Learning bout the Emperor & WTH....

[Darth_Solrac]

Dear Lord.

 

His title should be Darth MegaJesus. Starting at 6, he was probably on par with some Jedi Knights/Masters. From there on he just seems UBER, on most aspects. He's clearly a sorcerer. Probably the greatest SS ever. Seems worlds stronger than Sidious could even hope to be.

 

Doesn't say how he died....but it seems like no Jedi....or other Sith ever could even come close to touching him. Did he die from old age? Or is he still alive somehow & waiting as the chief villain in another game?

 

He became a Lord (Darth?) at 13, he started ruling a PLANET. Killed countless numbers of opponents, can control pretty much anyone with his mind.

 

He's also a traitor to the Sith Empire, as he ultimately plans to annihilate it, along with everything else. Malgus, & the others are right, he needs to be overthrown. But how? I hope I don't have to face him. Don't see how I could win.....

[undeadsithdread]

Dear Lord.

 

His title should be Darth MegaJesus. Starting at 6, he was probably on par with some Jedi Knights/Masters. From there on he just seems UBER, on most aspects. He's clearly a sorcerer. Probably the greatest SS ever. Seems worlds stronger than Sidious could even hope to be.

 

Doesn't say how he died....but it seems like no Jedi....or other Sith ever could even come close to touching him. Did he die from old age? Or is he still alive somehow & waiting as the chief villain in another game?

 

He became a Lord (Darth?) at 13, he started ruling a PLANET. Killed countless numbers of opponents, can control pretty much anyone with his mind.

 

He's also a traitor to the Sith Empire, as he ultimately plans to annihilate it, along with everything else. Malgus, & the others are right, he needs to be overthrown. But how? I hope I don't have to face him. Don't see how I could win.....

 

he is no where near sidious level especially the reborn palpatine.

[Temeluchus]

he is no where near sidious level especially the reborn palpatine.

 

Debatable. Marka Ragnos did say something to the effect that he was the most powerful Sith he had ever met, and thats Marka F-ing Ragnos we're talking about.

 

OP, doesn't say how he died, because we don't know yet. The story is still being told. For that matter, know one really knows what happened to this version of the Sith Empire and what happened to the Old Republic...yet.

[undeadsithdread]

Debatable. Marka Ragnos did say something to the effect that he was the most powerful Sith he had ever met, and thats Marka F-ing Ragnos we're talking about.

 

OP, doesn't say how he died, because we don't know yet. The story is still being told. For that matter, know one really knows what happened to this version of the Sith Empire and what happened to the Old Republic...yet.

 

laughable Ragnos is no where near being most powerful sith Ragnos got easily owned by padwan.

 

there is no debatble about palpatine not being most powereful all canon sources still states hes most powerful even in clone wars maul will make refrence palpatine is still most powerful no EU had that much crazy force powers and so fast in lightsaber combat then reborn palpatine.

Edited March 5, 2012 by undeadsithdread

[Temeluchus]

laughable Ragnos is no where near being most powerful sith Ragnos got easily owned by padwan.

 

"Marka Ragnos was powerful, both physically and in the use of the Force,[8] and was considered to be among the most powerful Sith and Force-users in Sith and Jedi history"

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Marka_Ragnos

 

Methinks you should do your research before going off half-cocked. Just to clarify, Marka Ragnos, who the above quote is about, said the Emperor was one of the most powerful Sith he had ever met. Doesn't matter if Palpatine or the Emperor was more powerful, not going to debate that, it should just give you an idea of the power the Emperor has.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Temeluchus

[undeadsithdread]

"Marka Ragnos was powerful, both physically and in the use of the Force,[8] and was considered to be among the most powerful Sith and Force-users in Sith and Jedi history"

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Marka_Ragnos

 

Methinks you should do your research before going off half-cocked.

 

haha star wars wiki trolled you well.

[Darth_Solrac]

he is no where near sidious level especially the reborn palpatine.

