SeloDaoC Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Im not really a fan of the HM mode and NM mode that have been added in later mmos and another bad mmo introduced First you have to grind it for normal gearThen you have to grind it in hardmode for the second tier gearThen you have to grind it a third time for the third tier gear Its still the same instance, the only differance beeing the mobs having more health. If this will be the norm for newer mmos, instead of adding more instances to choose between, then its not a good thing for the genre :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithIntraining Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Info directly from the guild summit, there will be new added mechanics to bosses on the harder difficulty modes, and not just health increases. Edited March 6, 2012 by SithIntraining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deirhese Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 They announced in the guild summit that they would add new mechanics to the harder modes for future operations. Assuming the 1.2 operation (explosive conflict) will have it perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avigatorx Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Its about more than just mechanics, its about giving raiders a feeling that they are able to unlock new content that they wouldn't be able to otherwise. Raiding isnt only about farming phat loot, it is about a sense of accomplishment. The satisfaction you get from coordinating a large force (well, not so large anymore, like back in the EQ days) to bring down a mob or clear a zone and defeat critters that other guilds strive to kill. You wear that shiny new piece of armor, or weapon with particle effects dripping off of it, and people stop to inspect you. They want one too, and try their best to get one, through their own guild, pick up raids, or joining a guild that can clear that content. A change of scenery and variety of loot art or stats does wonders to keep people interested in playing an mmo, and promotes a healthy desire to progress through content. Instead programming 2 raid zones with 6 difficulty variants, they should have designed 6 individual raid zones, each requiring the prior tier's loot to defeat. (aka gear checks) Hell, they could have just popped the same mobs into different zones, randomized the batting order, re-skinned them, and tossed in a new ability, damage, health, or some other mechanic and people would think it was awesome. I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. To go the extra step, they could have come up with some unique loot (not set gear), and/or made the 3 sets of gear (Tio/Col/Rak) more distinct from one another than just color scheme. But killing the same mobs in the same 2 zones over and over again, regardless of difficulty, is absolutely lame. It lacks creativity and tragically fails to inspire any sense of adventure, accomplishment, or astonishment found in predecessor mmos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemina_Ausa Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 MMOs are no longer games really, just a form of social entertainment that companies use to draw in revenue. Its cheaper to simply add in "hard modes", and thus not requiring you to spend additional resources designing entirely new zones, boss and such, not to mention all the artwork required for armors, bosses and environments and all the additional work required to ensure that it gets patched in smoothly. If the majority of their audience accepts this (which, apparently a majority of MMO players do), they'll keep doing this simply because it's cheaper, and they're still sucking in your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Its about more than just mechanics, its about giving raiders a feeling that they are able to unlock new content that they wouldn't be able to otherwise. Raiding isnt only about farming phat loot, it is about a sense of accomplishment. The satisfaction you get from coordinating a large force (well, not so large anymore, like back in the EQ days) to bring down a mob or clear a zone and defeat critters that other guilds strive to kill. You wear that shiny new piece of armor, or weapon with particle effects dripping off of it, and people stop to inspect you. They want one too, and try their best to get one, through their own guild, pick up raids, or joining a guild that can clear that content. A change of scenery and variety of loot art or stats does wonders to keep people interested in playing an mmo, and promotes a healthy desire to progress through content. Instead programming 2 raid zones with 6 difficulty variants, they should have designed 6 individual raid zones, each requiring the prior tier's loot to defeat. (aka gear checks) Hell, they could have just popped the same mobs into different zones, randomized the batting order, re-skinned them, and tossed in a new ability, damage, health, or some other mechanic and people would think it was awesome. I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. To go the extra step, they could have come up with some unique loot (not set gear), and/or made the 3 sets of gear (Tio/Col/Rak) more distinct from one another than just color scheme. But killing the same mobs in the same 2 zones over and over again, regardless of difficulty, is absolutely lame. It lacks creativity and tragically fails to inspire any sense of adventure, accomplishment, or astonishment found in predecessor mmos. I agree with this. I loved EQ1 and EQ2's system of different loot from different raid zones as well as having to