Ich_Bin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Class changes in 1.2 include new abilities for the Warrior and the Knight, a nerf for the Bounty Hunter, and more. Every class will receive changes, and all skill tree points refunded so you can look over the trees again before deciding how to rebuild your class. "Some players will be excited, some might not. That's always the case when there's tweaks to classes." Source: http://pc.ign.com/articles/121/1219843p1.html I really hope there will also be decent changes to DD Operatives/Scoundrels (no nerfs this time!) in that game update. It can only get better, right? Edited March 5, 2012 by Ich_Bin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 We'll see, but I'm not all that optimistic after the comment that Bioware knows agents/smugs are the least played class in the game and basically don't even care enough to figure out why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimism Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Oh boy, if there's new abilities for knights/warriors, it better be fore Juggernauts and Guardians. Marauders and Sentinels already have something huge which is the 20% healing reduction debuff that will make them insta-invite. I wouldn't be shocked if the operative change is a new icon for Kolto Infusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hey, your name is Optimism. Be more optimistic! Eh, I'm not getting my hopes up either. But I am looking forward to the patch regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreasus Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I do not think that we get much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geflin Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) We're not getting anything. Check list for BW giving a damn 1 Do you wield a lightsaber 2 Do you use force powers 3 Do you threaten in any way our beloved Sage/Sorc If yes to either 1 or 2 they care. If yes to 3 they will nerf (eg BH and Ops). At this point BW doesn't even care enough to give us 'The Finger'. There are a number of small tweaks the could implement that would not make the class OP. They just have to understand the class, its weaknesses, and then as a said before 'care'. At this point I, like many others, need to decide if its time to take our ball (credit card) and go home. Edited March 6, 2012 by geflin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JidaiGeki Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Honestly, it's the same thing in every class forum- incessant QQ'ing about how broken the class is. I play a level 34 heal-spec'd Op at the moment and I seriously haven't had any problems with energy management since I got SP. I regularly top out WZ's with healing, though of course my damage is mediocre. If I get targeted by an opposing sentinel/trooper, I can self-heal until they get bored or back-up arrives. In PvE I rarely have trouble keeping everyone healed, and I have zero problems if I'm focusing simply on a tank. That 30% TA chance on kolto probe is golden when it's stacked on everyone. Of course, I can't speak for other specs. As for RN, I haven't tried it personally but I hear it's less than useful, which is why I'm hybrid-speccing into concealement. I'm simply not getting, from personal experience, why there are so many complaints about the class. I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Honestly, it's the same thing in every class forum- incessant QQ'ing about how broken the class is. I play a level 34 heal-spec'd Op at the moment and I seriously haven't had any problems with energy management since I got SP. I regularly top out WZ's with healing, though of course my damage is mediocre. If I get targeted by an opposing sentinel/trooper, I can self-heal until they get bored or back-up arrives. In PvE I rarely have trouble keeping everyone healed, and I have zero problems if I'm focusing simply on a tank. That 30% TA chance on kolto probe is golden when it's stacked on everyone. Of course, I can't speak for other specs. As for RN, I haven't tried it personally but I hear it's less than useful, which is why I'm hybrid-speccing into concealement. I'm simply not getting, from personal experience, why there are so many complaints about the class. I love it. You haven't had any problems because 1) In the 10-49 bracket, Operatives are doing fine 2) The healer spec is more viable than the DD spec right now (even though both need some love from Bioware) If you played a Concealment Operative (or Lethality lol!) in endgame PvP or PvE and compared it to other classes you would know what we are talking about. Also remember that we are not primarily compalining about class mechanics. This class definitely is fun to play. But right now it just can't compete with the other classes (unless you have a skill + gear advantage). Edited March 6, 2012 by Ich_Bin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dampiel Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 LOL i dont forsee bioware letting us be a threat to sage/sorcs again, Like someone else said their criterion for even looking at buffing a class is 1. Do you wield a lightsaber? 2. Do you have force power? 