ChinMaki Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The thing about most people is that they keep complaining on that this should be implented upon launch and this and that. The thing is, if you have played a lot of MMORPGs, the reason for staying is to wait for those to come out. All MMORPGs are released without a certain feature or some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethusa Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) You are right but not entirely right. For example: I have a level 50 character and he still has rested state on experience. Warzones are rewarding me experience rewards and rested bars are going back. This is not about the content. This is about the rush. They say EA forced BioWare about SWTOR launch time and we got this. I hope Update 1.2 will get us to a better condition. Edited March 5, 2012 by Aethusa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxmendacium Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 You are right but not entirely right. For example: I have a level 50 character and he still has rested state on experience. Warzones are rewarding me experience rewards and rested bars are going back. This is not about the content. This is about the rush. They say EA forced BioWare about SWTOR launch time and we got this. I hope Update 1.2 will get us to a better condition. It's really not that bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackumDog Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 People call for LFG tools etc, but even in the games they used to play these were not there on release, it is something the community wanted and got. If we just expect the game to be a clone of other games, and start off identically then we are forgetting the point that games like this should be driven by players and to evolve into what the MMO player wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackumDog Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 You are right but not entirely right. For example: I have a level 50 character and he still has rested state on experience. Warzones are rewarding me experience rewards and rested bars are going back. This is not about the content. This is about the rush. They say EA forced BioWare about SWTOR launch time and we got this. I hope Update 1.2 will get us to a better condition. Sadly the game was late, and commercial pressure means they have to release at some point. Yes it could have done with a few more months in the developers oven, but there is a chance that the shareholders get nervous and pull the plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akento Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 People call for LFG tools etc, but even in the games they used to play these were not there on release, it is something the community wanted and got. If we just expect the game to be a clone of other games, and start off identically then we are forgetting the point that games like this should be driven by players and to evolve into what the MMO player wants. I so want to post this to anyone that says otherwise... I don't see why it's so hard to understand, that time is the most major part of an MMO. It's never complete, and it will never be completed. We are the driving force behind what the MMO becomes (Unless the company that is running it is foolish.... Which most are.) Great post man, with only a couple sentences you said it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethusa Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I so want to post this to anyone that says otherwise... I don't see why it's so hard to understand, that time is the most major part of an MMO. It's never complete, and it will never be completed. We are the driving force behind what the MMO becomes (Unless the company that is running it is foolish.... Which most are.) Great post man, with only a couple sentences you said it all. Good point. We need to wait and suffer but support the game for our children in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghaiana Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I agree with OP, and anyway there would not be a reason to pay a subscription fee if they didn't intend to add content and improve the game over time. I think they delivered a nice first step where people had a good leveling experience (and a lot of people still have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackumDog Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Good point. We need to wait and suffer but support the game for our children in future. This is what is wrong the the current MMO community, you do not understand that unlike COD the game is not supposed to be a story you play once and once you have completed you buy the next release. The player is supposed to interact, and be involved in the games mutation, if you think about how long WOW has been released, it has changed a lot since day one, Where as COD 5 remeains the same today as it did on release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owenthorn Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 People call for LFG tools etc, but even in the games they used to play these were not there on release, it is something the community wanted and got. If we just expect the game to be a clone of other games, and start off identically then we are forgetting the point that games like this should be driven by players and to evolve into what the MMO player wants. Not just exactly copy, but to not give tools, that the community wanted, since standing around in the fleet the majority of your play time, yelling LFM for OPS is not fun, people wanted a better way, they got it but for BW to not implement those types of tools from the start, seems a bad design idea a LFD and LFR type tools have not destroyed anything, and are very useful No, a MMO is never "finished", but to release it, in such a bad state, compared to the beta, was also wrong, and they have suffered the backlash for it, drop in subs, etc..., but I also understand there is "never" a