cbauga Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Can yall tell me which stat you go after? I made and bought mods that upped Crit and Surge. Is this the right choice for PVP? Im hearing power is the way to go. Can you explain this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

upzie Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) crit till you get ~30% Surge ~75% This is basicly because of DR on the different stats, where as power does not suffer from DR as far as we know. Power for the rest, thats basicly it, the way the system works atm. Personally I'm @ 29% crit 74% surge 234 power Edited March 4, 2012 by upzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Astarica Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Power versus Crit is a very simple thing for Assassins. Power is always more total DPS but you also can't just pass up a higher chance to kill someone in one hit when they're in Assassinate range. The default distribution on stats on each set is generally sufficient, unless you've a lot of resources to work with. Basically if you go all Crit your Crits won't hit hard enough against strong targets because you don't have Power, but if you go all Power you won't Crit reliably against hard targets unless you use Recklessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Brokor Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 as a darkness assassin i find power pretty "useless". i mean i had 300 power which made me have 60 bonus dmg in melee and another 60 on range. this means that each skill i use will do 60 more dmg correct? maybe 120 if it crts cant be sure tho. i changed my accuracy/power and power/surge enchants for the crt/surge enchantements and i am happier this way. it is my personal experience and i find it suits me better, what with the -5% in bonus dmg and everything from dark charge. also concerning mods i always prefered the ones who gave the msot of willpower and endurance. 15 willpower>15 power anyday. same way 15 willpower>15 crt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Teyler Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 as darkness, power and surge is best. your "burst" is under recklessness which makes crit useless. get up to 3 HD stacks and wait for a energize proc, pop a power trinket and expertise adrenal and use force lighting then shock right after, with some luck you get a energize proc on your next thrash and gets off another 50% crit shock with 4 set bonus. all guaranteed crits. with this "burst" rotation i can do about 12-15k dmg depending on chain shock proccs. often no problem finish it during a stun and jolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Abiza Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 as darkness, power and surge is best. your "burst" is under recklessness which makes crit useless. get up to 3 HD stacks and wait for a energize proc, pop a power trinket and expertise adrenal and use force lighting then shock right after, with some luck you get a energize proc on your next thrash and gets off another 50% crit shock with 4 set bonus. all guaranteed crits. with this "burst" rotation i can do about 12-15k dmg depending on chain shock proccs. often no problem finish it during a stun and jolt. Fully agree with this. If you're going darkness, there's really only one time I try to worry about burst, and that's every 1min15sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Alwaysx Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Power versus Critical Rating: People stating to go Power because of DRs on Crit Rating have no idea what they're talking about. Do the math by setting both formulas equal to each other, using predetermined (as in your own) base stats. I've done it and however arrogant I may come across, I don't plan on feeding people exact optimal stats. Anyone competent enough to use a calculator can figure it out and doing the calculation gives you a better understanding of the game (particularly damage) mechanics. Give a man a fish and you feed... you know the saying. Recklessness (via 90 second bursts) is the only viable reason one should go +370 Power, +0 Critical Rating. However, in the general playstyle that suits every player who doesn't stealth and wait until Recklessness goes off cooldown... Well, do the math, and it will give you the exact value for how much Crit Rating is optimal. It's not hard, and I can guarantee it will surprise the majority of you. Accuracy versus Surge: This depends entirely on how much Accuracy you plan on having. With a base 90%, one should go either 95% (to void a person's base 5% defense chance) or 100% (to void inquisitor/consular's base 10% defense chance). Any more Accuracy should only be considered if you plan on hitting tanks all the time. Then you simply stack as much Surge as possible using the rest of your available Enhancements; you never need to consider how much Surge Rating is optimal. Edited March 5, 2012 by Alwaysx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Abiza Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Power versus Critical Rating: People stating to go Power because of DRs on Crit Rating have no idea what they're talking about. Do the math by setting both formulas equal to each other, using predetermined (as in your own) base stats. I've done it and however arrogant I may come across, I don't plan on feeding people exact optimal stats. Anyone competent enough to use a calculator can figure it out and doing the calculation gives you a better understanding of the game (particularly damage) mechanics. Give a man a fish and you feed... you know the