3. Do you pose a threat to our beloved sage/sorc? If answer to 1 and 2 are Yes, expect a buff, if Yes to 3... expect another nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcapotos Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 We'll see, but I'm not all that optimistic after the comment that Bioware knows agents/smugs are the least played class in the game and basically don't even care enough to figure out why. They claim to know why, it's because they are not as iconic as the other classes. Basically: lightsabers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dampiel Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The operative is the least played class because... Every role the Operative has is not on par with other classes filling the same role in a team based scenario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) They claim to know why, it's because they are not as iconic as the other classes. Basically: lightsabers Smugglers are every bit as iconic, but suffer the same popularity problem. Bounty hunters don't have a lightsaber, but are well-populated. So if they really believe that's the reason, they're wrong. The operative is the least played class because... Every role the Operative has is not on par with other classes filling the same role in a team based scenario This is the real reason. Edited March 6, 2012 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerikin_Loukbel Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'd also add that they are more difficult to play well. Not played well they are really bad. Played well they are still out shined at every role they can do by another class. We have to juggle energy and TAs while an inquisitor or warrior can face roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnanoMaldito Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 this is becoming more and more annoying with the passing f days. Seeing no response from devs is making me lose all faith that we're ever gonna get fixed. Ops need a complete redesign or some major buff, as right now there's absolutely no reason to bring an Op to raid, when there's tons better melee DPS and the Sorc/Merc combo works way better than Ops in healing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis_Anubis Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The operative is the least played class because... Every role the Operative has is not on par with other classes filling the same role in a team based scenario Utter horse manure. The vast majority of players in this game do not sport multiple alts. This is a new game, there hasn't been time for the flavour of the month effect to take hold. And even in WoW's late period, the flavour of the month effect was never that strong, because people get attached to certain characters, and even if they don't, itemizing multiple characters is a pain in the neck. The reason Smugglers and Agents are under-represented is because they're not as glamourous as a force-user or friggen Boba-Fett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatzimaus Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The operative is the least played class because... Every role the Operative has is not on par with other classes filling the same role in a team based scenario Right. This is one of those situations where every player knows the true balance, since we've actually seen the classes play and/or played them ourselves, while the devs are cherry-picking whatever metric supports the decisions they've already made. We've seen this more than enough times from other MMO developers, after all. Honestly, why would anyone expect an actual buff for us in 1.2? Remember, the devs have made more posts on these message boards about the availability of white lightsaber crystals then on all Agent or Smuggler issues COMBINED, and their few comments about us have primarily been statements about how we're right on par with other classes in their internal metrics. They've never posted any comments in the long, long threads discussing actual balance or suggestions. They can't even pretend there's someone on their staff who actually cares about us, so why would you expect better of them? Other MMOs, at least, have appointed internal "class representatives" to stay up-to-date on the issues each class faces, but Bioware clearly has no one doing that for us. And then they trot out the "iconic" line to explain our low population, despite the fact that Smugglers are just as unpopular despite being more "iconic" than ANY of the Sith classes. My guess is that in 1.2 we'll get some token buff (make TAs last a bit longer, that sort of thing), but they'll mainly claim that things like the Force Bending fix to healing Sorcerers will bring us into balance with them. Ironically enough, they're adding offline logging in 1.2, so by the time we're finally able to PROVE how bad our sustainable DPS is, we'll have to wait until at least 1.3 to see any actual changes resulting from those logs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Utter horse manure. The vast majority of players in this game do not sport multiple alts. This is a new game, there hasn't been time for the flavour of the month effect to take hold. And even in WoW's late period, the flavour of the month effect was never that strong, because people get attached to certain characters, and even if they don't, itemizing multiple characters is a pain in the neck. The reason Smugglers and Agents are under-represented is because they're not as glamourous as a force-user or friggen Boba-Fett. Then how come the relative population of Scoundrel/Operative players is actually decreasing on most servers while the numbers of Gunslingers/Snipers is increasing? Also why have most most of the Scoundrels/Operatives that still play respecced from dps to heal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis_Anubis Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Then how come the relative population of Scoundrel/Operative