key through the zones to even zone into the next raid. It has a much better sense of progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetPloughed Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hard modes are the way of the future. Why make 3 raids when you can make 1 raid 3 times. I was hoping BioWare would be the one to man up and bring back raiding, but it seems I was wrong. Time to keep looking for a MMO that offers raid content and doesn't bend over backwards for the little PvP kiddies, and their housewife gaming mothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beergogglez Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 it's a little too late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchropie Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Why make 3 raids when you can make 1 raid 3 times. This made me lol. +10 points to Gryffindor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeloDaoC Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 The gear sets should be spread out between 3-4 instances. Actually lotro and even rift had some nicer way, get tier 1 gear in smaller instances (well actually rift/lotro small instances are as big as swtor big ones) Then use that tier 1 gear in the first big raid Having to short instances makes into a grind, even more so when you add hardmode and nightmare mode of it..you HAVE to do them to get the next tier gear, even though you have done them loads of times, now just with higher healpoints. Even if you change boss mechanics, its still the same boss, and still the same enemies and surroundings. For a raider, the trashmobs are not that important. Its not fun to JUST fight bosses either, but the more bosses there are in dungeon, the better. SWToR instances are also extremly linear, there are no options "should we take the left side first?" or mechanics that makes the next boss chance in mechanics depandant on your previous actions, thats where the hardmode should be, not turning of that bosses powersupply to make it harder, or turning it of to make it easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedano Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 We will never see an MMO again that bends the rules, or breaks new ground, or brings back the old school things we miss. WoW has unfortunately started a new paradigm of MMO's. It is how to make as much money as possible with putting in minimal effort. From a business stand point it's obviously perfect, spend less to make more. They will not listen to the player base on the whole shot if it doesn't coincide with the corporate side of things. If it will cost a ton of money to make new raids and new mobs and new gear, then chances are we won't see it. The MMO genre has changed so drastically in the past 5 years. We have seen a vast number of them come and go in quick succession. If there was an MMO graveyard, it would be getting full by now. Everyone saw how big wow had become and wanted to get in on that gravy train. Unfortunately, they saturated the market with them and started to take off the luster of what was once an incredible experience. Many have tried and failed and it seems no one has learned from it. All these companies see the same business model that is wow now and said we can do that too. But the simple truth is, they can't. When you are already an established giant in the genre, you can get away with putting out a crap product and ride on your name for a while. When you are new, you do not get the same luxury, hence why so many MMO's have sparked and burnt out in such a quick time frame. The companies have veered so far off what made this genre so awesome that I don't think they could make it awesome again, and us as consumers hope and pray and dream that the next new MMO will break the current mold, grow a pair, and bring back that breathless feeling of accomplishment, team, and the reward matches the hard work put in, not exceeding on either side (i.e. too much loot for too little work or vice versa). I am saddened by the truth of the matter, which is the MMO genre is a dying one. The onslaught of games that come out to try to suck on the proverbial teet have left a number of the players jaded and wanting more, but never getting it. It is this poor output that is changing the games themselves into fast burning money makers, and that is all. You can have all the blizzcons, dragoncons, guild summits and meetings of whatever kind you wish to call them, but the fact of the matter is, the new paradigm is here to stay and it's not going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavieDe Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) HM and NM modes allow the devs to build new raids while still proving content for raiders, since it will always be faster to complete raids than design new ones these modes keep raiders occupied while they make the next teir Of course if you want raids that are just simple reskins of previous raids then they could probably roll a new one out every month or so Edited March 7, 2012 by DavieDe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneiros_IV Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Not to mention extremely poor balance when designing HM/NM. Take for instance EV trash it does nothing to players you just slowly wade through enormous amounts of HP in a chaos of harmless mobs. Or world bosses, 20-30 mins of tank/spank with players of apropriate level. Feels epic man. /facepalm Seems damage and hp values were pulled out of sarlakk pit without any internal testing. Edited March 7, 2012 by Oneiros_IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts