This is troubling news about valor...

[Shredbull]

Look at all the elitists qqing that the game is finally balancing out. God I'm enjoying this so much

[Bantua]

PVP is fun...but it should be competitive..ya its a grind to people who are competitive in nature..and want to be better than the next guy...And who shouldnt want to be better?

[Noollig]

...champion geared people dont have a hard time with battlemaster geared people, if at all, end of story. Everyone is under the impression that battlemasters have a huge gear advantage and thats the sole reason for them being able to beat you. This is a fallacy, and it's becoming a redundant excuse.

 

If you think the gear doesn't make a difference, what does it matter to you? The new gear set will still require people to put the time in just to get the gear. Better players will win more often and will still get the gear faster. Why are you upset?

 

Is it that you don't like that the newer 50s will be able to get the gear in less time than you did? This is just something that happens in MMOs. New gear sets come out the old gear becomes easier to get. The new gear isn't getting easier to get, you and the new guys will have the same grind to get that tier.

[Riddul]

I can appreciate those people that threw themselves into the BM grind being irritated. It's annoying to struggle for something and then see playing field leveled right as you got it.

 

But really, what people are complaining about is becoming used to a flawed, asinine system and then experiencing a switch to a more sensical one. You're not mad because switching valor from an actual gearing threshold to a prestige rank is a bad idea, because it isn't. You're mad because it makes you feel like you wasted your time grinding valor.

 

Well, you didn't. I mean, you did; we're all here just playing a stupid game. But what you did was get your Battlemaster gear. Maybe you did it with friends, maybe you did it alone, maybe you sat your Marauder in a corner of the Empire Base on Ilum spamming your Ops-wide buff to stay in combat 24/7 but not participating because you get 2 fps.

 

See, however you got to BM and kitted out your dude in full 140 gear, you had options. Hell, you could half-*** your dailies and grind Ilum with minimal effort. Battlemaster isn't a test of skill, or teamwork, it's a mindless period of time you spend achieving a goal that YOU DECIDED was prestigious. These new BMs, the ones that will have to do ranked pvp to get their gear, they will be working at it.

 

So no, they're not giving away wellfare pvp gear. Honestly, they should make it easier to get centurion gear, because as big of a willy you feel like you have giving fresh 50s mushroom stamps to the tune of 7k a hit, it's not fun for most of the player base. BM gear should actually be HARD to get, not just take a long time to get. Which is what they're doing. Stop complaining just because you convinced yourselves (while playing it?) that a poorly designed pvp system at launch was somehow ideal, and that changes for the better shouldn't happen.

[swooshien]

i only need valor rank 60? damnit! i just hit 90!

[Noollig]

I can appreciate those people that threw themselves into the BM grind being irritated. It's annoying to struggle for something and then see playing field leveled right as you got it.

 

But really, what people are complaining about is becoming used to a flawed, asinine system and then experiencing a switch to a more sensical one. You're not mad because switching valor from an actual gearing threshold to a prestige rank is a bad idea, because it isn't. You're mad because it makes you feel like you wasted your time grinding valor.

 

Well, you didn't. I mean, you did; we're all here just playing a stupid game. But what you did was get your Battlemaster gear. Maybe you did it with friends, maybe you did it alone, maybe you sat your Marauder in a corner of the Empire Base on Ilum spamming your Ops-wide buff to stay in combat 24/7 but not participating because you get 2 fps.

 

See, however you got to BM and kitted out your dude in full 140 gear, you had options. Hell, you could half-*** your dailies and grind Ilum with minimal effort. Battlemaster isn't a test of skill, or teamwork, it's a mindless period of time you spend achieving a goal that YOU DECIDED was prestigious. These new BMs, the ones that will have to do ranked pvp to get their gear, they will be working at it.

 

So no, they're not giving away wellfare pvp gear. Honestly, they should make it easier to get centurion gear, because as big of a willy you feel like you have giving fresh 50s mushroom stamps to the tune of 7k a hit, it's not fun for most of the player base. BM gear should actually be HARD to get, not just take a long time to get. Which is what they're doing. Stop complaining just because you convinced yourselves (while playing it?) that a poorly designed pvp system at launch was somehow ideal, and that changes for the better shouldn't happen.