 

Sure? Haven't heard of Sidious doing even half the insane things Vitiate has done.

[Temeluchus]

Yup, good old Wookiepedia trolling me. they must troll everyone else who uses it for their online SW citations and references too.

 

Have a good one, man. I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

[Ranadiel_Marius]

In regards to the original post, the source on the stories from the Emperor's early life that you reference are basically rumors spread amongst the Dark Council 1000 years after the events transpired. I believe that they are intended to be trumped up versions of events and not necessarily how they actually transpired with no way for us to know how accurate they actually are.

 

To make a real world analogy, think of the George Washington cherry tree story. Never actually happened but people continue to tell the story because it tells a story about how a great man was always had the trappings of greatness(in this case honesty) from an early age. The stories about the Emperor are just a bit more extreme because he is practically seen as a god in the Empire and a longer period of time has passed for the stories to become further exagerated.

[Rayla_Felana]

Sure? Haven't heard of Sidious doing even half the insane things Vitiate has done.

 

Creating force storms in the shape of wormholes that annihilated an entire fleet.

 

Feeding off of billions of lives at his RESORT.

 

Was a walking Nexus of the Dark Side.

 

Used Battle Meditation on the entire Empire all across the galaxy, for it's entire reign.

 

Could wipe the minds of an entire planet.

 

Could create new force powers on whim.

 

Was the most powerful practitioner of Force Lightning ever.

 

Mastered all seven forms of Lightsaber combat and could use them ambidextrously.

 

Was so powerful that the bodies he inhabited would die because they couldn't handle it.

 

Could use Essence Transfer on a whim.

 

Unbalanced the force just by existing.

 

That's just a quick list.

 

Also, just so you know, Vitiate needed rituals, the power of 200 Sith Lords and other trinkets, as well as using Dromund Kaas as one giant Dark Side nexus, almost a meditation center that would enhance his power, predominantly the Dark Temple, Darth Sidious did all of the things mentioned above with just his own internal power, he didn't need anything to enhance his power.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Darth_Solrac]

In regards to the original post, the source on the stories from the Emperor's early life that you reference are basically rumors spread amongst the Dark Council 1000 years after the events transpired. I believe that they are intended to be trumped up versions of events and not necessarily how they actually transpired with no way for us to know how accurate they actually are.

 

To make a real world analogy, think of the George Washington cherry tree story. Never actually happened but people continue to tell the story because it tells a story about how a great man was always had the trappings of greatness(in this case honesty) from an early age. The stories about the Emperor are just a bit more extreme because he is practically seen as a god in the Empire and a longer period of time has passed for the stories to become further exagerated.

 

Fair enough? Is there a more accurate source you think?

[Tuscad]

Dear Lord.

 

His title should be Darth MegaJesus. Starting at 6, he was probably on par with some Jedi Knights/Masters. From there on he just seems UBER, on most aspects. He's clearly a sorcerer. Probably the greatest SS ever. Seems worlds stronger than Sidious could even hope to be.

 

Doesn't say how he died....but it seems like no Jedi....or other Sith ever could even come close to touching him. Did he die from old age? Or is he still alive somehow & waiting as the chief villain in another game?

 

He became a Lord (Darth?) at 13, he started ruling a PLANET. Killed countless numbers of opponents, can control pretty much anyone with his mind.

 

He's also a traitor to the Sith Empire, as he ultimately plans to annihilate it, along with everything else. Malgus, & the others are right, he needs to be overthrown. But how? I hope I don't have to face him. Don't see how I could win.....

 

His name should be Darth Reaper as he is secretly a Reaper from Mass Effect given his goal.

[Tuscad]

Fair enough? Is there a more accurate source you think?

 

I can only think of two. Lord Scourge or

Revan may know given his link with the Emperor.

 

[gibmachine]

I enjoy reading posts coming from Palpatine fanboys and how they're completely fine with their idol being ridiculously overpowered Dragon Ball Z god that can do anything anytime and how all he has going for him is his absurd power level without any mystical, eerie vibe.

