lijahrobinson Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Tried it. At least at lower levels, still had serious energy issues. Powertech pyro seemed better. Heat Management is alot more important aspect to a pyrotech. But to counter that, their basic attack is alot better (16% chance to apply a 1000 damage over 6 sec DOT) The mobility, at least to me, really makes up for it. I am in the process of leveling a Powertech so i can try out the other side of it but that will be a while yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaspark Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 not trying to defend anything here, but it is very funny when I get on top of a grav/tracer spammer with my assassin interrupting that first shot and they freak the **** out...always fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Heat Management is alot more important aspect to a pyrotech. But to counter that, their basic attack is alot better (16% chance to apply a 1000 damage over 6 sec DOT) The mobility, at least to me, really makes up for it. I am in the process of leveling a Powertech so i can try out the other side of it but that will be a while yet. I might give it another go, but it definitely frustrated me. Plus, arsenal has some pretty neat things in its tree to play with aside from tracer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delavager Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Grav/Tracer is only OP/Imba against lower level and lower skilled players. At higher level and higher skill of play the grav/tracer spec drops tremendously. So it's basically a downward slope as you level/go up in skill levels. The question becomes would you rather trade off being "OP" at the beginning to being "UP" at the end? I don't know one level 50 who complains about tracer spamming being imbalanced. The spec will become very evident once ranked warzones come into the game and Grav/Tracer spammers are no where to be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I disagree. Sent/Marauder SHOULD be the scariest thing on the battlefield if well played... The issue is that if a well played Sent is against a well played (insert other class here) the advantage still goes to several other classes first. Well played sents can FACEROLL underplayed anything. But if ability is equal there are several classes/builds that have some pretty overwhelming advantages. Outside of the side area in Huttball, a well played Sentinel can be quite easily neutralized (i.e. 50/50 chance to win) by a well played any other powerhouse classes. Also, the dominance of Sentinel in the side area does not make up for them being absolutely shredded on the catwalks in the same map if you care at all about winning, since controlling the catwalks is far more important to winning Huttball than controlling the side area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triangulate Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I couldn't agree more with OP. I play three lvl 50's in WZ's Operative Sentinel Commando Commando left to free cast is an absolute nightmare and its true... it does take zero skill. In Hutball i stand right on the edge of a ledge and spam. Any sith trying to leap to me falls off, the ones that succeed get my KB right in the face. I have a total of 8 keys bound on my trooper. On my Op i have 18 and on my Sentinel lol... lets just say two keyboards would help. However, when caught in the open by any melee even slightly competent then im toast, Grav spamming troopers are for group play period, forget wondering off solo. Also Commando is probably the (could be close with a Sorc tbh) most noob friendly class in any MMO i have ever played. Compare playing a grav/tracer or lightning/pebble spammer to playing a marauder/sentinel is just a lol. Melee is very unforgiving, make a mistake with your rotation or don't CC in time and ur dead. The spamming classes have it much much easier, and that is why there are so many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyrLXXVII Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I couldn't agree more with OP. I play three lvl 50's in WZ's Operative Sentinel Commando Commando left to free cast is an absolute nightmare and its true... it does take zero skill. In Hutball i stand right on the edge of a ledge and spam. Any sith trying to leap to me falls off, the ones that succeed get my KB right in the face. I have a total of 8 keys bound on my trooper. On my Op i have 18 and on my Sentinel lol... lets just say two keyboards would help. However, when caught in the open by any melee even slightly competent then im toast, Grav spamming troopers are for group play period, forget wondering off solo. Also Commando is probably the (could be close with a Sorc tbh) most noob friendly class in any MMO i have ever played. Compare playing a grav/tracer or lightning/pebble spammer to playing a marauder/sentinel is just a lol. Melee is very unforgiving, make a mistake with your rotation or don't CC in time and ur dead. The spamming classes have it much much easier, and that is why there are so many of them. Cool, you perfectly explained how they are balanced. They may be the newb class, with a low learning/skill curve, but that still doesn't mean they require change, for all we know its meant that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFurz Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 not trying to defend anything here, but it is very funny when I get on top of a grav/tracer spammer with my assassin interrupting that first shot and they freak the **** out...always fun Can you interrupt the whole school ? Wonder they freak out since they have a 2nd "missile" spam ability with similar dmg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triangulate Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Cool, you perfectly explained how they are balanced. They may be the newb class, with a low learning/skill curve, but that still doesn't mean they require change, for all we know its meant that way. That is exactly my point lol. I don't think they need a nerf, people that dribble gravy down their chin need to PvP aswell lol. My Trooper is stricktly PvE now, after reaching 50 i just didnt enjoy the gameplay... its very boring and doesn't tax me enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatermitts Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Because I don't like people that make baseless claims, especially about balance. And I'm sorry, 25 