 

Well said. I think you are correct that most of the hurt feelings are caused by the move from a terrible rewards system, into a system that should have been implemented at launch.

[Swiftarts]

How do you tell the skilled PvPers from the noobs? Skilled PvPers welcome PvP on equal gearing levels. Noobs need a gear advantage.

 

You want to show off your efforts for PvPing all the time? Cool! Have some AESTHETIC stuff. That's your bragging right. Oh, you want to brag about how good you are in PvP? Excellent! There's no better environment to showcase your skills than an environment in which everyone has the same gear.

 

Everyone who hates this change relies on their gear for their skill. If this change upsets you, then I'm glad. Go play another game where you can wave your gear sets in the air and get 5 kills instantly. I'll be here and anywhere else where gear isn't an emphasis for PvP.

[Graelkat]

I like this game and like Bioware generally. bioware is apparently attempting to balance things more, because right now virtually every pvp match on my server is the "Triumph of the Unemployed" who have had plenty of time to grind gear. I'm not sure the new system will actually achieve any greater balance, in part because the favored faction on any server will now be able to gear up even faster than it could previously, while the minority faction will fall further and further behind in relative terms.

 

So, on my servers and perhaps others, those who can win WZs only in the unlikely event that they pop a Huttball against their own side, will continue to be radically overwhelmed by the majority -- who is winning every match and gaining gear and a radically faster pace. And this spiral may even result in fewer minority side players, as they realize the futility and leave.

[Rauthadog]

Well said. I think you are correct that most of the hurt feelings are caused by the move from a terrible rewards system, into a system that should have been implemented at launch.

 

The problem I have with it is these are the exact same players that were complaining about the system when they were grinding it out. Now that BW has listened and made it a bit easier they are complaining simply because they already have their "stuff" and don't care if anyone else does. Plus if you make it too easy they can't start countless threads blaming the undergeared scrub 50's on their team for all their losses.

[Draeb]

Why is this troubling?

 

Because you won't be rolfpawning people and EVERYONE will have the opportunity to the WAR Hero gear and people's talent will shine more than their gear.

 

This is a great way to effectively cancel out the valor farming that occurred and was never fixed.

 

I PVP for fun. The stuff that comes with it is icing on the cake.

 

Who knows what the Hero gear will look like or stat like and there is talk of being able to fit orange gear with pvp stuff.

 

PVP because it is fun. Grinding sounds like work.

 

 

 

The highlighted part is a very valid point. I didn't really think of it that way. Props to you man.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Draeb

[mSum]

It's basically a slap in the face for your time investment. I probably won't be on much PvPing till 1.2 now since the War Hero gear grind cannot start until then, I have nothing to do with BM gear and useless valor.

 

You just described how all gear works in every MMO. When new content and gear is released the old "top tier" isn't top anymore.

 

By your logic you shouldn't do anything until the game is done and development has stopped. Then it will be "worth" getting the top tier.

[Rauthadog]

because right now virtually every pvp match on my server is the "Triumph of the Unemployed" who have had plenty of time to grind gear.

 

This in my opinion is the reason why there is no need to segregate PVP from PVE gear and the 2 player pools themselves. There is an automatic PVP advantage for players that PVP alot. I'll let everyone in on a little secret, were better at it because we do it all the time. We know our rotations, we see the environment all around us by circling the camera , our hands don't sweat in battle anymore , and we don't forget our key bindings even with 5 people wailing on us when we have the Huttball and the clock is ticking down. There is no need to further reward us with a numerical advantage over our PVE counterparts should they decide to join a warzone or I decide to jump them in Open world PVP. The rewards are what are drawing in the people that shouldn't be there in the 1st place.

[AAmedeo]

Okay, so I have some champ gear and some centurion, (and a piece of Tionese and a piece of Columi). My Valor is 34. Is there any reason to continue PvPing? (other than fun, which it has been, but getting tried now)

[Nicain]

How do you tell the skilled PvPers from the noobs? Skilled PvPers welcome PvP on equal gearing levels. Noobs need a gear advantage.