 

I wish I'd never read about EU Palpatine. His portrayal in ep 6 was about right.

[Ranadiel_Marius]

Fair enough? Is there a more accurate source you think?

 

Released at the moment? No. In universe the only people that would have any idea are the Emperor, some force ghosts from the time of the Great Hyperspace War, and maybe Revan depending on how much info he got during his time connected to the Emperor.

[Deviss]

I enjoy reading posts coming from Palpatine fanboys and how they're completely fine with their idol being ridiculously overpowered Dragon Ball Z god that can do anything anytime and how all he has going for him is his absurd power level without any mystical, eerie vibe.

 

I wish I'd never read about EU Palpatine. His portrayal in ep 6 was about right.

 

This.

 

 

 

"The Sith Emperor was a Dark Lord of the Sith who reconstituted the Sith Empire after the Great Hyperspace War and went on to rule it for more than a millennium, becoming, arguably, the longest reigning Sith Lord in galactic history. According to legend, he was born Tenebrae, the illegitimate son of Lord Dramath of Medriaas and a poor farm woman, and was granted the title of Lord Vitiate by then-reigning Dark Lord of the Sith, Marka Ragnos."

 

Source: Wookieepedia - The Star Wars Wiki

 

 

Lord Vitiate: the ultimate ****** or the mary sue-like character?

 

Before you even consider to join this endless debate, I strongly suggest you make yourself familiar with this following short text:

 

Q: Who’s stronger – Darth Bane, Darth Revan or Darth Vader?

A: It’s a tie. Seriously, I can’t answer this. First, it’s not really up to me to make that kind of call. Second, it really depends on the situation. You can probably find rule books for various Star Wars role-playing games that will give you stats allowing you to compare relative strength. But from an artistic and dramatic standpoint, this kind of question has no “right” answer. Each character has strengths and weaknesses, and they grow and change as their stories progress. On any given day, at any given time, under any given circumstance anyone can win or lose. That’s what dramatic conflict is all about.

Source: Drew Karpyshyn's website FAQ

 

Now, to begin with - I am aware that George Lucas, the creater of Star Wars universe stated the following fact: Palpatine is the most powerful sith lord to ever live. Period. So this sentence alone should technically disqualify all arguments against Vitiate being superior to Sidious. Lucas has the final say in those things.

 

On top of that, let me show you some direct quotes from the official canon sources:

 

"The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed."

-- Death Star, page 76. Emphasis mine.

 

"...Yoda could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."

-- The New Essential Chronology, page ??? (I don't own the book). Emphasis mine.

 

"Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."

-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72.

 

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

 

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

 

 

But hold on...

 

 

When Sidious was labeled as the 'most powerful sith lord ever', Vitiate's character was not even invented yet. You have to realize that the Star Wars universe is constantly expanding - some stuff will get retconned to lesser or greater extent. It is inevitable. As the time passes, some new, far more powerful character than Vitiate might be created. Noone is arguing with that. Actually that is the whole point I am trying to make here.

 

But for the time being, just read "Revan" novel and play through Jedi Knight's whole storyline and after you do those things ask yourself who is really more powerful - Vitiate or Sidious.

 

Here is some very intriguing quote from codex entry related to the Emperor and his ultimate plan:

 

Every decision the Sith Emperor has made for the last millennium has been in the service of one dark goal: the complete annihilation of every living thing in the galaxy. The Emperor's desire is not destruction for its own sake, however. He is not a nihilist. The Emperor intends to feed on the galaxy's extinction and draw that energy into himself, giving him true immortality--and a godlike mastery of the Force.

The Jedi can only speculate on what the Emperor will do if his plan succeeds. Does he intend to preserve any followers, or live on alone? With such unlimited power, could he plant the seeds of life and raise a new galaxy from the old one's ashes?