perfect time when it is "finished" and it is perfect to release to the public, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackumDog Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Not just exactly copy, but to not give tools, that the community wanted, since standing around in the fleet the majority of your play time, yelling LFM for OPS is not fun, people wanted a better way, they got it but for BW to not implement those types of tools from the start, seems a bad design idea a LFD and LFR type tools have not destroyed anything, and are very useful No, a MMO is never "finished", but to release it, in such a bad state, compared to the beta, was also wrong, and they have suffered the backlash for it, drop in subs, etc..., but I also understand there is "never" a perfect time when it is "finished" and it is perfect to release to the public, Ill admit the LFG tool is a bad example as it is a poor implementation, and should have been designed a lot better from the start. The problem is if the implement it one way, we could find they spent a lot of time invested in code and to throw that away and start again is financially unattractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 You are right but not entirely right. This is not about the content. This is about the rush. They say EA forced BioWare about SWTOR launch time and we got this. I hope Update 1.2 will get us to a better condition. Unfortunately I agree, Aethusa. I like TOR the way it is as leveling is enjoyable and can be done at a leisurely (slower than a legless tortoise with lumbago in my case) pace... But the truth is that it feels unfinished. Different graphical issues and some bugged encounters exist, and frankly I expected them in a massive game like this - but I can't shake that very specific feeling I get when I play games that could have used a few more months in development. Don't get me wrong, I really like this game despite its flaws. Hell, I loved KOTOR 2 even though it was unfinished! And I have faith that Bioware will fix up the game eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terko_Koslah Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 If a jedi doesn't use force as a resource, the game is flawed to the core and is not really a star wars game but a copy of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstormhunter Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Unfinished, sure I guess, mmos are NEVER finished though so that isn't saying much of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) If a jedi doesn't use force as a resource, the game is flawed to the core and is not really a star wars game but a copy of it. Eh... This is a minor detail for me. It's just semantics, "focus" for example could simply mean how concentrated the Jedi is and as a result how effectively they're using the Force at the given moment. And besides, IMO the Force is not something that should be measured with numbers and meters... It's value is diminished that way. Isn't it supposed to be above pure science? *blocks ears I'M NOT LISTENING TO MIDI-CHLORIANS LALALALALA* I understand what you mean of course and why you would have this peeve as I am a story driven gamer myself, not to mention a purist at times in some things - but this is a small detail I could personally get around. Edited March 5, 2012 by archifikoss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petromir Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Unfortunately I agree, Aethusa. I like TOR the way it is as leveling is enjoyable and can be done at a leisurely (slower than a legless tortoise with lumbago in my case) pace... But the truth is that it feels unfinished. Different graphical issues and some bugged encounters exist, and frankly I expected them in a massive game like this - but I can't shake that very specific feeling I get when I play games that could have used a few more months in development. Don't get me wrong, I really like this game despite its flaws. Hell, I loved KOTOR 2 even though it was unfinished! And I have faith that Bioware will fix up the game eventually. The most polished MMO i play WoW still feels very unpolished in areas. SWTOR also feels unpolished but suprisingly close for a game thats had that much less polish time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) The thing about most people is that they keep complaining on that this should be implented upon launch and this and that. The thing is, if you have played a lot of MMORPGs, the reason for staying is to wait for those to come out. All MMORPGs are released without a certain feature or some sort. Unfinished is one thing. Not having key features that should have been the first items on the development block is another. Having boring level 50 content is another. Edited March 5, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinMaki Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 The thing is, if it came out with all the features that we want, why on earth would we wait anymore. Its like this, if something is too perfect for improvements, then doesnt it suck as well. I hope veteran MMORPGs are getting my point. The key tools are not released immediately for a reason. Like the UI improvement ive been so wanting ever since i got my game copy. Patience is a virtue. Hating something because it lacks something is bull. There is always a room for improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlonir Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Unfinished is one thing. Not having key features that should have been the first items on the development block is another. Having boring level 50 content is another. So what are these key features (besides lack of endgame content) that you are sorely missing? So many people just throw this term in there without any real backup.. and it is different for so many people. Personally, 'key' features I miss are: 1. The ability to make macros (for me, how to make my macros work to support my gamestyle is an important fun factor in MMOs, but I