saying. Recklessness (via 90 second bursts) is the only viable reason one should go +370 Power, +0 Critical Rating. However, in the general playstyle that suits every player who doesn't stealth and wait until Recklessness goes off cooldown... Well, do the math, and it will give you the exact value for how much Crit Rating is optimal. It's not hard, and I can guarantee it will surprise the majority of you. Accuracy versus Surge: This depends entirely on how much Accuracy you plan on having. With a base 90%, one should go either 95% (to void a person's base 5% defense chance) or 100% (to void inquisitor/consular's base 10% defense chance). Any more Accuracy should only be considered if you plan on hitting tanks all the time. Then you simply stack as much Surge as possible using the rest of your available Enhancements; you never need to consider how much Surge Rating is optimal. You don't come off as arrogant, you come off as condescending. This thread is to share information, not say "I know the information but I won't share." Edited March 5, 2012 by Abiza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Alwaysx Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) You don't come off as arrogant, you come off as condescending. Arrogant (adj.): 1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights Condescending (adj.): 1. showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority: I don't see much of a difference, but okay. This thread is to share information, not say "I know the information but I won't share." You must have been too offended to understand the message behind the post. But I understand since I admit that I do talk quite pretentiously and I can't really avoid it. Given the amount of spoon-feeding in games, I believe that the truly optimal min/maxing should at least be left to people willing to dish out some elementary math. I don't mind if people PM me asking for help on their computations. I'd rather give hints or nudges in the right direction towards the eager problem-solver than feed a lazy bum the entire solution. But I'll add a bit more info: DPS from Power = .23x. DPS from Critical Rating = 30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((x/max(Level,20))/0.45)) * Average Damage * Critical Multiplier. Use constants (regarding your own stats) to input Average Damage, Critical Multiplier, and max(Level,20). And to be even more precise, you have to input your Power excluding mods/enh, your Crit Rating excluding mods/enh, and include the difference in how 1 point in Power actually makes 1 point in Crit Rating worth more DPS (as it increases your Average Damage, which is directly proportional to the DPS from Critical Rating). It's actually not as hard as it seems to modify the formula to include these factors, if you want to be exact. Another reason why I don't include the exact point of equivalency is because it should be very obvious from the formulas that it heavily depends on one's stats. So even if I provided the exact point of equivalency using the exact BiS gear, it is highly unlikely that the result would be attuned to you (unless of course, you have crit'd Rakata bracers/belt, a modded Blood of Korriban, Energy Surge Device, ...). But sure, I'll take condescending. Edited March 5, 2012 by Alwaysx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Abiza Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I know better than to be offended by people like you. Your post was meaningless to everyone but yourself. My point still stands. However, thank you for sharing that information. As begrudgingly as you gave it up, I'm sure it was hard for you. Us lesser beings are in your debt. Edited March 5, 2012 by Abiza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Alwaysx Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I know better than to be offended by people like you. Your post was meaningless to everyone but yourself. My point still stands. My post is indeed meaningless to the majority of players. However, thank you for sharing that information. As begrudgingly as you gave it up, I'm sure it was hard for you. Us lesser beings are in your debt. Again as a forward, I apologize for how pretentious my posts are. :[ Edited March 5, 2012 by Alwaysx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Astarica Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Err, you don't need a calculator to know Power > Crit in total damage. Use a Power relic and write down the tooltip damage for whatever attack you use the most often, and then compare that to a Surge + Crit relic by writing down your crit % before and after. The difference is not even close. The need for crits is because guys you've problem killing in PvP usually have high defenses too, so you need a big hit to take them out. If you spend all your time fighting Sorcs, you can easily get away having 0% crit since they've no mitigation to speak and you can easily overpower their heals by just straight up DPS + Jolt even if your crit is 0%. But try to overpower a Commando healer with straight up DPS with 0% crit is practically impossible. If anything Darkness is the spec that most needs crits because Force Lightning consumes a charge of Recklessness regardless of the result, and Darkness is most likely to use Force Lightning with Recklessness up. For all other specs, in theory you could have 0% crit, and you don't really care because if you use say Discharge and it doens't crit, no charges are used up. Assuming your Force attacks are all of comparable damage potential, you don't really care too much if Shock crit instead of Discharge as long as you use