 

Basically the Emperor wants to exterminate every living being in the galaxy by performing a ritual that will begin on the planet Belsavis. He will consume entire life present on Belsavis and after that, nothing will stop him. Of course Jedi Knight i.e. the player stops him. If Vitiate's plans would succeed and if he would have managed to sustain his ritual by ensuring the death of trillions, he would become as it says in the codex: godlike.

 

After you find out more about the Emperor you realize what kind of creature of pure evil he is. The way he speaks, everything about him is just terrifying and causes chills to go down your spine. I mean, he killed a sith lord when he was like what, twelve years old? When he was an infant, his eyes were filled with terrible blackness and void (Wth?! Seriously, how sick and creepy is that?).

 

He is unlike any being that was ever born, when Lord Scourge who was a Sith Lord took a not even second long glimpse at the Emperor, he cried out like a child.

 

Let me give me you some quotes from the "Revan" novel about Vitiate:

 

"As he spoke, the dark circles of his eyes seemed to fill with a swirling red mist, and for a brief instant the Emperor gave Scourge a glimpse of his true self. Scourge cried out in anguish as the Emperor's mind brushed against his, then he collapsed to the floor, shaking like a child."

"Scourge expected them to search him, or at least instruct him to turn over his weapons. But Yarri and the others simply stood at attention, waiting for him to enter. The fact that they showed no concern over letting an armed Sith Lord speak to the Emperor face-to-face without any kind of preparation was a testament to the Emperor's unfathomable power. "

 

Some of his abilities on top of my head:

 

- Being able to perform most complex sith rituals ever attempted (consuming life of the entire planet - billions of lives beings destroyed in matters of seconds).

 

- Being immortal? "My life spans millennia. Legions have risen to test me. […] My ascendance is inevitable. A day, a year, a millennium—it matters not. I hold the patience of stone and the will of stars. Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same." - The Sith Emperor, to a lone Jedi sent to kill him. Also from what I understand, it is almost impossible to completely kill the Emperor. His essence will always live on, attempting to find another host it can possess. For sure the Emperor got some weakness that can be exploited in order to defeat him, as everyone, but noone knows what it is yet.

 

- Being able to mind control pretty much anyone (though it is possible to resist the Emperor, as an example: Revan being the proof of that).

 

I mean, don't get me wrong: Sidious definitely achieved a lot with his political capabilities, intellect and manipulation skills. But it's hard to be sure that he was more powerful than all other ancient sith lords who ever lived, or even his former master Darth Plagueis. Plagueis discovered the ultimate secret of immortality - Palpatine did not. Hell, Plagueis could even bend midi-chlorians to his own will in order to create life out of nothing - and he probably created the most powerful force user to ever exist. Palpatine knew that he could lose face to face duel with Plagueis so he used his cunning to kill him in his sleep. Also, I find it hard to believe that Palpatine could be even a match for Lord Vitiate. We know very little about the Sith Emperor (the TOR one) and yet it seemes that he is capable of wiping out entire life in the galaxy. I don't think Palpatine comes even close to that, all he gets are some over powered abilities that I do not know where and how he managed to learn/obtain. Sometimes I get the feeling that in Expanded Universe, Palpatine is really a mary sue-like character. Seriously, who can create hyperspace wormholes? Sidious in EU is just absurd. I am sorry to say this but it is true. I love his character but some authors just crossed the line. Yes, Vitiate got some OP abilities in his arsenal as well, but I would say that his back-story allowes us to imagine that he is actually capable of such prowess. A for Palpatine that is not the case, at least for me.

 

You also have to look at this from another angle. Lets say that Sidious could defeat Vitiate in face to face duel (or the other way) but what about other skills? Palpatine managed to transform the Republic into his own Galactic Empire and at the same time do something no sith ever managed - wipe out almost entire jedi order. Vitiate on the other hand also accomplished something to behold. He escaped with handful of morally broke people and over the course of thousand years managed to create the most powerful empire to ever exist. He created entire civilization from literally nothing. It all comes down to your very own definition of power. Power can vary a lot you know... Also, I think it is safe to assume that the Galactic Empire from the original Star Wars movies is based on Vitiate's Empire. I know that in reality it is the other way around, but in our fantasy world The Great Galactic war occured way BEFORE The Galactic Civil war.

