Issues ignored in beta.

[BelialSempai]

There is a lot of talk on the forums of issues that were noticed and pointed out by the users during beta that the dev's have seemingly ignored.

 

Rumors have spread that the warnings of these testers were also ignored.

 

As someone who only had access to the beta forums for a very limited amount of time, I was wondering if anyone could give specifics on these issues and which ones are still not being addressed.

 

This is not a post of my doubt of such issues existing, just me hoping to get them in one place as a reference.

[AndasKastor]

Not to sound flip or defend either side - every MMO that I have seen that has ever launched has topics about items/bugs that were ignored in beta (and the posts are generally correct).

[BelialSempai]

Not to sound flip or defend either side - every MMO that I have seen that has ever launched has topics about items/bugs that were ignored in beta (and the posts are generally correct).

 

I agree, just curious as to what the specific ones for this one were.

[UberRod]

And to be fair by the time a game gets to beta it is too late to make big changes. It's more for bug fixes and minor tweaks.

 

Removing all GTN kiosks from every planet except homeworld and the space station was tragic in my opinion.

 

So a list of smaller items that could actually have been done in beta is nice. Expecting big changes in beta is foolish.

[Cuspin]

If you think they ignored any issues in beta you are silly.

 

Every issue brought up was investigated, verified and then put on a list of priorities.

 

They got the game in a working state for almost all the projected users.

 

They are still working on the game and will for a very long time as an MMO is always a work in progress.

 

Nothing was ignored. Just because a dev did not comment about every single issue brought up does not mean it is not on a list somwhere and will be addressed at some time.

 

These forums could really use more drama so please keep posting.

[Andryah]

Not to sound flip or defend either side - every MMO that I have seen that has ever launched has topics about items/bugs that were ignored in beta (and the posts are generally correct).

 

Yep.

 

It's also one sided in that it the negative detractors NEVER take the time to fairly comment about things that were in fact found/reported/fixed in Beta.

 

Subjective negative armchair smear journalism in action is what it is. And it's hit every MMO every released. Means nothing.

[Daelenn]

Coming from someone that was in the Beta for many, many months and saw a ton of different builds.. I think that overall they listened to what we had to say and they did a fair job at squashing most of the bugs.

 

There were definitely some points of major contention though and things that never got addressed. Removing Force Pull from Guard/Jugg and giving it to Shadow/Assassin was a big argument for awhile. They also had a TON of feedback about how poor the synergy was for Guardian/Juggernaut tanking abilities/skills felt compared to other tanks. We were told some tweaks were coming before the end of Beta and yet we're still waiting on that.

 

There were a lot of bug issues with the end-game operations, and they're still having issues to this day. One of the biggest issues is that most of the end-game content never got fully tested since they always had major issues with generating max level characters to test it. Even when they made some "high level" characters for testers, they were usually in the low 40s and had to start on Belsavis. The "LFG" options in the game were also incredibly lackluster and nothing was tweaked about that either.

 

To be fair though, some people also expected the impossible, such as completely changing Space Combat into Tie Fighter or X-Wing simulation style. Or they said it should be removed completely from launch until something better was made.

 

Personally, some of the things I miss the most that were removed would be the match color to chest option (coming back in 1.2 finally), the old modification system from July, the ability to trade up planetary commendations, GTN terminals and crew skill trainers on every planet and titles for all of the planet arc mission chains.

 

Overall Beta went well and our feedback was heard. If I had to pick out the bigger issues though, I think the lack of character creation options, UI customization, a better LFG method and tools, lackluster guild controls and the lack of proper testing for end-game were the major problems. Not surprisingly, these are also some of the biggest points people cite for quitting or what they dislike about the retail game.

[Andryah]

Coming from someone that was in the Beta for many, many months and saw a ton of different builds.. I think that overall they listened to what we had to say and they did a fair job at squashing most of the bugs.

 

There were definitely some points of major contention though and things that never got addressed. Removing Force Pull from Guard/Jugg and giving it to Shadow/Assassin was a big argument for awhile. They also had a TON of feedback about how poor the synergy was for Guardian/Juggernaut tanking abilities/skills felt compared to other tanks. We were told some tweaks were coming before the end of Beta and yet we're still waiting on that.

 

There were a lot of bug issues with the end-game operations, and they're still having issues to this day. One of the biggest issues is that most of the end-game content never got fully tested since they always had major issues with generating max level characters to test it. Even when they made some "high level" characters for testers, they were usually in the low 40s and had to start on Belsavis. The "LFG" options in the game were also incredibly lackluster and nothing was tweaked about that either.

