BW You're Going to Ruin Dark/Light Path Uniqueness

[Dawginole]

Part of MMO's is being able to show off things you have earned or things that make you unique among hundreds of players around you.

 

Things like limiting purple to lvl 50's and red crystals to Jedi going Dark separated them from other players.

 

The crystal color was something that really made the Dark/Light path chosen in the game unique. And identified that path to your fellow players. That's gone. There's no easily recognizable way to identify player path now.

 

When I played with other Rep players with Blue sabers or Red sabers or blaster bolts I immediately was able to recognize what they were doing in their story. That's gone. It's basically ruined now. Who cares if I have some Dark only boots? No one checks player gear in this game anyway because it's difficult to get to and the graphics are not super detailed anyway.

 

There was a lot of future possibility here where Gray Jedi or story line characters could have had Gray/Silver color crystals limited to neutral alignment, and keeping blue/green for Light and Red/Orange for Dark allowing your friends to "partake" in what you were doing in your story.

 

The reason this was changed is because everyone in this day and age wants everything. They don't want to make any choices that will limit them from other choices and the Dev team has given into this QQ'ing.

 

But that's what this whole game is about. The whole story line is about making choices and having to live with them. The class missions are centered around choices and the results are supposed to affect you, and part of that affect was the limitation to certain equipment including the color of your weapons.

 

It was a fantastic idea that made characters unique and added something one had to think about when making their Light/Dark choices throughout the story line that completely and utterly makes no difference now. There is absolutely nothing unique about having gone Dark or Light when this change goes into effect.

 

Total garbage move BW... This game needs some changes, but if you keep giving into every complaint of the moron cry babies on this forum you risk ruining the game for all the people that are enjoying it and aren't on the forums crying.

 

The whole Dark/Light scenario system is pointless now...you ruined it. Just remove it at this point.

 

UPDATE AS POSTED ON PAGE 6:

Too much of this thread is getting caught up on lore. The point of this thread is in game uniqueness and how D/L path was the only thing that was providing uniqueness to date.

 

The point is that this was the only thing that your D/L path really affected and was the only visually recognizable cue for other players.

 

They are going to now add in special abilities based on D/L as of 1.2. Which means now your only visual cue is if someone is watching you they maybe see you do a D/L based ability.

 

A major draw and function in MMO's is working hard toward gear that is difficult to obtain and showing it off. This is why people with Relics in FFXI stood around Juno or Aht Urghan. It's why WoW players stood around Iron Forge for hours in their elite gear. The equipment system in SWTOR totally prevents this because equips quality is mod based and not equip based except for PvP PvE gear. But that will now change with removable mods.

 

I am not a hardcore player. I fall somewhere between 50% or maybe 75% of the effort the hardcore player puts into an MMO. So I'm not saying any of this because I think I will have a bunch of unique equipment to show off. I won't.

 

But I do think there is something special in seeing other players though in all that gear and having that moment of awe in an MMO when you see the first player run by you in game in that elite armor or with that elite weapon and thinking, "Wow, I can't believe he actually got that."

 

That's impossible in this game and the only thing that made anyone different is now gone.

 

Everyone is a winner in SWTOR! Everyone come get your 1st place trophies! We have 2.5 million of them!

Edited March 8, 2012 by Dawginole

[terminova]

I play a bounty hunter, a non-Force using character who I'm taking LS, and I cannot put red crystals from quest reward blasters into my blasters without them telling me "you cannot use this" which is ridiculous. Why should a non-Force using class be forced out of using color crystals?

 

For that matter, why should a Sith or Jedi not be allowed to use traditional color crystals? They are still Sith or Jedi. Just because their actions are counter-intuitive doesn't make them any less what they are. A Sith, even if they are nice and merciful still draws on the corrupting power of the darkside of the Force. A Jedi, even if they do less than honorable/nice/good things still draws on the lightside of the Force. A Sith who tries to redeem themselves might continue to use a red bladed lightsaber to remind themselves of what the consequences of the darkside, and likewise a Dark Jedi might continue to use their blue bladed lightsaber to remind themselves of what they hate so much. Or simply out of familiarity.