 

I tried to keep this article/debate as non-biased as possible, attempting to show you both sides of the picture but as you probably noticed by now, my personal opinion on this matter is as following: Sidious is overrated. There you go, I said it! I know I may get bashed for this. If you want to call me a Vitiate fanboy, feel free to do so. I just think that he is the one who deserves the title of the most powerful sith lord. He is the ultimate ****** - nothing to add here.

 

To hell with being objective! It is impossible to avoid some dose of subjectivism. Just two small things I noticed that I wanted to add to the whole discussion:

 

If Palpatine is so mighty and exceptional duelist, how come he lost to Mace Windu? Yes, I know that Windu is "one of the finest swordsman of the jedi order" and all. But still, Sidious lost. And don't tell me that he would have won without Anakin's interference because it is clearly not what movie portrays.

 

Also, some people say that Palpatine's 'lightning bolts' are the most powerful ones in whole SW universe. It's one of the arguments for Palpatine's superiority over Vitiate. I mean, really? He electrocuted Luke Skywalker with them for like half an hour and the guy still managed to survive. And no, Palpatine was not playing with Luke or attempting to influence his will. He decided to kill Skywalker because he understood that he could not turn him to the dark side, this line kind of confirmed that: "The Emperor: And now, young Skywalker... you will die." (at least that is how I interpreted this scene from RotJ). Anyway, just read what I wrote before about Sith Emperor, (information coming from OFFICIAL GAME CODEX). Could Palpatine really become godlike like Vitiate and create new galaxy from the ashes by himself? Could he wipe out entire life in the galaxy? I don't think those statements are mere hyperbols. I mean, while they never actually happened, Vitiate indeed had potential to perform them and was in fact very close in doing so if it weren't for the invervention of Jedi Knight.

 

And most important of all, was Palpatine really immortal as well as Vitiate? Immortal meaning actually IMMORTAL - from what I know he needed to use clones in order to prelong his life (I don't know a lot about EU post EP6 tbh so I may be wrong about that).

 

I know I am repeating myself but when you read "Revan" novel and play through JK's storyline you get this feeling about the Sith Emperor - he is like this terrible being of pure darkness and void, almost not human but monster. You don't get the same feeling with Palpatine (at least I don't feel this way about his character). Palpatine is just an ordinary person (well, you know what I mean). I am not saying that he is not a powerful sith lord who accomplished A LOT, but to me he is clearly not even half as 'terrifying' as Vitiate.

 

I am pretty sure that it is BioWare's intention to make us feel that Vitiate is in fact the most powerful, evil and dangerous sith/living being to ever exist (including the movies and all post EP6 expanded universe).

 

Still, as I said before - it all comes down to your subjective opinion and the way you interpret canon lore. It's a fantasy world, you can think whatever you want! As far as I am concerned, you may claim ewok that helped Leia (was he called Wicket?) to be more powerful than both Vitiate and Sidious together.

 

But we already had a Sidious vs Vitiate thread so let's leave it at that.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Deviss

[undeadsithdread]

I enjoy reading posts coming from Palpatine fanboys and how they're completely fine with their idol being ridiculously overpowered Dragon Ball Z god that can do anything anytime and how all he has going for him is his absurd power level without any mystical, eerie vibe.

 

I wish I'd never read about EU Palpatine. His portrayal in ep 6 was about right.

 

says the guy who fan of the faction who can kill jedi with their bare hands.

Edited March 5, 2012 by undeadsithdread

[Rayla_Felana]

says the guy who fan of the faction who can kill jedi with their bare hands.