understand it is personal taste) 2. Post-creation character customization (Sometimes I just want to try a different hairdo) 3. Server-wide LFG Tool (and I don't mean an automated dungeon finder, I just mean something that makes it so that I am not only visible as LFG for people in the same world as I am in) 4. High-res character models outside conversations (You want to sometimes just stare at your avatar and be like "oh yeah, I look good!" to be proud of the work you did getting new gear) 5. UI customization tools (I like the current UI, stuff is in the place I expect it to be and I can change my keybinds. It just needs a bit more tools. Resizing, changing position, etc.. just so you can make sure everything you need is correctly visible on your specific machine) 6. Chat bubbles (if you have a location dependant channel in /say, at least also give us a system that shows where someone that says something in the channel is standing) To me, those are the key things this game misses. And I am a bit upset the first and second have not even been mentioned by the Dev team yet. But my point really is: The list of 'key features' is different for everyone. And each player has a different thing on top of their priority list. So for a game to come without some features is actually a good thing, especially if you get more content back for it. And shortly after launch, they go and put the most demanded features into the game and make them work. I think that was a good decision compared to the alternative. What if they decided to add Chat Bubbles or Macros but decided to not have any Operations on launch, or only have 1 Warzone instead of 3? I am glad they waited to hear what key requirements were for the players in the betas and early launch and started developing those as high priority once they had the info. Because otherwise, you get a game like Rift: Great systems in place, content wise a bore pretty fast. At least this game has the shiny content to keep you occupied untill they come with the desired systems. I still look forward to hearing about macros being added though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinMaki Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 I am not an enemy for improvement. I just understand that certain game features are MEANT to be added in the future for us to wait for it. Like back when I was playing Lineage 2. People became annoyed on the delay of adding new races, guild functions and stuff. None of these MMORPGs release the full potential upon launch, and I have played more than 10 MMORPGs, FTP and P2P alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The thing is, if it came out with all the features that we want, why on earth would we wait anymore. Its like this, if something is too perfect for improvements, then doesnt it suck as well. I hope veteran MMORPGs are getting my point. The key tools are not released immediately for a reason. Like the UI improvement ive been so wanting ever since i got my game copy. Patience is a virtue. Hating something because it lacks something is bull. There is always a room for improvement. They should not use basic features as the carrot. It should be the promise of more content like Flashpoints, Ops, and Gear. On top of that it should be paid expansions with more races, classes, and planets etc. The promise of fixes and basic features should never ever be the carrot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terebor Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 People call for LFG tools etc, but even in the games they used to play these were not there on release, it is something the community wanted and got. If we just expect the game to be a clone of other games, and start off identically then we are forgetting the point that games like this should be driven by players and to evolve into what the MMO player wants. Thats why you have BETA...exactly for stuff like that.... ofc a game comes out with a lot of potential to add, BUT to bring out an MMO in 2011 that hardly improved from MMO's released WAY earlier is absolutely rubbish. i think thats the only reason why ppl complain. But ok i understand that ppl have a different pov, thats what makes us human, but pls stop attacking eachother...thats just utterly childish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Ill admit the LFG tool is a bad example as it is a poor implementation, and should have been designed a lot better from the start. The problem is if the implement it one way, we could find they spent a lot of time invested in code and to throw that away and start again is financially unattractive. I think Bioware needs to becareful with any kind of LFG system.. It hasn't had the best impact on WOW.. They had to nerf the raids for LFG groups or pugs.. Which means they either aren't as good as players in guilds or they don't have the same quality gear.. All I am saying is that isn't working out so well for WOW right now.. It isn't working out for guilds either.. Dual speccing will be removed soon as well.. When Mists of Pandera is released.. There will no longer be talent trees.. Do we want that all to happen here as well.. SWTOR isn't finished, and in some areas it needs to stay unfinished.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinMaki Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 No ones attacking anyone bro. Far as I see everything seems constructive. I have a few suggestions of my own for future content http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=341100. Just to let you know that I do have concerns and the need for more content which is I am itching for. Everyone of us has these grand ideas, and its good to have other people to share them with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poogination Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Good point. We need to wait and suffer but support the game for our children in future. Change your color you idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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