 

To be fair though, some people also expected the impossible, such as completely changing Space Combat into Tie Fighter or X-Wing simulation style. Or they said it should be removed completely from launch until something better was made.

 

Personally, some of the things I miss the most that were removed would be the match color to chest option (coming back in 1.2 finally), the old modification system from July, the ability to trade up planetary commendations, GTN terminals and crew skill trainers on every planet and titles for all of the planet arc mission chains.

 

Overall Beta went well and our feedback was heard. If I had to pick out the bigger issues though, I think the lack of character creation options, UI customization, a better LFG method and tools, lackluster guild controls and the lack of proper testing for end-game were the major problems. Not surprisingly, these are also some of the biggest points people cite for quitting or what they dislike about the retail game.

 

I very much appreciate you taking time to post an objective and fairly detailed account of your impressions.

[UberRod]

Personally, some of the things I miss the most that were removed would be the match color to chest option (coming back in 1.2 finally), the old modification system from July, the ability to trade up planetary commendations, GTN terminals and crew skill trainers on every planet and titles for all of the planet arc mission chains.

 

I had almost forgotten about the ability to convert commendations. I used that all the time in beta. It was useful. Now I have tons of commendations I can't use because I have outleveled them.

 

This and removing the GTN was a trend of removing good quality of life features than I find distressing in this game.

Edited March 4, 2012 by UberRod

[Andryah]

I had almost forgotten about the ability to convert commendations. I used that all the time in beta. It was useful. Now I have tons of commendations I can't use because I have outleveled them.

 

Well, mods are bind on use so you can buy mods for alts OR you can buy mods and sell them on the GTN. Blue mods are pretty popular if you price them reasonably.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Andryah

[Daelenn]

I'd like to add as well, that I was personally getting tired of being in such a long Beta. I really just wanted the game to come out already so I could play it with my friends and not have to start over again and again every 6 weeks. It sucked not getting to play with friends or even be allowed to talk about it since I was under NDA from June until Black Friday at the end of Nov.

 

Having said that though, I really feel like the game could have used another 2-3 months for more polish and additions like the fixed match color to chest, customizable UI and better LFG tools at the very least.

 

What a lot of people fail to realize however, is that these games are more than just entertainment for us. These are products and services created by companies that are publicly traded entities and have to answer to share holders. Had they planned to release the game on Dec 20th, 2011, and then decided to delay that another 3 months in the 11th hour, there would have been series repercussions.

 

Look at Blizzard. They just delayed Diablo III yet again, and because of that their quarterly projections were lowered, which in turn hurts their stock. Now this isn't the ONLY reason, but it was definitely one of the reason why they just laid off 600 people. You can say what you want about Blizzard and World of Warcraft, but that's 600 human beings that just had their lives damaged.

 

SWTOR definitely needs improvement, it's definitely not perfect. The game was also definitely good enough to be released when it was however. It had a ton of content and was pretty well polished. At some point you have to stop adding more and release the game, they were at that point. They've also been very aggressive with their patching and updating of game content. That says a lot to me, and I plan on being here a long time.

[Malefactor]

If you think they ignored any issues in beta you are silly.

 

Every issue brought up was investigated, verified and then put on a list of priorities.

 

They got the game in a working state for almost all the projected users.

 

They are still working on the game and will for a very long time as an MMO is always a work in progress.

 

Nothing was ignored. Just because a dev did not comment about every single issue brought up does not mean it is not on a list somwhere and will be addressed at some time.

 

These forums could really use more drama so please keep posting.

 

^Pretty much this.

 

Being invited to beta is not an invitation to join the dev team and have all of one's brilliant ideas implemented*, it's meant to test the game "as is" and report bugs/issues. These issues, as the poster quoted pointed out, are then prioritized and worked on (investigated, reproduced and then fixed, hopefully without causing issues elsewhere, tested in-house, then tested in beta). Sometimes a problem becomes more apparent or more widespread (and easier to track down, reproduce and then fix) in a live environment, when you have hundreds of thousands or millions of players with their hundreds of thousands of different hardware setups as opposed to the few thousand in a typical closed beta.

 

*Suggestions are most likely welcome, and on very rare occasions a good idea may be implemented if it easy to do and won't take up too much time/manpower from working on the already existing game. Suggestions that would require entire reworking of systems or creation from scratch have almost zero chance of being implemented when the game is in a beta state, a good example of this is the space combat mini-game, a lot of people (myself included) would like to one day see a more fleshed out, free roam 3d space game added to SW:TOR, but demanding and expecting it to be implemented in beta is totally unrealistic.

