hamerdin Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 so ive literally spent my entire lunch hour reading this thread....to say the least its insane...i only read it for my brother who was doing absolutely terrible in pvp with burst damage...granted he is brand new lvl 50...but never the less i am convinced that running a rage specced jugg is like using an arcane mage..mash a couple of buttons for your "critted smash" and thats it? i think that playing vengeance sounds like a lot more fun and still completely viable..(not making fun of rage spec ofcourse) but just looking at survivablity keeping the ball keeping your turret. whatever the case may be..who cares who has the best dps at the end of the fight if you win!! so thanks everyone for all the info! see you in game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 interesting...I level both, and I can solo elites and champs on my Jugg too. I distinctly remember one champ that I walked away from with 95% health. he was the same level as me, roughly 38 or 39 iirc. On my Jugg. no offense, but your information is contrived at best. Not throwing away your personal experience, but all this misinformation exists because people continually express their OPINION as FACT...which it is NOT. That's why i commented about your list. It has ZERO impact on overall damage because it is SUBJECTIVE. I will respect your opinion, but I will not let you tout it as fact. here's a fact. Opinions is largely influenced by far too many mis-representational factors to consider it relevant in parsing actual data. how about that accessory? Until we have combat logs, its all subjective. However, playing both extensively, I don't think there's any question about the fact that dps juggernaut can't compete with marauder in both damage output and survivability. IF that is the case, which I believe it is, then the balance is broken, and needs to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locustone Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) At this point, all the spamming about bad jugg DPS is purely anecdotal. And I dare you to prove otherwise, because im RIGHT about that. And I have put the challenge up time and time again to have people show the data they have that backs up their statements. For you benefit, I will find the timed tests here on the forums. But that's not my job It's not my fault the general populace is ignorant. and for some reason they prefer to stay that way. Remember, YOU don't set the standard. Bio does. so your statement contradicts the dev's, which means YOU are the one that needs to prove them wrong. Listen I am with you on the idea that nobody knows for sure until we have meters, but it becomes very obvious that in a timed test (PvE) in a one vs. one fight like council--and if you have multiple equally geared toons to test with--that certain classes are underpowered and do way less dps. All I can say is test it yourself. I don't expect you to beleive me or anyone else, we could be inflating the truth for all you know. I am a firm beleiver in "trusting, but verifying" so I don't blame your skeptisism. If you are a dps class that is equally geared to other dps classes then you should be finishing the fight with a 5% variation--according to BW. That is, assuming your rotation and skill is there. The fact that BW chose to hide the facts from the players is highly suspicious and YOU should be questioning that in the same way you question fellow players. There is a reason they don't want everyone to see what they are seeing, hence the "balancing" in 1.2. If there isn't a class balance problem and nobody knows the facts, and nobody really knows what they are talking about right now then why are they balancing? Don't fool yourself they intentionally left combat logs off at the onset of the game and are intentionally delaying the implementation of one until they get the balancing under control. It is naive to think they put out a finished product last December. That said, I respect your opinion, but I know what my experience has been and what my opinion is so I expect the same respect--not beleif. Edited March 13, 2012 by Locustone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Until we have combat logs, its all subjective. However, playing both extensively, I don't think there's any question about the fact that dps juggernaut can't compete with marauder in both damage output and survivability. IF that is the case, which I believe it is, then the balance is broken, and needs to be fixed. I can live with that. I may disagree, but we'll probably eventually find out, at which point you can tease the heck out of me if your right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Listen I am with you on the idea that nobody knows for sure until we have meters, but it becomes very obvious that in a timed test (PvE) in a one vs. one fight like council--and if you have multiple equally geared toons to test with--that certain classes are underpowered and do way less dps. All I can say is test it yourself. I don't expect you to beleive me or anyone else, we could be inflating the truth for all you know. I am a firm beleiver in "trusting, but verifying" so I don't blame your skeptisism. If you are a dps class that is equally geared to other dps classes then you should be finishing the fight with a 5% variation--according to BW. That is, assuming your rotation and skill is there. The fact that BW chose to hide the facts from the players is highly suspicious and YOU should be questioning that in the same way you question fellow players. There is a reason they don't want everyone to see what they are seeing, hence the "balancing" in 1.2. If there isn't a class balance problem and nobody knows the facts, and nobody really knows what they are talking about right now then why are they balancing? Don't fool yourself they intentionally left combat logs off at the onset of the game and are intentionally delaying the implementation of one until they get the balancing under control. It is naive to think they put out a finished product last December. That said, I respect your opinion, but I know what my experience has been and what my opinion is so I expect the same respect--not beleif. fair enough. I won't argue that.We may even be on the same boat, but different experiences. And I've stated before that I think they need polishing, but I personally don't believe that their damage is so far under the other classes that we can classify it as broke. But that is my opinion. It's not that I trust Bio completely per se, but in all honesty, I've played MMO's where there wasn't a damage meter, or any way to determine a class damage except via those little tests you can do with a healer and a buddy or two. and the tests I read (not all inclusive mind you) show Juggs at a decent place. Two example I can remember were one where the group (regular players) timed damage in a champ fight with a jug, a sorc, an operative, and something else (ill have to find it for you) the only one that outpaced the jugg enough to warrant a look was the sorc. the Op was low enough that i wondered about his rotation (hut that's assuming that his DPS "should" be high. don't know myself) The other one may have been in this thread (ill ahve to find it...been reading to many threads lately about Jugg DPS) where a jugg regularly played with his mauarder in council. on two different fights, they came in dead even the first one, and the second one the maurader beat the jugg by about 3 seconds or so. Ill try to find those links for you. I think I just get worn out with how many people just spam the negative opinions without knowing for sure. While i wil not argue anecdotal experience, in all honesty I rarely see a test where the jugg finishes in a horrible spot. the ones I've seen (where their trying to push the DPS to rank it), show juggs doing well. But 1.2 is close enough that we will see Bio's response to the Jugg fixing. I'll bet you a quarter that it's mostly in the immortal tree. but ill probably have to mail that quarter over if i lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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