players is actually decreasing on most servers while the numbers of Gunslingers/Snipers is increasing? Also why have most most of the Scoundrels/Operatives that still play respecced from dps to heal? Show your source. Without some fact backing your numbers, I have no reason to believe you're not just making up trends to support the conclusion you showed up ready to argue. If you're relying on /who data personally polled, congratulations, that's what life is like on YOUR server, at the times YOU play. And at the end of the day, it's still just data, not reason. There can be lots of reasons for a trend that don't have anything to do with the power of one class over another. The real truth is that class and spec choices are informed by many, many factors, most of which have nothing to do with game balance. Aesthetics, playstyle, guild composition, or just good, old alt-itis can cause class representation to fluctuate. My point it this: Don't use representation to argue balance. It's a fallacious premise, regardless of what corroborating circumstantial evidence you can gin up to support it. Hunters were junk through 90% of World of Warcraft's history, yet they remained highly represented in the player population because they were easy to level and lots of people liked having pets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dampiel Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 this is becoming more and more annoying with the passing f days. Seeing no response from devs is making me lose all faith that we're ever gonna get fixed. Ops need a complete redesign or some major buff, as right now there's absolutely no reason to bring an Op to raid, when there's tons better melee DPS and the Sorc/Merc combo works way better than Ops in healing.... I dont know how many times i have said this in other Operative threads, but BIOWARE DEVS DO NOT READ OPERATIVE FORUMS, you think they would even dare tho show their faces in here after the over done blanket nerf they did to Operatives? If you need proof bioware devs 1. Don't read Operative forums and 2. Don't care 1 bit about what their smallest player base thinks I suggest you search how many dev posts are in each class forums. If you go into the consular/inquisitor forums you will find MANY (80+) dev posts. If you search the Agent/scoundrel forums will find... 12... at best? I will stand firm with my comment earlier that "The reason the Operative is the least played class is due to the fact that any role an Operative can do is FAR inferior to the same role filled by another class in a team based scenario." Will bioware ever see my belief? no they are too busy telling sages/sorcs how much better they are going to be when they blanket nerf every class into the ground because the largest player base is sages/sorcs, and they want to please /keep the largest group of players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Show your source. Without some fact backing your numbers, I have no reason to believe you're not just making up trends to support the conclusion you showed up ready to argue. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=338573 There you go. It's not proof (obviously only Bioware knows the real numbers) but I think those comments paint a pretty conclusive picture. There is no reason why anyone would play an Operative if he can also play an Assassin (unless he wants to be a healer). Because Assassin's can do everything Operatives can do... And much, much more. And that is just being reflected in the fact that Operatives are dying out on most servers. Edited March 7, 2012 by Ich_Bin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenjohnp Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The population for our class is far too low to ever catch the attention of the Devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daize Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) The population for our class is far too low to ever catch the attention of the Devs. If they only wanted six classes, they should never have bothered making the Imp Agent Operative in the first place. Woulda saved them a ton of dev time. Your claim is not logical. They most definitely will make the effort to help Operatives. Whether they do a good job at it or not remains to be seen, but saying Operatives will be/are ignored by BW purely based on demography is utter nonsense and silly whining. Edited March 7, 2012 by Daize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTie Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The population for our class is far too low to ever catch the attention of the Devs. yes but when we get fixed we will be a wanted class but few of us who stick with it will benefit from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dampiel Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Your claim is not logical. They most definitely will make the effort to help Operatives. Whether they do a good job at it or not remains to be seen, but saying Operatives will be/are ignored by BW purely based on demography is utter nonsense and silly whining. and yet there is empirical evidence to suggest that what you call "silly whining" is in fact... FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiJonPed Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Hi, I read in the patch notes for 1.2 that the Op buff was to boost our armour to Light Armour. This will make it easier for other classes to get Op kills due to their being so few of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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