 

You want to show off your efforts for PvPing all the time? Cool! Have some AESTHETIC stuff. That's your bragging right. Oh, you want to brag about how good you are in PvP? Excellent! There's no better environment to showcase your skills than an environment in which everyone has the same gear.

 

Everyone who hates this change relies on their gear for their skill. If this change upsets you, then I'm glad. Go play another game where you can wave your gear sets in the air and get 5 kills instantly. I'll be here and anywhere else where gear isn't an emphasis for PvP.

 

This is what a post looks like from someone who never got his BM gear, will never get his BM gear, but wants to fight on the same level as those who put the time in to get the BM gear.

 

Anyone who plays the game more than him is a noob, anyone who's better than him is a noob and anyone who doesn't agree with him is a noob.

 

Everyone who DIDN't put the time in wants the Free gear, everyone who did put the time in, doesn't understand the 'i want something for nothing' concept.

 

Oh the humanity....

[Noollig]

This is what a post looks like from someone who never got his BM gear, will never get his BM gear, but wants to fight on the same level as those who put the time in to get the BM gear.

 

Anyone who plays the game more than him is a noob, anyone who's better than him is a noob and anyone who doesn't agree with him is a noob.

 

Everyone who DIDN't put the time in wants the Free gear, everyone who did put the time in, doesn't understand the 'i want something for nothing' concept.

 

Oh the humanity....

 

The new guys will have to do the same thing you will have to do for their gear. Nobody is getting something for nothing.

[Gnugthreeonefive]

So my full pvp group kicks butt 90% of the time and the guy that loses 90% of the time can have the same gear as me just by putting in 12 hours a day. Not fair at all.

That's funny, it sounds just like earnings irl. I find it quite fair that people can earn the same as me just by putting in a lot more work. Skill pays.

[Ahhmyface]

All these personal attacks are from people who can't form a coherent argument.. how droll... stop acting like dunderheads. We get it you like the welfare gear system.

 

I like the majority of PvP changes too, but what they are doing with valor is a total SLAP IN THE FACE to any serious player pre-1.2

 

No, killtrading ruined any meaning to valor months ago.

[skunksir]

this game has become so easy to obtain valour why shouldnt their be any gear progression, u have plenty of oportunities to raise your valour rank all way to 50 ( wasnt that the whole point in splitting 50s from lower char, to stop the lower getting rolled? and with tokens in every bag why shouldnt u be forced to spend time earning your gear, most peeps that pvp hit 40+ valour ranks before they hit 50 making the last part of BM grind very easy,

 

also so many arguments about rakata gear being = to BM gear, if pvp wont be based on gear how will WZ become fair? as stats on pvp gear are considerable lower, surely kitting out in pve gear will give u an advantage? or is all stats goin to be Standard for all classes?

 

the idea about MMO is to work for your gear, if your pve'r or pvp'r, you strive to obtain teh best gear for your char. i h8 pve (social 1) so is it fair that caus my pvp gear has such lower stats to pve gear, i should b excluded from HM/raids etc.? as their are better geared pve'r out there

 

wouldnt the best option b to just implement warzones based on valour ranks themselves? again its so easy to gain valour, people would advance thro the ranks with gear comparable to others in wz. again making those pve'r work for their pvp gear, rather than QQ about unfairness of expertise..

 

in the end u play the game how u want to .. but peeps shouldnt qq about getting rolled, no1 told u to play pve all time, caus if u played pvp u'd c gear is far 2 easily gained. so easy that at valour 63 i have completed all companions in champion gear, but still only have 3 pieces BM< gear on my char, if u cant earn it, then u dont deserve it. same as i dont deserve rakata set.

[Swiftarts]

This is what a post looks like from someone who never got his BM gear, will never get his BM gear, but wants to fight on the same level as those who put the time in to get the BM gear.

 

Anyone who plays the game more than him is a noob, anyone who's better than him is a noob and anyone who doesn't agree with him is a noob.