[Terko_Koslah]

I totally agree with op.

[ConradLionhart]

Why should a non-Force using class be forced out of using color crystals?

 

For that matter, why should a Sith or Jedi not be allowed to use traditional color crystals?

 

Same reason why a non-Force using class cannot use lightsabers, or why a sith or jedi cannot use blasters. Restrictions for the sake of lore and game balance.

 

I now read that a bounty hunter will be able to use force lightning? Total immersion breaker.

[Dawginole]

I now read that a bounty hunter will be able to use force lightning? Total immersion breaker.

 

I'm just angry, RP servers are committing suicide.

[Jaymanus]

I play a bounty hunter, a non-Force using character who I'm taking LS, and I cannot put red crystals from quest reward blasters into my blasters without them telling me "you cannot use this" which is ridiculous. Why should a non-Force using class be forced out of using color crystals?

 

For that matter, why should a Sith or Jedi not be allowed to use traditional color crystals? They are still Sith or Jedi. Just because their actions are counter-intuitive doesn't make them any less what they are. A Sith, even if they are nice and merciful still draws on the corrupting power of the darkside of the Force. A Jedi, even if they do less than honorable/nice/good things still draws on the lightside of the Force. A Sith who tries to redeem themselves might continue to use a red bladed lightsaber to remind themselves of what the consequences of the darkside, and likewise a Dark Jedi might continue to use their blue bladed lightsaber to remind themselves of what they hate so much. Or simply out of familiarity.

 

I think the point of the thread is more that in removing LS/DS restrictions they are making the LS/DS choice kind of pointless. Why have the choice in the game if is doesn't really affect anything?

 

I agree with you that people should have the choice to use what colors they want, but perhaps they should implement other ways to show you DS/LS choice.

 

P.S I realize that DS/LS affects your story (sort of) and there is Sith corruption (but nothing for LS) but something more would be nice.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Jaymanus

[ConradLionhart]

I'm just angry, RP servers are committing suicide.

 

I don't understand why they are doing this. Why not make the Bounty Hunter throw an electric net if you want them to have some lightning damage?

[Wolfeisberg]

Acting as devils advocate, I would say that it is 'hurting' people in some way. When you have nothing to make unique, you lose attachment to your character. People like to show off the hard work they have done, when everyone gets everything , everyone is the same and that destroys peoples sense of being unique therefor hurting their gaming experience.

 

It was ruining my game experience being a Light Side Sith trying to hide my light side, but having this Blue/Green Light Saber advertising that I was a Light Side Sith.

 

Also, it was far from unique anyways, I saw a crap ton of light side characters running around on Empire, and vice versa on Rep side.

[Rilauven]

You know that the color crystal vendor will only exist from 1.2 to 1.3 right? Then it goes away forever and you'll have to hunt all over the galaxy for the materials and schematics you need to make them.

[Fallensbane]

I don't understand why they are doing this. Why not make the Bounty Hunter throw an electric net if you want them to have some lightning damage?

 

It allows a character to have force sensitivity without being a jedi. There are tons of characters who are not jedi but were able to use some force powers. Besides. You HAVE to have your companion out and you have to burn of your heroic ability to use those legacy powers. Yo udo realize that means you can use force lightning on a bounty hunter a max of every 20 minutes at the most right? It won't be used in operations, it won't be used in PVP. Only time it will ever be used is if you have a companion out. Move along.

[Dawginole]

You know that the color crystal vendor will only exist from 1.2 to 1.3 right? Then it goes away forever and you'll have to hunt all over the galaxy for the materials and schematics you need to make them.

 

I'm not talking about crystals being available for purchase. Although that is a different discussion as it hurts Artifice crafters. I'm talking about the fact that D/L Side restrictions are being permanently removed from color crystals.

 

And the color of your weapon was the only unique identifier to your story line choices. And it destroys the lore. No light side character in the SW cannon ever uses a red saber, and no dark side character ever used a green/blue crystal.

 

Every other piece of gear in the game generally has a light side and dark side equivalent. So the weapon color was the only real consequence of the choices you made in the story.

 

If this is the case, then no matter which side you choice, the affects of the choices are now linear. So they should just remove the choices from the entire game and just tell you what to say.

[Wolfeisberg]

I'm not talking about crystals being available for purchase. Although that is a different discussion as it hurts Artifice crafters. I'm talking about the fact that D/L Side restrictions are being permanently removed from color crystals.

 

And the color of your weapon was the only unique identifier to your story line choices. And it destroys the lore. No light side character in the SW cannon ever uses a red saber, and no dark side character ever used a green/blue crystal.

 

Every other piece of gear in the game generally has a light side and dark side equivalent. So the weapon color was the only real consequence of the choices you made in the story.

 

If this is the case, then no matter which side you choice, the affects of the choices are now linear. So they should just remove the choices from the entire game and just tell you what to say.

 

 

haha, you are so wrong on it breaking lore. Just two examples of many, and there are many, Exar Kun, you know, the Dark Lord, yeah he used a double bladed Blue saber when he was the Dark Lord of the Sith. Anakin Skywalker when he was clearly dark side used a blue light saber as well.

 

There is zero in the Lore that restricts colors based on DS/LS allignment. This change actually brings it back in line to the lore, the restrictions took it out of the lore.

[Toweleeeie]

They should of had alternate companions. Like the last companion you get is decided by alignment. Just one extra companion per class isnt asking to much.

 

Alignment should also effect ability animations or colors.

 

Add more alignment restricted gear not just relics.

 

Being able to twist your force user companions to one side or the other.

 

Right now at end game color crystal restriction dont even matter bc we are all using dropped lightsabers with 41+ stats on them.

[ConradLionhart]

It allows a character to have force sensitivity without being a jedi. There are tons of characters who are not jedi but were able to use some force powers. Besides. You HAVE to have your companion out and you have to burn of your heroic ability to use those legacy powers. Yo udo realize that means you can use force lightning on a bounty hunter a max of every 20 minutes at the most right? It won't be used in operations, it won't be used in PVP. Only time it will ever be used is if you have a companion out. Move along.

 

What the, you think you can just dismiss me the way you dismiss your companion?

 

How does your explanation make it any better? It's like saying Jedis can only use blasters with their companions out every 20 mins.

 

If what you say is true, if there are characters that can use force lightning without training, then how come there are NONE in the cutscenes that I've seen? How come there is no bountry hunter, or storm trooper using that? Keep in mind that I am only level 24, but I'm almost sure there are none in the entire MMO.

 

Immersion breaker is immersion breaker. It is very strange, that for a company that prides itself with lore and story, they now introduce something that will damage it.

[Ledra]

It allows a character to have force sensitivity without being a jedi. There are tons of characters who are not jedi but were able to use some force powers. Besides. You HAVE to have your companion out and you have to burn of your heroic ability to use those legacy powers. Yo udo realize that means you can use force lightning on a bounty hunter a max of every 20 minutes at the most right? It won't be used in operations, it won't be used in PVP. Only time it will ever be used is if you have a companion out. Move along.

 

Yes indeed. Well said, can be used when you are soloing and when you use your 20 min companion CD. Bioware calls that a 'Heroic Moment' where you can draw on powers you previously couldnt, for example a BH with Lightning. Since the legacy system is also a family tree, if your mother was a sorceress for example, you awake that dormant power of yours and use force lightning, yet again during your 'Heroic Moment' which is on a rather long CD, when you are soloing and noone is forcing you to use the ability.

I think its a really cool idea that adds flavour to your solo content, and other parts of the legacy that just as Daniel Erickson stated you can tailior your leveling experience. I am really looking forward to it.

 

But to be clear. Solo content, heroic moment, long CD. ANd for the love of god use your free will and don't use it if you dont want to.

[Suzsi]

I'm just angry, RP servers are committing suicide.

 

Are you serious?? This is great for RP!

 

There are a lot of force sensitives out there who don't follow the path of the Jedi. A proper RPer will know when and how to use this to reflect that. It opens a whole world of new game mechanics to RPers just by doing this. It's great

[Vecke]

Part of MMO's is being able to show off things you have earned or things that make you unique among hundreds of players around you.

 

Things like limiting purple to lvl 50's and red crystals to Jedi going Dark separated them from other players.

 

The crystal color was something that really made the Dark/Light path chosen in the game unique. And identified that path to your fellow players. That's gone. There's no easily recognizable way to identify player path now.

 

When I played with other Rep players with Blue sabers or Red sabers or blaster bolts I immediately was able to recognize what they were doing in their story. That's gone. It's basically ruined now. Who cares if I have some Dark only boots? No one checks player gear in this game anyway because it's difficult to get to and the graphics are not super detailed anyway.

 

There was a lot of future possibility here where Gray Jedi or story line characters could have had Gray/Silver color crystals limited to neutral alignment, and keeping blue/green for Light and Red/Orange for Dark allowing your friends to "partake" in what you were doing in your story.

 

The reason this was changed is because everyone in this day and age wants everything. They don't want to make any choices that will limit them from other choices and the Dev team has given into this QQ'ing.

 

But that's what this whole game is about. The whole story line is about making choices and having to live with them. The class missions are centered around choices and the results are supposed to affect you, and part of that affect was the limitation to certain equipment including the color of your weapons.

 

It was a fantastic idea that made characters unique and added something one had to think about when making their Light/Dark choices throughout the story line that completely and utterly makes no difference now. There is absolutely nothing unique about having gone Dark or Light when this change goes into effect.

 

Total garbage move BW... This game needs some changes, but if you keep giving into every complaint of the moron cry babies on this forum you risk ruining the game for all the people that are enjoying it and aren't on the forums crying.

 

The whole Dark/Light scenario system is pointless now...you ruined it. Just remove it at this point.

 

I agree with the sentiment of this post. LS/DS should absolutely have more meaning.

 

I completely disagree with the specifics.

 

Color crystals was a horrible choice for implementing meaning to the LS/DS mechanic. There's absolutely no reason my smuggler should be limited to a green blaster crystal. Han Solo never shot a green bolt in any Star Wars movie ever.

 

More importantly, this mechanic makes it literally impossible for hundreds of players to play a Sith with a red lightsaber. That's just silly, IMO. A Sith should always have the choice to use a red saber, no matter what his alignment. To prevent that goes against a very iconic element of Star Wars.

 

I'm not saying they should have to use red, but to absolutely prevent them goes against every piece of Star Wars lore in the movies and the EU. There were plenty of Sith that didn't use red sabers, but show me one situation - ever - where a Sith (no matter what his alignment was) wasn't allowed to use a red saber.

 

They do need to give it meaning, but color crystals was a terrible choice. I would rather see certain skills be unlocked via a third tab that are exclusive to your alignment.

[terminova]

I'm not talking about crystals being available for purchase. Although that is a different discussion as it hurts Artifice crafters. I'm talking about the fact that D/L Side restrictions are being permanently removed from color crystals.

 

And the color of your weapon was the only unique identifier to your story line choices. And it destroys the lore. No light side character in the SW cannon ever uses a red saber, and no dark side character ever used a green/blue crystal.

 

Every other piece of gear in the game generally has a light side and dark side equivalent. So the weapon color was the only real consequence of the choices you made in the story.

 

If this is the case, then no matter which side you choice, the affects of the choices are now linear. So they should just remove the choices from the entire game and just tell you what to say.