matches with a -class- and no where near the full spec itself is baseless. It seems honestly like you opinion is based purely on forum posts and you just got minimal experience to try to add some credibility. If the main reason to want the spec changed is because its a.one trick pony, not OP or UP. Then its not worth even talking about because it doesn't matter if you like it or not. It doesn't matter that I don't like it, it is balanced and so there is no call to mess with that balance. If you have some balanced related problem that isn't countered by what's been said time after time then let's hear it. You know that if you don't agree with me or don't think I have an argument, or whatever you aren't required to add in your opinion. I simply don't care to defend myself to someone I don't know, especially someone who isn't making a valid counterpoint. Also, just so you know, I never claimed to know everything or that my experience is what people should be looking at as a point to change the class. Just what happened when I played. Calm down; take some blood pressure medication or grab a drink. It's just a video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyrLXXVII Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) You know that if you don't agree with me or don't think I have an argument, or whatever you aren't required to add in your opinion. I simply don't care to defend myself to someone I don't know, especially someone who isn't making a valid counterpoint. Also, just so you know, I never claimed to know everything or that my experience is what people should be looking at as a point to change the class. Just what happened when I played. Calm down; take some blood pressure medication or grab a drink. It's just a video game. Lol, I'm totally calm. As for never claiming to know everythingy, well you shouldn't have started spouting about facts in the OP, because even now you are saying its all opinion based on you personal experience. No I'm not required to add my opinion, but when I see people putting more bs out there I'm not just going to sit back. I, unlike most MMO players, do look at everything objectively and unbiased. So I'm going to defend things from baseless arguments. If you think my argument is baseless explain how. No one else seems to think I'm the one that's in the wrong. Refreshed... The class is not OP because it has serious weaknesses. It's not UP be cause it can do sick damage. Do you dispute either of those? Last, I don't like the spec, think its boring. You don't like it, think its boring too easy, whatever but nothing to do with balance, correct? Well you can't change a class just because you or I don't like it, others do like it. You can only change it if it has balance issues or -no one- likes it, meaning -zero- people play it. So since we know a ton of ppl play it, do you have a balance related issues that needs addressing with the class or not? Preferably one that's not already been shot down multiple times. Edited March 5, 2012 by MartyrLXXVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I have a total of 8 keys bound on my trooper. Then you are terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyrLXXVII Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Then you are terrible. Lol, that is why they freak out so bad when toy interrupt TM/Grav, may as well just take their keyboard away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triangulate Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Then you are terrible. Uthinkso? Lol Tell me what keys need to be bound on a commando. Grav Full auto auto attack sticky nade KB Trinket HiB .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... There isnt realy anything else that NEEDS to be bound, remember that you are attacking from range. You could be a clicker and finish top 3 every match in Hutball and voidstar, there is no need to have them bound. Now Ops and sentinels on the other hand have builders and situational skills that need to be hit in the correct order during the heat of frenzied melee. They NEED to have EVERY skill bound or they will die and die and die. I could easily top a Hutball WZ damage chart as a lvl20 Grav spammer without a single key bound... just by clicking. Binding 8 means i can eat and watch TV as i only need one hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyrLXXVII Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Dont see heals, consumables, shield, and just general other stuff that may be handy when the **** hits the fan. Seriously just because you are gunnery doesn't mean you throw your heals in the trash. So yeah terrible player if you don't use everything available to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgarr Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Tracer spam? lol, interupt, my next ability, then stun are my friend. I love going after the scrubs who constanlty do this. On my commando where people let me spam grav, i just laugh Edited March 5, 2012 by Elgarr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triangulate Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Dont see heals, consumables, shield, and just general other stuff that may be handy when the **** hits the fan. Seriously just because you are gunnery doesn't mean you throw your heals in the trash. So yeah terrible player if you don't use everything available to you. Lol i was asking, WHAT absolutely NEEDS to be bound. On melee it is EVERYTHING. On commando you only realy need your core abilities. A melee trying to stay on target and strafe and use the correct abilities as they become available needs to have everything bound, there is simply zero chance of being able to Click on a TAB while doing all this. Now lets look at commando, keybind your "must haves" and the rest could be easily clicked. Im talking about the skill levels of calsses here, commando just doesn't have one. It is the way they are designed, everything is designed around Grav round. You could get tops damage in Hutball by pressing nothing but Grav lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeloDaoC Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Lol i was asking, WHAT absolutely NEEDS to be bound. On melee it is EVERYTHING. On commando you only realy need your core abilities. A melee trying to stay on target and strafe and use the correct abilities as they become available needs to have everything bound, there is simply zero chance of being able to Click on a TAB while doing all this. Now