita Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Why make PVP non PVE viable? Because my guild went into Hardmode in full champion gear and wrecked all of the content in the first night? That's completely fair right? Should have made Tionese gear better to start out with. Edited March 6, 2012 by Ukita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venjinze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Are you also a secret agent? Is your code name Duchess? Wait! Don't tell me, then you would have to kill me. But lets hear from the rest of the peanut gallery. What had the experience been for every one else? Have you gotten PVP gear at insane speeds with little effort? Are you also, "Beast"? I guess having an intellectual debate on these forums was too much to ask for. I did not say it takes little effort, I said it's easily attainable, which it is. If you're too inept to understand my posts, which you are because you seem to be taking them personally and feel the need to retaliate with speculation on my life outside of the game, stop replying. You lost the debate and regressed to what's essentially name calling. Why not just say what you really feel, "Bioware give me gear because I'm too lazy to put in the effort." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzhokhar Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Instead they could have just made the gear for both PVP and PVE the same and just allowed people to choose which method they wanted to use to get it. They could have just made them visually different. You've totally missed the point. At least in the case of WoW, what you propose would have resulted in all of the decent PvE guilds REQUIRING people to gear up in PvP before being allowed to join. In other words, people would have been REQUIRED to PvP just to be allowed into PvE content. I understand that what you want is to be able to gear up via PvP and then Raid with your buddies, but if that becomes possible, there's a good chance that other people who hate PvP will be forced to gear up in PvP just to get into guilds that do PvE Raid content. Personally, I don't really have a problem with expecting people to do all of the endgame PvE content in order rather than skipping over most of it by PvPing for epic gear. The process of progression and getting new gear is what makes MMOs fun, why would I want to skip it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelelement Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) There is absolutely zero logic behind PVP stats. I wish Expertise would be gotten rid off and for PVP sets to have stats and bonuses suited towards PVP. I'd like to be able to get into the raid game without needing to start from the beginning of an arbitrarily separate treadmill. PVP gear is good. PVP stats are bad. They should have just added a slot like the Relic Slot with PvP stats on it that could be upgradeable based on your Valor Rank. I find it incredibly annoying switching out my cloths all the time. It also takes up a lot of inventory space. That way it just becomes a passive stat when you fight another player, and its out of the way for PvE. Then again I like simple solutions to problems... Edited March 6, 2012 by pixelelement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitewolfe Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 IMO the bigger the gap the better! If i had a hand in it i would make pve gear worthless in pvp and pvp gear worthless in pve! Frankly the 2 playstles need to be completely separate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolveroach Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Two schools of thought here. 1) All End Game gear is the same. You can hit metrics in PvP to get access to different tiers or complete raid content and do the same. It won't matter which path (or both) you follow, you end up in the same place. This would require about the same amount of time working through both trees to reach each metric or one path will take over the game. PvP is always available even when playing solo, raids are not. PvP results vary between each match, raids are either successful or not. How can you make the time and skill involved for both equal? If you can answer this, you are smarter than me. 2) Two completely seperate paths with entirely seperate gear sets. This allows the progression to be independent for each path. It requires time put into each path to excel at both. It is easy for the Devs because they don't have to worry about balance between the two paths. The downside is this requires each set of gear to stand out within its environment. They use expertise for PvP, nothing currently exists for PvE other than better stats. Either the PvP gear stats have to lag behind PvE stats or there is a one way transfer from PvP to PvE. Would I like for my gear to be equally good for both paths, hell yeah. Do I think it is possible for the Devs to setup a system that allows this without giving an advantage to one path or the other? NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVoidStalker Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Maybe I'm just missing the obvious but I don't get why gear earned in PVP shouldn't be viable for PVE.. I -HATE- PVE with a seething passion Then you don't care at all and this post was pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Because raiders want to force you to raid with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 PVP gear is harder to get, you make less credits Stopped reading here and went to shop to get you a diaper and cleanex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Would I like for my gear to be equally good for both paths, hell yeah. Do I think it is possible for the Devs to setup a system that allows this without giving an advantage to one path or the other? NO. So, you are saying that if we make PVP gear and PVE gear the same exact gear, it would make it -harder- for them to balance the game? Do you grasp the basic concept of things being the same? If you get the same gear from grinding PVP as you get from doing raids it would be TWICE as easy to balance the game because you are removing HALF the gear you need to balance for. Simple math people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 IMO the bigger the gap the better! If i had a hand in it i would make pve gear worthless in pvp and pvp gear worthless in pve! Frankly the 2 playstles need to be completely separate! Other than "OMG PVPers are 3V1L" what is your reasoning for this? Because from what I've seen Bioware shares your option that people who PVP are somehow subhuman and refuse to even consider treating us the same as people who don't PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 So, you are saying that if we make PVP gear and PVE gear the same exact gear, it would make it -harder- for them to balance the game? Do you grasp the basic concept of things being the same? If you get the same gear from grinding PVP as you get from doing raids it would be TWICE as easy to balance the game because you are removing HALF the gear you need to balance for. Simple math people. Not really. People can grind pvp gear everyday. Dungeons have a lockout timer which prevents people from getting pve gear. Then raiders will whine that