 

Everyone who DIDN't put the time in wants the Free gear, everyone who did put the time in, doesn't understand the 'i want something for nothing' concept.

 

Oh the humanity....

 

http://i.imgur.com/szDko.png

 

Sorry. Wrong.

[TetraCleric]

This is what a post looks like from someone who never got his BM gear, will never get his BM gear, but wants to fight on the same level as those who put the time in to get the BM gear.

 

Anyone who plays the game more than him is a noob, anyone who's better than him is a noob and anyone who doesn't agree with him is a noob.

 

Everyone who DIDN't put the time in wants the Free gear, everyone who did put the time in, doesn't understand the 'i want something for nothing' concept.

 

Oh the humanity....

 

Ironic.

[DoppaE]

It is a bit of a slap in the face for those of us who did the work to get to BM. It was a grind that made me think about quitting a few times before I got there. But overall, I do understand what they're doing.

 

they have to balance the playing field and it was def. unbalanced.

[Seriasx]

Playing 3-4x more often than I do should be more than enough for you to beat me, why add a gear crutch to the mix?

[Polebreaker]

You just described how all gear works in every MMO. When new content and gear is released the old "top tier" isn't top anymore.

 

By your logic you shouldn't do anything until the game is done and development has stopped. Then it will be "worth" getting the top tier.

 

But most MMO's dont make it worthless just over 2 months after release. It really is a slap in the face to those who put in the time to gain valour. And stop with the OMG ILUM EXPLOITERS thing, the handful that did that cancelled their subs after the first month. The handful that remained and actually EARNED their Battlemaster titles by putting in the time are being shat upon. And yes, I said earned, because this is an MMOG, and time invested = rewards. It's not call of duty.

 

There are two reasons for doing warzones. The same two reasons which drive every aspect of an MMO:

 

1: Fun

2: Progression

 

For some, those aspects are completely seperate and they can enjoy one without the other. For most however, those aspects are related to a greater or lesser degree. We now know that the 'progression' aspect in PVP has been all but removed for most people.

 

Unless you're a newish Battlemaster with gear slots to upgrade, close to hitting Battlemaster, or a brand new 50 not in full Champion gear yet, there is no progression in PVP until 1.2 launches. Unless you're getting gear upgrades or can get to BM teir in time, any valour you get is worthless until they get round to releasing 1.2 in March, sorry, April, late April, maybe...

 

For me, the 'fun' of the same three warzones over and over isn't enough in itself. In the same was as progression alone wouldn't be enough if it wasn't fun, warzones without progression isn't gonna cut it for me. I'll potter around on my alts for a bit, bringing my 8th and final character above L20. I'll max out missions and gathering on the last few alts who haven't already maxed them (all professions maxed already). I'll build up stocks of rarer materials for the initla rush when they finally add to crafting (I scaled back working the GTN for profit once I hit 10mil).

 

PVP was the only true endzone grind in the game. Ops and FPs just struck me as a pure fapfapfapfap-end: You have won/lost. Minimal tactics, few alternatives to the traditional simplified tank'n'spank. I don't want to quit, but I'm left wondering what it can fill my time with now

 

This is very well said, thank you for that.

[TetraCleric]

But most MMO's dont make it worthless just over 2 months after release. It really is a slap in the face to those who put in the time to gain valour. And stop with the OMG ILUM EXPLOITERS thing, the handful that did that cancelled their subs after the first month. The handful that remained and actually EARNED their Battlemaster titles by putting in the time are being shat upon. And yes, I said earned, because this is an MMOG, and time invested = rewards. It's not call of duty.

 

 

 

This is very well said, thank you for that.

 

 

 

Valor is exactly the same as a Call of Duty rank lmao. They are both time invested achievements, each unlocking new gear/items as you reach higher rank. But they are independent of skill because they require none to advance.

 

Who cares that you took the time to grind out warzones so you could hit BM faster?

[Draeb]

No, killtrading ruined any meaning to valor months ago.

 

 

 

Killtrading killed a lot of the pvping now. Because of it, people are getting geared faster than those who do it the honest way.