 

Lmao, that was excellent burn right there. *applauds*

[Akento]

Deviss, when the emperor was shocking Luke he was torturing him.

 

He knew Vader would turn on him, and he knew Luke would be a much more fitting apprentice.... Hence why he wanted Luke to strike him down when he was on his throne... And that's why he didn't just initially kill Luke... He knew Luke would be the best apprentice (Afterall, he is the ONLY sith lord to not find an apprentice that could even remotely challenge him after the rule of two was made.)

 

I hate when people beat this dead horse... Palpatine will always be the most powerful, i mean Vitiate or w/e his name is just doesn't compare in my eyes.

 

I know most people don't want to admit that the guy who beat Yoda in a duel. Killed Windu, and Vader. And the guy who overthrew the republic and almost eliminated the jedi order forever is the most powerful sith lord ever. I get that, but has anyone actually tried to look up what he could do?

 

I tell you one thing, I used to hate the emperor. But after getting some knowledge about him, I realized just how powerful he is. And I respect him as the true sith emperor.

 

Although my favorite will always be Exar Kun, the most powerful and the best is Sidious.

[gibmachine]

says the guy who fan of the faction who can kill jedi with their bare hands.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about tbh

Edited March 5, 2012 by gibmachine

[Xenedus]

To answer a few questions:

 

Windu Beat Palpatine in a fight because let's face it Palpatine was an old man and Windu was in his prime.

 

Palpatine didn't immediately kill Luke because Palpatine had made it very clear that he wanted to replace Vader as he viewed vader as a "broken shadow of his former self"

 

Palpatine didn't run at the republic guns blazing because unlike the previous Sith Lords he realized that direct conflict would only strengthen the republic so he instead handed the republic enough rope to hang themselves.

 

And as for his eventual defeats you also have to realize that Luke himself is pretty ****** in his own right.

[GrandMasterOteg]

"Marka Ragnos was powerful, both physically and in the use of the Force,[8] and was considered to be among the most powerful Sith and Force-users in Sith and Jedi history"

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Marka_Ragnos

 

Methinks you should do your research before going off half-cocked. Just to clarify, Marka Ragnos, who the above quote is about, said the Emperor was one of the most powerful Sith he had ever met. Doesn't matter if Palpatine or the Emperor was more powerful, not going to debate that, it should just give you an idea of the power the Emperor has.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine

 

"He was a Dark Lord of the Sith who followed the Rule of Two, an ancient tenet of the Order of the Sith Lords, and was the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history."

 

Palps is the strongest

[ellrochell]

Creating force storms in the shape of wormholes that annihilated an entire fleet.

 

Feeding off of billions of lives at his RESORT.

 

Was a walking Nexus of the Dark Side.

 

Used Battle Meditation on the entire Empire all across the galaxy, for it's entire reign.

 

Could wipe the minds of an entire planet.

 

Could create new force powers on whim.

 

Was the most powerful practitioner of Force Lightning ever.

 

Mastered all seven forms of Lightsaber combat and could use them ambidextrously.

 

Was so powerful that the bodies he inhabited would die because they couldn't handle it.

 

Could use Essence Transfer on a whim.

 

Unbalanced the force just by existing.

 

That's just a quick list.

 

Also, just so you know, Vitiate needed rituals, the power of 200 Sith Lords and other trinkets, as well as using Dromund Kaas as one giant Dark Side nexus, almost a meditation center that would enhance his power, predominantly the Dark Temple, Darth Sidious did all of the things mentioned above with just his own internal power, he didn't need anything to enhance his power.

 

 

yet despite all this get PWNED by windpoo

[Akento]

yet despite all this get PWNED by windpoo

 

Windu was dead the moment he stepped in the room to arrest Palps. Although he got beat in a lightsaber duel... Do you honestly think that Windu would be able to kill Palpatine? He could of easily killed Windu with some force powers. But he was acting to make it seem like he was going to die to sway Anakin to the darkside.

[Lashknife]

Play the Jedi Knight story.