Talizzar Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 BW you need to look at this right away. It gets worse and worse each day and pretty soon the pubs are just going to say enough is enough. With a 3:1 population advantage the imps are getting far more valor per kill than the pubs as there is no way 10 or 11 pubs can keep objectives and attempt to kill the horde. I did a quick inspection of the players in a pug and the gear the pubs were wearing was frightening. I have no clue how you intend to have ranked WZ's as there are many more times the number of BM IMPS than Pubs. I guess the imps will just wait forever to get a queue and then they will quit too. BW you created this mess I suggest you figure out a solution very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stenrik Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Got any suggestions? I agree it sucks but fail to see a good, fair way they could go about it. Except giving more valor per Republic kill according to some function of the imp/rep ratio maybe? We'd still get a lot of whiners from that one though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstout Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 That is just a server issue. On The Swiftsure the Repubs win most warfronts at lvl 50. Plus you don't need full BM to be good at PvP, you just need a few pieces mixed in with PvE stuff to optimize your toon. It takes about 4 days playtime to get to 50, reroll to a different server if yours is so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaplemouton Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 kill the horde. lol WoW warfronts lol Rift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogolp Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 there's the flipside to this in terms of pop balance. On my server, repub side is low pop enough that they can always do an 8 man premade. Which means they always have a good combination of tanks/healers/dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesica Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) alot of people are quitting, Maybe its just my server but when you have friends and they stop logging on you take notice. Edited March 4, 2012 by Kesica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstout Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 lol Rift Should have said scenarios.... DOOMFIST CRATER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaplemouton Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Should have said scenarios.... DOOMFIST CRATER! Now I know you played warhammer AND Rift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesot Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) From what I've seen, the under-populated side has a much easier time getting BM since they can force fights at their base where they only need to tag the enemy and pull them into their base for instant Valor while the overpopulated side suffers by having to compete with each other for *********** boxes in mid. Edited March 4, 2012 by Jesot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 I wish I had a good answer. The only way I see to correct this is buffing the valor proportionally to the imbalance plus a bit so that they can catch up. It is unfortunate that BW did not forsee or anticipate this issue. I play both sides and while I enjoy my pub friends the pub side of the game is meh. Server mergers do not address the issue as all this does is combine servers with imbalances. I don't know how accurate the post was with pvp server numbers but none had pub over imp. Merging servers will only create more ilum slideshows. BM gear is not the end all of pvp. The issue is that the imps probably have 5 times more BM's? This is a guess. I hope BW will look at this. I am sure they can easily find out what the percentage of bm's is across factions. I have a suspicion that when ranked WZ's come out it will be a range so large it will really have no effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorble Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) .,,,,, Edited March 4, 2012 by Terrorble missed last post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazysithslayer Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 My big dilemma is that I like the gameplay on Imp side however the people are meh... and Pub side the gameplay is meh...but the people are awesome... Bioware simply improve gameplay Pub side and make it more desirable.... also make open world pvp possible... none of this pve fence-sitting on a pvp server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Funny on my server i find the pubs to be using quite to powerful gear , i would take another imp team over a pub one any day. Fully geared mostly and always in premades ... those are the pubs on my server almost all the time. Ofc , sometimes we get lucky and find a not yet rdy rep team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorble Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 My big dilemma is that I like the gameplay on Imp side however the people are meh... and Pub side the gameplay is meh...but the people are awesome... Bioware simply improve gameplay Pub side and make it more desirable.... also make open world pvp possible... none of this pve fence-sitting on a pvp server. What is it about the Imp gameplay that you like so much? Is the Pub gameplay worse because it's lacking that same thing the Imps have, or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 From what I've seen, the under-populated side has a much easier time getting BM since they can