they have to pvp to get pve gear if the gears are the same. Then all sorts of QQ will happen. Even crafters will QQ. So basically, it is going to be harder to balance the game because this is a gear progression MMO. It revolves around the grind or time it takes for people to gear up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Its a very very stupid decision. They did a very good setup till now, PvP gear was quite less powrful than PvE gear (champion - columi had 10 end and 21 primary stat difference/piece), but it was still viable for PvE. Why oh why fix something that works like a charm... Not really. People can grind pvp gear everyday. Dungeons have a lockout timer which prevents people from getting pve gear. Then raiders will whine that they have to pvp to get pve gear if the gears are the same. Then all sorts of QQ will happen. Even crafters will QQ. So basically, it is going to be harder to balance the game because this is a gear progression MMO. It revolves around the grind or time it takes for people to gear up. What does it matter which way you gear up? Getting PvE gear was (is) faster than getting PvP gear. Edited March 8, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Not really. People can grind pvp gear everyday. Dungeons have a lockout timer which prevents people from getting pve gear. Then raiders will whine that they have to pvp to get pve gear if the gears are the same. Then all sorts of QQ will happen. Even crafters will QQ. So basically, it is going to be harder to balance the game because this is a gear progression MMO. It revolves around the grind or time it takes for people to gear up. Yes, but it takes *much* more time to grind PVP gear than it does to grind PVE gear. You go once a week and you do your raid. You have to PVP the ENTIRE week to get your gear. The PVP players are putting in magnitudes more effort and getting half the reward. If they do this I know I'm canceling and I know lots of other people will too. We are tired of being treated like we are second-class players! It's not fair to block us from content because we don't enjoy running around on planets and pushing buttons or killing mobs with a 10% chance to drop one of the fifteen stolen pass codes you need. People should be able to do what they enjoy because ENJOYMENT is the point of a GAME. I shouldn't need to grind dailies every day when I could do something I ENJOY instead. I don't pay people to do things I don't like doing. Bioware needs to learn this. Bioware needs to wake up and smell the reality that they are making the same mistakes WoW did. Edited March 8, 2012 by Coyotecalls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 So, you are saying that if we make PVP gear and PVE gear the same exact gear, it would make it -harder- for them to balance the game? Do you grasp the basic concept of things being the same? If you get the same gear from grinding PVP as you get from doing raids it would be TWICE as easy to balance the game because you are removing HALF the gear you need to balance for. Simple math people. Pve and pvp mechanics are vastly different. Having the exact same gear would require some crazy macinations for both to work. Pve gear is designed for groups to fight super powerful mobs with lots of hit points and damage output. PvP is entirely different. I got to be honest your statement makes me believe you are not very experienced with mmog pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 IF PvE gear is sub par to pvp that is acceptable, if not, then it is NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrienov Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 PvE players get PvE gear. PvP players get PvP gear. And whiners get nothing. Deal with it, do what you enjoy, and don't bother pissing on other people's day. Each their own, and to own should be earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briljin Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I am fine with them not wanting PvP gear to be as effective in PvE content, it is understandable. Yet this needs to work both ways, PvP gear needs to be clearly better in PvP than PvE gear. Right now once you reach a certain point, PvE gear wins out and that will need to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itukaaj Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Why? So carebears can make fun of you if you dare to give it a try. Plus all the feedback about nothing to do the devs are making gear time sinks-YAY! jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Pve and pvp mechanics are vastly different. Having the exact same gear would require some crazy macinations for both to work. Pve gear is designed for groups to fight super powerful mobs with lots of hit points and damage output. PvP is entirely different. I got to be honest your statement makes me believe you are not very experienced with mmog pvp. People keep saying that PVE gear is subpar to PVP gear well, guess what would fix that problem? Making them the same! This is just proving my point! If you just make the gear the same then people could enjoy BOTH aspects of the game. Why is this a hard concept to grasp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Why? So carebears can make fun of you if you dare to give it a try. Plus all the feedback about nothing to do the devs are making gear time sinks-YAY! jk And that time sink is exactly why my account has 13 days left on it. I AM NOT grinding gear twice for a character. No ******* way. This game isn't that important to me. I'm not running around doing stupid dailies which may or may not be bugged at any given day just so I can spend twice as long in PVP to get gear that is half as good. I don't enjoy dailies. I've played MMOs for YEARS and I am not doing that grind again. Either give me functional gear so I can raid with my friends from things I ENJOY doing or don't get my money. Simple laws of economics. Edited March 8, 2012 by Coyotecalls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveillere Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) It is the PEOPLE that make the game fun. Bioware seems to have forgotten this. TRUTH!!!! Never have I agreed more with a post in this forum \o/ you go brother Level 1-50 is a freaking single player game. I wan't to make alts but there's no way in hell that I'm gonna endure that again.. Edited March 8, 2012 by Reveillere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I wanna raid naked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I don't get why they're going out of their way to really make pvp gear not be viable to this degree. I think the current setup we have is pretty good. Sure champ gear isn't as good as columi for pve, or BM vs rakata...but you can get stuff done in it. You can join a raid wearing champ gear or something and do what you need to do. Overdoing expertise so the gear is useless outside a warzone is pretty stupid. That isn't the case with pve gear. You can walk into a WZ with good pve gear and do really well (probably a little too well in fact). I bet they won't be changing pve gear stats to "Strength increases your damage against npcs only and has no effect on players" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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