[Aielchief]

This is minor in the grand scheme of things, but one of the first bugs I encountered in the only beta I was in (stress test) was the "Hey my companion is alive but he keeps lying down and teleporting if he needs to move!" bug. When I encountered this again last night, even though I'm convinced I've seen it in the patch notes, it definitely hurt my experience.

 

Did they fix a lot of stuff that was wrong in beta? Yup, although some bugs like unclickable nodes made it into release. But that's the point of a beta.

[Merex]

I don't think things were ignored, but rather prioritized because EA was rushing Bioware to release the game in time for Christmas. Everything post launch so far has been nothing but Bioware trying their best to clean up the mess EA made for them through poor management decisions.

[Kerraii]

When you honestly look at the majority of game breaking issues in Beta, Many have been solved.

 

There truly in NO Game Breaking Issues atm. There is the Itemization problem with Bosses in hard and Nightmare mode FP and Ops...but those are not game breaking.

 

Story quest have been fixed, Video cut scenes have been fixed, at least to the point of not being Game Breaking.

 

Most complaints are from the PvP side and how there is a true lack of it and no true motivation to progress...this is a problem of it being too easy to level Valor and gain the PvP gear when the game released...they have fixed that and will be fixing that even more to bring it in line, as far as gains in valor and gear. The actual PvP is still another issue that they are constantly working on..

 

The PvE issues all revolve around quests being too easy, flashpoints being too easy and Operations being just too much the same fight, just a harder hitting Boss.

Example, No one does Nightmare mode other then to learn the mechanics of survival...The exact same gear drops, just the removal of lower end gear has been reduced.

 

In looking at Beta, there is really nothing more they have to do to make the game better...

What they MUST do is not repeat mistakes when releasing future content and thus giving the feeling that they just can not perform and learn from past mistakes.

[Illidur]

Coming from someone that was in the Beta for many, many months and saw a ton of different builds.. I think that overall they listened to what we had to say and they did a fair job at squashing most of the bugs.

 

There were definitely some points of major contention though and things that never got addressed. Removing Force Pull from Guard/Jugg and giving it to Shadow/Assassin was a big argument for awhile. They also had a TON of feedback about how poor the synergy was for Guardian/Juggernaut tanking abilities/skills felt compared to other tanks. We were told some tweaks were coming before the end of Beta and yet we're still waiting on that.

 

There were a lot of bug issues with the end-game operations, and they're still having issues to this day. One of the biggest issues is that most of the end-game content never got fully tested since they always had major issues with generating max level characters to test it. Even when they made some "high level" characters for testers, they were usually in the low 40s and had to start on Belsavis. The "LFG" options in the game were also incredibly lackluster and nothing was tweaked about that either.

 

To be fair though, some people also expected the impossible, such as completely changing Space Combat into Tie Fighter or X-Wing simulation style. Or they said it should be removed completely from launch until something better was made.

 

Personally, some of the things I miss the most that were removed would be the match color to chest option (coming back in 1.2 finally), the old modification system from July, the ability to trade up planetary commendations, GTN terminals and crew skill trainers on every planet and titles for all of the planet arc mission chains.

 

Overall Beta went well and our feedback was heard. If I had to pick out the bigger issues though, I think the lack of character creation options, UI customization, a better LFG method and tools, lackluster guild controls and the lack of proper testing for end-game were the major problems. Not surprisingly, these are also some of the biggest points people cite for quitting or what they dislike about the retail game.

 

 

 

What beta group did you test with? I tested with Squad 238. I started in late September of 2011. From my experience, yes some bugs did get fixed and addressed. Some cosmetic and all the major ones...such as falling through a planet or not being able to get a female bounty hunter off Hutta.

 

But mostly I felt like we were ignored. When 'match to chest piece' was removed, we begged them to bring it back all the way to launch. Yes,it finally is making its way back to the game but a large part of me feels that this is only in hopes of stemming the tide of disappointment and subscription loss. How many armor skins did we loose before launch? When they removed scores of pvp gear for more than just lvls 20, 40 and 50, waves of testers begged for them back. Color crystal restrictions? More options with the game graphics. At first there were almost the right amount (imo) during my early beta time. But again, as new builds were coming out, we saw less and less of them.

 

There will always be issues with imbalance and people complaining over skill changes, talent tree changes and the like. But again it seemed that every one that was made during beta(and still going on) has been decried by testers and players. Honestly its really obvious which class the devs liked. If you can show me any class other than Sith Inquisitor that can put out as much dmg, cc and all around utility, Id love to know. This goes with story as well. Even with the Jedi Con. mirror.

 

But Im getting off subject. Ultimately, no as a beta tester I dont feel that we were listened to, beyond what the devs knew they HAD to fix so the game at least appeared as playable.

[Daelenn]

What beta group did you test with? I tested with Squad 238. I started in late September of 2011. From my experience, yes some bugs did get fixed and addressed. Some cosmetic and all the major ones...such as falling through a planet or not being able to get a female bounty hunter off Hutta.

 

But mostly I felt like we were ignored. When 'match to chest piece' was removed, we begged them to bring it back all the way to launch. Yes,it finally is making its way back to the game but a large part of me feels that this is only in hopes of stemming the tide of disappointment and subscription loss. How many armor skins did we loose before launch? When they removed scores of pvp gear for more than just lvls 20, 40 and 50, waves of testers begged for them back. Color crystal restrictions? More options with the game graphics. At first there were almost the right amount (imo) during my early beta time. But again, as new builds were coming out, we saw less and less of them.

 

There will always be issues with imbalance and people complaining over skill changes, talent tree changes and the like. But again it seemed that every one that was made during beta(and still going on) has been decried by testers and players. Honestly its really obvious which class the devs liked. If you can show me any class other than Sith Inquisitor that can put out as much dmg, cc and all around utility, Id love to know. This goes with story as well. Even with the Jedi Con. mirror.

 

But Im getting off subject. Ultimately, no as a beta tester I dont feel that we were listened to, beyond what the devs knew they HAD to fix so the game at least appeared as playable.

 

Think I was in Squad 238 as well, found an old badge image from it.

 

I definitely agree that a lot of the fluff type of content was ignored when we constantly complained that more and more was removed or restricted. I know the match color system was pulled because they DID have some issues with it that needed to be fixed, but I don't see why it wasn't back in by launch.

 

The color crystal thing really boggles my mind as well. In earlier stages of Beta there were plenty of options from a lower level, yet by retail almost everything that wasn't blue, green, red or yellow had been yanked from the game or relegated to end game only. I remember just before release a dev posted that there were 'dozens and dozens' of colors we haven't found yet.

 

One of the biggest things that irks me coming from beta to retail was just how much fluff was removed from the game. A ton of speeders were removed, like half of the titles in the game, match color to chest, a robust modification system, more color crystals that could be had before lvl50, a couple of pets you could buy, quality of life things like GTN and trainers on every planet, etc.

 

This is probably one of the only closed beta games I tested that actually removed more fluff from the game before release than adding it in. I still don't feel 100% ignored however. By the time they had more testers in September, the devs were posting less and less, because there were just too many testers at that point and every dev post was being leaked within minutes.

 

I was also in the Beta for Final Fantasy XIV. If you really want to know what it feels like to be ignored by developers, you should have been there instead. Square Enix is still paying the price for completely ignoring the screams of every beta tester there. They literally did release and unfinished and horrible game and I honestly don't know if they will ever recover from it.

[RickRedOne]

What beta group did you test with? I tested with Squad 238. I started in late September of 2011. From my experience, yes some bugs did get fixed and addressed. Some cosmetic and all the major ones...such as falling through a planet or not being able to get a female bounty hunter off Hutta.

 

But mostly I felt like we were ignored. When 'match to chest piece' was removed, we begged them to bring it back all the way to launch. Yes,it finally is making its way back to the game but a large part of me feels that this is only in hopes of stemming the tide of disappointment and subscription loss. How many armor skins did we loose before launch? When they removed scores of pvp gear for more than just lvls 20, 40 and 50, waves of testers begged for them back. Color crystal restrictions? More options with the game graphics. At first there were almost the right amount (imo) during my early beta time. But again, as new builds were coming out, we saw less and less of them.

 

There will always be issues with imbalance and people complaining over skill changes, talent tree changes and the like. But again it seemed that every one that was made during beta(and still going on) has been decried by testers and players. Honestly its really obvious which class the devs liked. If you can show me any class other than Sith Inquisitor that can put out as much dmg, cc and all around utility, Id love to know. This goes with story as well. Even with the Jedi Con. mirror.

 

But Im getting off subject. Ultimately, no as a beta tester I dont feel that we were listened to, beyond what the devs knew they HAD to fix so the game at least appeared as playable.

 

None of these things were bugs, they were decisions that some people didn't like. And those inputs were looked at and not ignored but not followed, but that can and is being changed on some things.

 

Some things were removed because of back end problems, (match to chest piece), and were continued to be worked on till fixed.

 

In response to the Sith Inquisitor putting out so much damage. They better because it doesn't take many hits for them to die (they are way to squishy).

[BOLTgamer]

I was in closed beta for two months (October beta) and most the issues we have no were in beta, fact is BioWare doesn't have the best debugging team or people are to lazy to report the bug ingame, instead they complain on the forums which isn't as helpful as reporting it. Edited March 4, 2012 by BOLTgamer

[RickRedOne]

I was in closed beta for two months (October beta) and most the issues we have now were in beta

 

Could you elaborate on what some of these issues are?

 

Are you talking about design decisions or bugs?

[Mannic]

The UI was a sore-point with Beta testers from the moment the beta released. They changed maybe three things about it.

 

Several missing features were noted immediately that beta testers pointed out but didn't harp on because NO ONE thought Bioware would be stupid enough to exclude them on release. Other things were changed not long before release, like the removal of the combat log, and while beta testers hated the changes immediately, Bioware obviously had already made up their minds (for example, more strong mobs and ludicrously hard hitting ranged mobs everywhere.)

[Andryah]

The UI was a sore-point with Beta testers from the moment the beta released. They changed maybe three things about it.

 

Several missing features were noted immediately that beta testers pointed out but didn't harp on because NO ONE thought Bioware would be stupid enough to exclude them on release. Other things were changed not long before release, like the removal of the combat log, and while beta testers hated the changes immediately, Bioware obviously had already made up their minds (for example, more strong mobs and ludicrously hard hitting ranged mobs everywhere.)

 

All I can say is...... different day, same Mannic.

[Rahl_Windsong]

One bug that I know existed in beta was the one for the class quest for the IA classes which ends Chapter 1 called Defender of the Empire.

 

 

There are really horrible targeting issues on the boss (Darth Jadus) of this quest and when your companion gets close to him it is very difficult to target your companion to cast a heal on him/her.

 

 

This was known in beta and still is not fixed, I have been checking every patch note and the only thing I have seen that was close to this is the same quest for the Smuggler classes, "The Lightspring" they did "fix" and really there was nothing wrong with that quest it was just difficult because you had to learn to use all of your abilities, which I thought was the whole purpose of the quest.

 

Here is the fix they put in for The Lightspring.....

 

From patch 1.1.2 2/7/2012

 

•The Lightspring: The toughness of Vaverone Zare and Nariel Pridence has been decreased. This mission can no longer be failed.

 

So as you can see by the "fix" all they did was give that quest the "easy button" fix which in my oppinion is the biggest problem with SWTOR, it is already WAY TO EASY!

[Andryah]

I think that some of the beta testers that complain about "issues" not being fixed, are actually complaining about "features" that bioware has chosen not to modify for the time being (if ever)

 

Just because someone bug reports something in beta, does not mean it is actually a bug/issue and that it actually needs to be changed. It's not a bug/issue because a player bug reports it, it's a bug/issue because a player bug reports it and Bioware evaluates it and agrees it is a bug/issue and puts it on it's list of things to address/fix.

 

I'm not saying there were not bugs/issues in beta, nor that bugs/issues did not escape beta and enter live release. I am simply pointing out that some people confuse their "wishes/desires/demands" for certain play experience with "bugs/issues" in the context of Bioware design and release of the games feature set.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Andryah

[RickRedOne]

The UI was a sore-point with Beta testers from the moment the beta released. They changed maybe three things about it.

And changes are coming, but of course you could have fixed them overnight

 

Several missing features were noted immediately that beta testers pointed out but didn't harp on because NO ONE thought Bioware would be stupid enough to exclude them on release.

What kind of features? LFG? Cross-server LFG? Guild Banks? These things are being worked on, or were design decisions to put off till later.

Other things were changed not long before release, like the removal of the combat log,

This was removed due to technical issues, and will be coming back.

and while beta testers hated the changes immediately, Bioware obviously had already made up their minds (for example, more strong mobs and ludicrously hard hitting ranged mobs everywhere.)

Hard Hitting Mobs??? People are flying though content if anything there should be stronger mobs in places. There are many complaints about how easy the content is.