 

The lightsaber colors are simply a matter of tradition not something that is required, and there is no lore to back up who can and who cannot use what. Also, as a point of refutation: Exar Kun used a double bladed lightsaber that used blue focus crystals.

[terminova]

Same reason why a non-Force using class cannot use lightsabers, or why a sith or jedi cannot use blasters. Restrictions for the sake of lore and game balance.

 

You mean the lore where Han Solo used Luke's lightsaber to cut open a Taun Taun or where General Grievous was a skilled practitioner of lightsaber combat? Force users can use blasters in the lore, they just don't have to because they have lightsabers. Did you even watch a New Hope?

 

I now read that a bounty hunter will be able to use force lightning? Total immersion breaker.

 

It's tied to Legacy, shares a CD with Heroic Moment and is only usable with a companion out.

[Toweleeeie]

The lightsaber colors are simply a matter of tradition not something that is required, and there is no lore to back up who can and who cannot use what. Also, as a point of refutation: Exar Kun used a double bladed lightsaber that used blue focus crystals.

 

On top of that GL said the reason Sith use red is bc they couldnt get their hands on natural crystals bc the Jedi controlled those worlds. So Sith had no choice but to make their on synthetic crystals which involves a forge and meditation, which results in a red crystal bc they use the darkside.

 

In RotJ Luke's green crystal was synthetic bc the Sith controlled the galaxy but Luke is lightside so he got a green crystal.

[Sky_walkerPL]

Yea, I also hate an idea of Sith army running with blue lightsabers in the fleet.

 

but keep in mind that TOR is placed in pre-ruusan period which strictly allows everyone to use any saber color they want. It's the lore that made it. After the ruusan battles it's not possible anymore and from now on the split between light and dark side colors begins.

 

But what I hate most is an idea of loads of Sith Purebloods in the republic - cause that's what Legacy will allow. Making a Jedi Knight Sith Pureblood.

[Silthir]

If what you say is true, if there are characters that can use force lightning without training, then how come there are NONE in the cutscenes that I've seen? How come there is no bountry hunter, or storm trooper using that? Keep in mind that I am only level 24, but I'm almost sure there are none in the entire MMO.

 

For one thing you're in the wrong era... Storm Troopers were mostly clones for a while and while there are Force Sensitive clones, Jango Fett was not descended from a line of Jedi nor Sith. Your "family tree" was a list of who is who and a child of a Force User would be able to access dormant powers every so often.

[Dawginole]

Stop saying Exar Kun. I said "in the cannon of Star Wars". Please tell me you people know what the cannon of Star Wars is? The cannon is the OT and NT and does not include the Expanded Universe. The EU is not part of the cannon because when GL says "this is what's what" that's it because it's his universe. His universe is the OT/NT and he generally stays out of the EU, but the EU is not cannon. Period.

[terminova]

Stop saying Exar Kun. I said "in the cannon of Star Wars". Please tell me you people know what the cannon of Star Wars is? The cannon is the OT and NT and does not include the Expanded Universe. The EU is not part of the cannon because when GL says "this is what's what" that's it because it's his universe. His universe is the OT/NT and he generally stays out of the EU, but the EU is not cannon. Period.

 

The movies are G cannon, EU is C cannon, but it's still cannon. Also, GL has referenced EU cannon in his movies.

Edited March 6, 2012 by terminova

[Veimi]

Stop saying Exar Kun. I said "in the cannon of Star Wars". Please tell me you people know what the cannon of Star Wars is? The cannon is the OT and NT and does not include the Expanded Universe. The EU is not part of the cannon because when GL says "this is what's what" that's it because it's his universe. His universe is the OT/NT and he generally stays out of the EU, but the EU is not cannon. Period.

 

Stop refusing to believe the facts. Anakin Skywalker, episode 3. Enough cannon? He uses bluebladed lightsaber as a sith. He would've had time to switch sabers if he wanted which clearly indicates that blue saber was his choice.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Veimi