up all the charges on time. This is not true with Force Lightning. Until you have 40% base crit, you're always losing some of your potential damage by using FL with Recklessness since it uses up a charge of crit but it sure isn't guaranteed to crit every tick until you have 40% crit. Now, this doesn't mean you have to go max crit, but it's something to keep in mind. In practical terms, the difference is small since if you have 35% crit with buff, there's 81.25% that all 4 tick will crit under Recklessness and for most of us that is probably good enough. You don't have to ensure all 4 ticks crit since it'll usually be overkill. But it is still a small loss since you always use up one charge of Recklessness per FL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Alwaysx Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Err, you don't need a calculator to know Power > Crit in total damage. Use a Power relic and write down the tooltip damage for whatever attack you use the most often, and then compare that to a Surge + Crit relic by writing down your crit % before and after. The difference is not even close. You're comparing +380 Power to +235 Crit Rating and +235 Surge Rating. What makes Boundless Ages better is because the Critical Multiplier increase from Forbidden Secrets is only 3.5%. If you comparing +37 Power to +37 Crit Rating, however.. The need for crits is because guys you've problem killing in PvP usually have high defenses too, so you need a big hit to take them out. If you spend all your time fighting Sorcs, you can easily get away having 0% crit since they've no mitigation to speak and you can easily overpower their heals by just straight up DPS + Jolt even if your crit is 0%. But try to overpower a Commando healer with straight up DPS with 0% crit is practically impossible. That makes absolutely no sense. You're talking about sustained DPS, in which the calculation is the most useful in. The only argument against the calculation would be burst via Recklessness, but even then, you can still do the math and figure out that.. If anything Darkness is the spec that most needs crits because Force Lightning consumes a charge of Recklessness regardless of the result, and Darkness is most likely to use Force Lightning with Recklessness up. For all other specs, in theory you could have 0% crit, and you don't really care because if you use say Discharge and it doens't crit, no charges are used up. Assuming your Force attacks are all of comparable damage potential, you don't really care too much if Shock crit instead of Discharge as long as you use up all the charges on time. This is not true with Force Lightning. Until you have 40% base crit, you're always losing some of your potential damage by using FL with Recklessness since it uses up a charge of crit but it sure isn't guaranteed to crit every tick until you have 40% crit. Now, this doesn't mean you have to go max crit, but it's something to keep in mind. In practical terms, the difference is small since if you have 35% crit with buff, there's 81.25% that all 4 tick will crit under Recklessness and for most of us that is probably good enough. You don't have to ensure all 4 ticks crit since it'll usually be overkill. But it is still a small loss since you always use up one charge of Recklessness per FL. Actually, the talents from Deception and Madness specs add a huge amount to the Critical Multipliers (going so far as +30% on primary damage abilities), which makes Critical Rating all the more viable. And again, the only reason against the calculation would be Recklessness, of which you can just do another calculation to factor it in. Edited March 5, 2012 by Alwaysx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Astarica Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Run the result with Rakata adrenals and it's the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Alwaysx Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Run the result with Rakata adrenals and it's the same. I don't think you understand at all.. The only reason the Power adrenal is better is because you're comparing by an increment of 475, in which it is quite clear from the formula that Crit Rating reaches way too high diminishing returns. In fact, as evidence of this, here's the math, assuming 306 Surge Rating (75.45% Critical Multiplier), 800 Average Damage. However, in light of something like an enhancement, which is +37 Power vs + 37 Critical Rating, the numbers are much much closer. A simple calculation makes it very clear which is the winner.. Then you just have to adjust for exactly how many +37 Power's and +37 Critical Rating's provides the most DPS. Edited March 5, 2012 by Alwaysx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

magipkup Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Dear Alwaysx, I took great interest in your calculation and thank you for let me know that website like wolframalpha exist. However, I still do not understand why the formula look like that. I understand that your idea is to let right side of equation as DPS gain from power, which is as simple as 475*0.23. On left side is DPS gain from critical rating. My question is that why you have to go as far as using 475-X in first part and minus with second part which use only x. is it possible to use only this formula (30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^(((x)/50)/0.45))/100*800*.7545=.23*475 to find critical rating X which equivalence to power rating of 475 (In this formula x is 613, which mean power is by far greater that critical rating in term of dps gain at 800 weapon damage and 75.45% surge rating). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Alwaysx Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Dear Alwaysx, I took great interest in your calculation and thank you for let me know that website like wolframalpha exist. However, I still do not understand why the formula look like that. I understand that your idea is to let right side of equation as DPS gain from power, which is as simple as 475*0.23. On left side is DPS gain from critical rating. My question is that why you have to go as far as using 475-X in first part and minus with second part which use only x. I apologize for not explaining that calculation. The calculation was to determine at what base Critical Rating the two Rakata Adrenals would offer the same DPS. By base Critical Rating, I mean the amount of Critical Rating your character has gained purely from gear/consumables that aren't the Adrenal. is it possible to use only this formula (30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^(((x)/50)/0.45))/100*800*.7545=.23*475 to find critical rating X which equivalence to power rating of 475 (In this formula x is 613, which mean power is by far greater that critical rating in term of dps gain at 800 weapon damage and 75.45% surge rating). For your method/equation, the problem is in the diminishing returns with Critical Rating. Your current equation calculates the Critical Rating starting with 0 DRs, but a normal character would have more than 0 Critical Rating to start with. Say, for example, that the base Critical Rating is 300; that is, your character has 300 Critical Rating from gear/stims. In order to factor this into the equation, you need to include the fact that the Rakata Critical Adrenal is starting with DRs from 300 Critical Rating. So you would do something like: (30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^(((x+300)/50)/0.45))/100*800*.7545=.23*475 Okay, so now you're starting your DRs at 300 instead of 0. But now you're sort of cheating yourself by giving the variable x a 'boost', if you will; you just gave it 300 Critical Rating. So to take away that 'boost', you'd have to subtract it in the end. Thus, the formula becomes: ( (30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^(((x+300)/50)/0.45))-(30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^(((300)/50)/0.45)) )/100*800*.7545=.23*475 Hope that makes sense. Edited March 5, 2012 by Alwaysx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

wtfnonamefree Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Your formulas of CritvPower comparison seem to be oblivious of our autocrits in terms of their assumed frequency and consequential impact. As they significantly shift the sweet spot towards Power, I am surprised that you find your flawed reasoning 'obvious'. edit: This, like e.g. the set boni choice, is one of the situations where general recommendations are followed by a 'might be different depending on your class'. Since we are in the Assassin's class forum your calculations should be adjusted to said classes' mechanics. Otherwise the calculation's results (better, the conclusions drawn from them) are false. Edited March 5, 2012 by wtfnonamefree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Mrdiguinn Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Your formulas of CritvPower comparison seem to be oblivious of our autocrits in terms of their assumed frequency and consequential impact. As they significantly shift the sweet spot towards Power, I am surprised that you find your flawed reasoning 'obvious'. edit: This, like e.g. the set boni choice, is one of the situations where general recommendations are followed by a 'might be different depending on your class'. Since we are in the Assassin's class forum your calculations should be adjusted to said classes' mechanics. Otherwise the calculation's results (better, the conclusions drawn from them) are false. I don't see how you thought that would make any sense? The dude insisting on his formulas is not using "situational" math, he is simply doing the math based on the DR and what not of both Power (that has no DR) and Crit (that has DR) Now to be honest I didn't take my time at all to read what he said because I probably know where he's trying to go but I did see there that he bases himself from raw stats and is applying that with a character with some Crit and some power and then taking his result. Now, I don't see how you refuted his theory with any logic at all so I ask you again I don't see how you thought that would make any sense? Edited March 5, 2012 by Mrdiguinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

wtfnonamefree Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Short answer - when evaluating the stat weight of Crit vs Power, it is not only the sweet spot in relation to both DRs to think about, it is about what you gain by the stats in terms of actual damage. Since a significant portion of our damage does auto crit, this influences the decision in laying out your stat budget between Crit and Power. A calculation of the DRs and raw gains via the two stats does not answer the question 'what stats to go for when gearing?', like this: Can yall tell me which stat you go after? I made and bought mods that upped Crit and Surge. Is this the right choice for PVP? Im hearing power is the way to go. Can you explain this? To which Always reluctantly responded with his 'obvious' calculations. which didn't take the nature of the Assassin's gameplay (i.e. frequent autocrits devaluating Crit compared to Power) into account. That flaw in the reasoning is what I wanted to point out. edit: The dude insisting on his formulas is not using "situational" math, he is simply doing the math based on the DR and what not of both Power (that has no DR) and Crit (that has DR) The math isn't really helpful if it ignores gameplay realities, which influence its outcome in relation to the original question it tries to answer. Also, you might want to take some time to get familiar with the Power stat's specific nature: The first thing to keep in mind is that both Crit and Surge have hard diminishing returns, whereas Power has a "soft" diminishing return. The best range to keep Crit in is the 200-400 range. This is where the gains are still fairly linear and you get the most increase from the smallest investment. Power increases are purely linear. Going from 0 power to 50 power will net you a 11.50 increase in bonus damage, and going from 500 to 550 will net you a 11.50 increase in damage. The reason I say above that there is a soft diminishing return is that the percentage increase of 11.50 damage when you already have 115 bonus damage isn't as great as an 11.5 increase when you have 0 bonus damage. Power increases do not have the same effect to skills across the board! Just because you increased your power by 50 does not mean that all of your attacks will suddenly start dealing 11.5 damage more. Some will deal 5 more, others will deal 50 more. Keep that in mind! Some skills are not as affected by power as others. (source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=242994) Now to be honest I didn't take my time at all to read what he said because I probably know where he's trying to go but I did see there that he bases himself from raw stats and is applying that with a character with some Crit and some power and then taking his result. Maybe this isn't the best approach to joining a discussion... Edited March 5, 2012 by wtfnonamefree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Alwaysx Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Short answer - when evaluating the stat weight of Crit vs Power, it is not only the sweet spot in relation to both DRs to think about, it is about what you gain by the stats in terms of actual damage. Since a significant portion of our damage does auto crit, this influences the decision in laying out your stat budget between Crit and Power. A calculation of the DRs and raw gains via the two stats does not answer the question 'what stats to go for when gearing?', like this: As I had pointed out previously, the only argument against a 'simple' calculation would be Recklessness. That is, the calculation bases itself off of optimal sustained DPS rather than optimal burst damage. As far as I can recall, the only two talents/abilities that raise the critical chance ('auto-crits' by your term) would be Recklessness and Energize (3rd Tier Darkness talent). Thus, these two abilities/talents would in fact make Power more vital in the calculation. However, there too are a bunch of talents that make Critical Rating more viable. Namely (this may not be all-inclusive), Induction, Crackling Blasts (Deception); Exploitive Strikes, Parasitism, Claws of Decay, Creeping Death (Madness). Some of these are easier to input into the calculation than others. As an example, to factor in Creeping Death, you need only toss a multiplier of 1.3 to the Critical Rating DPS when comparing it using the Average Damage coming from Force. To further analyze this 'sustained' vs 'burst' DPS topic, let's consider the abilities/talents that help out Power. Now it seems to me that if you're planning on optimizing burst damage over more damage in the long run (and by long run, I mean any fight longer than maybe 5 seconds), then you shouldn't be going down to get Energize to begin with. You'd probably go with Deception and in the off-chance, maybe Madness. But in these two specs, you're now considering whether the talents with synergy towards Critical Rating are 'worth more' than Recklessness, the only ability that synergizes with Power. So now the question is: Does the increase in DPS by using the optimal stats as given by the calculation along with the multipliers and perks from the above talents justify its use over Recklessness? Say whatever you want by intuition. But now, it should be much easier to calculate at what point in time the 'sustained DPS' does more damage than going 'burst damage.' Here’s a hint: At most, 370 Power (the most given from mods/enhs) provides 370*.23=85.1 DPS (excluding Unnatural Might, which includes a 1.05 multiplier). After calculating optimal DPS (from the calculation I’ve been hinting at previously), find how many seconds it will take for the ‘optimal DPS’ to reach 85.1*3 more DPS than choosing 370 Power. This will tell you exactly how much burst you’re losing when popping Recklessness. Then compare that to the differences in the ‘sustained DPS’ to make a fair judgment. Assuming you have the numbers correctly, the choice becomes quite clear. Edited March 5, 2012 by Alwaysx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