force fights at their base where they only need to tag the enemy and pull them into their base for instant Valor while the overpopulated side suffers by having to compete with each other for *********** boxes in mid. Not to argue your point but...... If the pubs are getting 20 valor per kill and the imps are getting 180. The pubs have to kill 6 imps to the imps having to kill one. I think 180 is the max you can get. If it is more then the problem is even bigger. Boxes do not generate valor. They only allow you complete the daily or weekly and I don't think that generates valor does it? The imps can pull just as easily as the pubs and when you have 3 x the people chances are you have 3 times the pullers. Fishing can work well for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relith Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) BW you need to look at this right away. It gets worse and worse each day and pretty soon the pubs are just going to say enough is enough. With a 3:1 population advantage the imps are getting far more valor per kill than the pubs as there is no way 10 or 11 pubs can keep objectives and attempt to kill the horde. Fact #1 No server has 3:1 imp to republic server population. Only 4 have 2:1 or higher. Fact #2 Most valor gains are from 8v8 warzones where population is of no importance Fact #3 By far the majority of valor yielded from ilum is in the form of kill trading. Yes, kill trading may only occur a few hours every day on your server, but in 1 hour, there is more kiling happening than an entire day of ilum otherwise. My server, tarro blood, is one of the most imbalanced servers, 2:1 imp to repub ratio. Yet, the number of republic battlemasters exceeds the number of imperial bms. Why? Although Ilum has a kill cap per time unit, it takes a while for that to kick in. While 20 imps are killing 6 republic for valor, those 6 republic are getting 20 kills in return (until the cap starts, where they will still get 10). I can only speak for my server, but id say at least 95% of the time when kill trading occurs, its at the center base, and each side holds their 2 nearest bases and swap the center out. The only time this is disturbed is when non farmer shows up and tries to actually, ya know, bring some real pvp to the area. You, are just a whiner, and spewing false statements does nothing to help your whinefest. Edited March 4, 2012 by Relith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) A. the average ratio is something like 1.7:1, not 3:1 B. server issue. on my server the repubs have better gear and we outnumber them C. imps get the advantage of ilum valor buff, but repubs get a ton more valor via ilum than imps can ever get if the repub is outnumbered D. probably about the same amount of BMs on both sides, which is why the average repub team is better geared than the average imp team. really the only place faction imbalance can possibly cause a problem right now is in pve where a smaller pool of players = fewer guilds capable of downing content. Edited March 4, 2012 by Ryotknife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat-Rat Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 C. imps get the advantage of ilum valor buff, but repubs get a ton more valor via ilum than imps can ever get if the repub is outnumbered . this doesnt make sense. how can the outnumbered side get more valor when the zerg side is getting 10 times the valor per kill? even if the outnumbered side managed a one to one trade off of kills (not easy but possiable) they'd still be getting only 20 valor per kill to the zerg sides 200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 ... you do realize the lower pop side is the one with easy access to valor. Imps- spend all the time bored doing armaments. Pubs- start a group, guaranteed to get a fight from Imps- bring a full sized ops into Ilum, crush Imps a few times while they outnumber them. Imps will fight back, even when outnumbered, because it's more exciting than picking up boxes- after half an hour or so, enough Imps are there from Fleet to even out numbers. Pubs then disband ops and leave- Imps get no valor/kill credit after being farmed, Pubs get plenty of both for farming smaller group of Imps. It's been like that for weeks on most servers since Pubs figured out smaller numbers meant they could control exactly when the fights happen- as such, Pubs have much better gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 BW you need to look at this right away. It gets worse and worse each day and pretty soon the pubs are just going to say enough is enough. With a 3:1 population advantage the imps are getting far more valor per kill than the pubs as there is no way 10 or 11 pubs can keep objectives and attempt to kill the horde. I did a quick inspection of the players in a pug and the gear the pubs were wearing was frightening. I have no clue how you intend to have ranked WZ's as there are many more times the number of BM IMPS than Pubs. I guess the imps will just wait forever to get a queue and then they will quit too. BW you created this mess I suggest you figure out a solution very quickly. Come to Ajunta Pall. The Reps are strong on my server. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat-Rat Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Fact #2 Most valor gains are from 8v8 warzones where population is of no importance . im a rep player on a sever where ilum is imp controled 90+ % of prime time and even ive gotten 30,000+ valor from ilum in just 5 hours a couple of weeks back. if i managed 1000 valor per wz at 4 wzs an hour that would take 7+ hours to equal. if i can do that much valor on a rare occasion when the reps arent outnumbeered, i shudder to think what the imps are getting with them controlling ilum 90% of prime time. Edited March 4, 2012 by Pat-Rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneroplex Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I play republic on Vulkar Highway. A month ago my guild felt PVP was nearly hopeless and complained alot about how the imp pre-mades were rocking them all the time. Lately it's much more balanced, this afternoon pubs were steamrolling imps in Ilum and there are a fair bit of battlemaster players on pub side that regularly queu for warzones. Quite often I face poorly organized imp teams that fall apart quickly when we gain the upper hand... I think over time the issue solves itself, as more people hit 50 you start to see more dedicated pvpers on the pub side and you start to see more 'bads' on the imp side. Once an imp gets battlemaster they don't get any stronger, all you have to do is catch up to them and you're quite capable of competing against them in centurion and champion gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) im a rep player on a sever where ilum is imp controled 90+ % of the time and even ive gotten 30,000+ valor from ilum in just 5 hours a couple of weeks back. if i managed 1000 valor per wz at 4 wzs an hour that would take 7+ hours to equal. if i can do that much valor on a rare occasion when the reps arent outnumbeered, i shudder to think what the imps are getting 90% of the time. Well, what you need to realize is that being outnumbered means you always have plenty of people waiting for you to kill them. When you are the outnumbering side, you basically spend hours riding around in a circle hoping an armament will spawn nearby and one of the other 20 people don't get to it first. I don't imagine you could have gotten 30k valor in 5 hours if you only saw 6-7 people to kill the entire time. Edited March 4, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 ... you do realize the lower pop side is the one with easy access to valor. Imps- spend all the time bored doing armaments. Pubs- start a group, guaranteed to get a fight from Imps- bring a full sized ops into Ilum, crush Imps a few times while they outnumber them. Imps will fight back, even when outnumbered, because it's more exciting than picking up boxes- after half an hour or so, enough Imps are there from Fleet to even out numbers. Pubs then disband ops and leave- Imps get no valor/kill credit after being farmed, Pubs get plenty of both for farming smaller group of Imps. It's been like that for weeks on most servers since Pubs figured out smaller numbers meant they could control exactly when the fights happen- as such, Pubs have much better gear. An ops is 24 people. The servers I play on the imps almost always have more than 24 on and if the pubs come out the get curb stomped. I think I hit a cord with some imps afraid of what might happen when their advantage disappears. I have never seen organized kill trading either. When two sides square off and fight for hours this is not kill trading that is called open world pvp. If the sides just stand there while the other kills them yes, but not if both sides are fighting. What do you call a premade that runs up 5 scores on Huttball and then holds the ball and farms the hell out of the other side. Both seem wrong to me. If you are not running premades when things are hot and you control the objectives you will collect so much more valor than playing a warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 this doesnt make sense. how can the outnumbered side get more valor when the zerg side is getting 10 times the valor per kill? even if the outnumbered side managed a one to one trade off of kills (not easy but possiable) they'd still be getting only 20 valor per kill to the zerg sides 200. because the repubs will never fight when they are outnumbered because they dont have to. if repubs are the smaller faction, that means that the imps contorl ilum 99% of the time. meaning that there are ALWAYS 10-15 imps in the center camping armaments whereas 90% of the time there isnt a single pub. then the republic forms a raid in their fleet, goes into ilum, caps all 5 bases and gets their 30 kills before the empire can even respond. the smaller faction will have the advantage in ilum because it is not instanced. the republic can strike at any time of the day and get their daily done. lets put it this way. i hit 50 in mid jan. if im not in a WZ, im in ilum do you know how many weekly ilum quests i have completed? one. and most of that was from armaments. in terms of big scale battles, there have been 5 that ive been involved in so far. 3 of those the republic blitz the center and outnumbered us 2 to 1, and the moment the odds were 1 to 1 the republic ran (because it was no longer in their interest to fight). 1 of those battles both sides were even, and both sides got the same amount of valor pretty much since when one side conquered the middle, the other side would cap 4 bases and then strike the center. the last battle the imps outnumbered the repub, and they left right away. i got...5 kills for 45 minutes of work...woooo. here is the thing though, the republic doesnt have to fight if they dont want to. the empire, on the other hand, HAS to fight even if they are outnumbered 2 to 1 why? because being outnumbered 2 to 1 is STILL preferable to farming armaments (and faster too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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