lets look at commando, keybind your "must haves" and the rest could be easily clicked. Im talking about the skill levels of calsses here, commando just doesn't have one. It is the way they are designed, everything is designed around Grav round. You could get tops damage in Hutball by pressing nothing but Grav lol. pff, i have a mara and scoundrel. I dont use more skills on them, but neither do they get as locked down as my commando when hit back. in 1 fight if i dont get hit, i use 8+ skills, if i get hit, add another 6 skills on my commando. Its pretty much the same on both my other char. Using only grav i do more damage then the other 2 yes, but the damage only using grav rounds are really crap, i do much more damage using all my skills but not more then the other 2 using the same amount of skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarna Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Mercenaries/Commandos are fine. Any melee character will tear them a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muteownz Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 i rolled a trooper because i liked their armor and i wanted to be a ranged dps in heavy armor. sure i noticed all the people that spam grav round and tracer but that is just how the class plays out currently. you get buffs, procs, debuffs and it hits hard... WHY NOT use it often. what else would you use? i use gernades, stuns, knockbacks, CC's too. anyways they are getting nerfed. later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryca Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If it's boring to play the class and everyone hates playing against them because of all the spam, it doesn't matter if they're balanced or not (still open to debate). They need to be changed. Pretty much this. I find it difficult to imagine what was going through the head of the guy who designed this class. It reminds me of playing a chosen in warhammer (with nerfbuttons and twister) where 85% of my game play was mashing the same button over and over again. Strangely enough I played like that for a while. I guess winning is it own kind of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmithril Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I love tracer spammers! They are the easiest to kill. Interrupt and watch them stand there and die. Too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKfourtyseven Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The time where grav spammers become an issue is when you have a collection of them in an open space. A backline of troopers is the most annoying thing on Ilum if you are playing melee and not ranged. In a WZ situation, its much easier to get in their face and shut them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrandis Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I love tracer spammers! They are the easiest to kill. Interrupt and watch them stand there and die. Too easy. You are part of the 1% it seems. Lets nerf Grav round, and then lets nerf Assault Plastique and High Impact bolt on Vanguards. Snipe/Charged Shot hits too hard from range as well and lets make it so cover no longer grants immunity to interrupts and charge. LETZ HAV A RAVE GUIZ! GRAB UR GLOWStICKS. Story Attached: I play a commando(spec'd for grav round) and my friend plays a shadow. He is getting wrecked by BM Merc tracer missile spammer. He is in champion, and I am in Rakata/BM. He says "man I bet you that tracer missile spammer takes top damage." Both him(the merc) and me had Sentinel/Marauders on our nuts. I have every button on my commando keybound and use all the damage tools/ammo regen/ammo conservation/charged bolts in case I get interrupted/adrenal/relics. He used strictly tracer missile(no 3 rocket shot or railshot on his part or unload). Not only did I take top damage, I more than doubled his. And tripled his kills(his 11 to my 42). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Mercs have nothing but tracer spam, and if a melee gets on top of them they are in serious trouble and more than likely dead. This. In comparison I would like to say something about madness specced sorcerers, they have a no-cooldown channeled ability that is far more annoying in their damn force lightning. I don't mind the damage, the fact that they can pop their buff and slow snipe me from across half the map is what kills my enjoyment. Imagine if you will a merc casting tracer missile at one of my teammates in huttball, I have seen him pop his AOE knockback recently and therefore use my leap to interrupt his very easily interruptible ability. After dotting him up I'm suddenly hit by force lightning from two sorcs standing up on the high routes on the other side of the huttball central pit, I'm not high enough level to have force camo so I'm pretty much dead even if I kill the now-crippled and burning player I set out to hit. Now ask yourself the question: Did I die due to lack of skill on my part? I clearly failed to anticipate the ranged focus from the other side of the map which slows my character down to a crawl in addition to dealing not insignificant damage. This is not to say that I consider sorcerers overpowered, I can take one on 1v1 easily enough and the most that poor sap will be able to hope for is that the rest of his team focuses me down before I kill him, or that he manages to knock me back and RUN AWAY. What I'm saying is that current pug tactics favors ranged classes because everyone sucks up to them, if you are playing a ranged class or carolina PT people will at least make an effort to keep you alive or at least stay anywhere close to you to draw fire away. If you are a sentinel everyone seems to just consider you a disposable damage buff and leave you to die the second they see any targets of opportunity. And let's be honest here, if there are two or more ranged classes standing a bit apart there is very little you can do to kill either of them in a 1v2 situation, the one you target will just keep you rooted or slowed and allow the other one to kill you. Aside from playing premades I can see no way to remedy this, and seeing as everyone I know seem to make every excuse to not play SWtOR anymore that isn't an option either. So in summary I guess I just hate the other players I seem to get stuck with every time. Player stupidity and enemy team cohesion is too unfair, nerf them! =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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