underpantsgnomes Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 What i'm getting from all this is I should just suck it up and do the math myself. Even though I swore off MATLAB after quitting WOW. Oh well. I'd rather know for sure than listen to people who probably don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Narenekapcazic Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 But I'll add a bit more info: DPS from Power = .23x. DPS from Critical Rating = 30*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^((x/max(Level,20))/0.45)) * Average Damage * Critical Multiplier. Your dps from power is wrong pure and simple. Reason being your powers influence on dps is affected by your crit and surge rating and you never have 0 in either of these stats when wearing gear. As a result your calculation of dps increase from power is low. Your DPS calculation for crit takes into account your average damage and crit multiplier so therefore takes into account the power you already have along with surge. As a result you have one formula which takes into account only one stat, another which takes into account all 3.. this is deliberately biasing the result towards crit. Furthermore you state the calcs should be done without any enhancements. This again is a deliberately artificial situation designed to bias the result one way or another, as you'll never in a real world situation have no enhancements. You also as a result do not take into account diminishing returns as you'll always be adding crit at a high return point for point. It's pretty obvious that due to diminishing returns there will be a point where power > crit in terms of adding to your dps. It's the same in all games as the base mechanics are always the same, the numbers might change but the base mechanics of dps = base hit modified by crit and crit modifier in SWToR are basically the same as WoW and thats been proven many many times over. So while your crit is low you are right that crit > power but in the real world it's never that black and white Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Alwaysx Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Reason being your powers influence on dps is affected by your crit and surge rating and you never have 0 in either of these stats when wearing gear. As a result your calculation of dps increase from power is low.All I had written were the bare essentials to a proper formula and I never claimed it was the right one. As with the many factors I stated that one should include in the formula, this is one of them. Your DPS calculation for crit takes into account your average damage and crit multiplier so therefore takes into account the power you already have along with surge. As a result you have one formula which takes into account only one stat, another which takes into account all 3.. this is deliberately biasing the result towards crit. Furthermore you state the calcs should be done without any enhancements. This again is a deliberately artificial situation designed to bias the result one way or another, as you'll never in a real world situation have no enhancements. ..I'm saying that calculations should not be done without any enhancements because I am under the assumption that you are trying to figure out which enhancements to use to begin with. (Enhancements & Mods being the only two methods of customizing your gear towards Power/Crit.) That way, you don't deal with incorporating any Power into your Average Damage that wouldn't be there if you went full Crit, i.e. +370 Crit Rating from the 5 mods and 5 enhancements. Please read more carefully. You also as a result do not take into account diminishing returns as you'll always be adding crit at a high return point for point. It's pretty obvious that due to diminishing returns there will be a point where power > crit in terms of adding to your dps. It's the same in all games as the base mechanics are always the same, the numbers might change but the base mechanics of dps = base hit modified by crit and crit modifier in SWToR are basically the same as WoW and thats been proven many many times over. I never said that the formula was absolutely precise. I simply said that the formatting is on the right track for people to modify. In fact, I even explain HOW to incorporate diminishing returns assuming a base amount of Crit Rating when someone asked me in this very thread.. So while your crit is low you are right that crit > power but in the real world it's never that black and white This is very simple math. It is quite black-and-white. Things that can't be computed purely through numbers would be stuff like "How much survivability do you need?", "Should I sacrifice X Endurance for Y Willpower?", anything that delves into playstyle and not purely through damage formulas. And as a note, never have I said that Crit Rating > Power in all circumstances, or anything similar. I simply said that the results from a simple calculation would surprise the majority of you who just make predictions based off a graph. Edited March 6, 2012 by Alwaysx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Boomsies Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I haven't run the calculation to get the exact optimal numbers but I did to some spreadsheet math and even when I was at 413 crit and could either take it to 450 or take power up another 37, crit still edged out power. The real reason just seems to be that the higher damage the attack does the less an extra .23x matters. Yes power adds to the base damage but so does your main stat and your force/tech power for some abilities. What ends up happening is the fact that crit gets to work off of those large average damages makes it a better increase then just a straight .23x. Based on the my character page, the 37 crit that point was adding an extra .88% or .0088 change to crit and still surpassed 37 power on all my non-crit attacks that average ~2k liek shock and discharge. I admit I could be missing a key variable int he analysis but I did take into account not having the power in when working up average damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

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