Why is Bacta Infusion a 31 point talent?

[Gankstah]

Seriously, this confuzzels me.

[Polimeris]

Your confusion staggers me.

 

Would you rather have kolto bomb as a 31 point talent ?

Or Advanced medical probe ?

 

I don't know, I am baffled too.

[Veriu]

What? You don't like having a free instant cast heal?

[Gannacus]

If you are refering to its healing power I kind of agree with you - would like to see it heal a lot more hp - at least up with Medical Probe stats

 

That said it is instant, its free, it is only a 21 second cooldown, and you can cast it on the run.

 

Thats not bad.

 

Would like to see a bit more imagination in the tier below though - 5 points to get 15% increment is a bit "run out of ideas"ish.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Gannacus

[RuQu]

BI is not terrible. From the Math Compendium thread's Instant Heal comparison summary:

 

BI is the most limited in usability, with a fixed 21s cooldown (18s with 4pc set). It heals for 74% of FA.

EMP is the weakest, healing for 44% of FA, and with limited emergency utility because it requires precasting a 2s cast time spell or relying on a 30% proc from a HoT which ticks every 3s.

FA is the strongest, has the largest coefficient, and is the most spammable. With skills the cooldown is simply the GCD. It can only be cast on a player every 20s (17 with PvP set bonus), but it can be cast on any other player during that duration.

 

It could be worse, our 31pt could be the terrible Scoundrel AoE that does 38% of Sage AoE for double the cost.

[bruced]

BI is not terrible. From the Math Compendium thread's Instant Heal comparison summary:

 

 

 

It could be worse, our 31pt could be the terrible Scoundrel AoE that does 38% of Sage AoE for double the cost.

 

I love for you pointing this out. Lol... anyclass who likes to QQ about healing needs to play a scoundrel to 50 and heal an Op

[vendorune]

I don't believe Sage AoE is instant. But I'm an Oper myself so whatdoino

[RuQu]

I don't believe Sage AoE is instant. But I'm an Oper myself so whatdoino

 

Sage AoE is not, it is a 2s base cast. With standard Alacrity levels, it is closer to 1.6s.

[Soshla]

Sage AoE is not, it is a 2s base cast. With standard Alacrity levels, it is closer to 1.6s.

1.6s Salvation requires 900 Alacrity Rating. Standard Alacrity ratings put it at about 1.8s. The easiest way to think about it is in terms of Kolto Injection/Medical Probe. All of them are 2s cast times. So if you have enough time to cast a Medical Probe, a Sage can AoE heal.

[Urishir]

slighly offtopic

but anytime there isnt time to cast 2 sec heal (like sage aoe) smuggler instant aoe wont matter anyway

 

(well thats overly negative, its sometimes usefull when im hotted and running away from single person in pvp) otherwise im better off casting heals since its energy cost just kills my energy if used in any tight spot

[vendorune]

1.6s Salvation requires 900 Alacrity Rating. Standard Alacrity ratings put it at about 1.8s. The easiest way to think about it is in terms of Kolto Injection/Medical Probe. All of them are 2s cast times. So if you have enough time to cast a Medical Probe, a Sage can AoE heal.

 

Yes I understand that and from your point of view sage aoe is always better.

 

My strategy is to cast my ae heal when I move. Basically always. So at a point when Sage/Sorc needs to stop mine is already running. And energy regen most likely ticked.

 

I am overall surprised how many people instead of embracing the new healing classes for this game (rogue healers that is) keep pounding the traditional stand-and-heal and refusing new play-style ideas.

[Shroudveil]

Yes I understand that and from your point of view sage aoe is always better.

 

My strategy is to cast my ae heal when I move. Basically always. So at a point when Sage/Sorc needs to stop mine is already running. And energy regen most likely ticked.

 

I am overall surprised how many people instead of embracing the new healing classes for this game (rogue healers that is) keep pounding the traditional stand-and-heal and refusing new play-style ideas.

 

too bad that in the 3secs it takes your aoe to tick sorcs aoe has healed ~double what yours have though dont you think?

 

also if you cast rn every time it is off cd you wont have energy since it costs ONLY 30%of your total energy eaach cast.

 

also it hits half the people.

 

as a referance, 450alacrity which is fairly easy even in columni gear (much less than the 550alacrity in rakata) makes a 2sec cast 1.7sec cast, so gz for doing it 0.2sec faster.

 

edit:

also there isn't any "stealth" healer.

you cant heal in stealth

if you do incombat stealth you cant heal for 10secs period

you gain 0 benefits for stealth in pve in healing

 

also, i like my operative, its a new system, i want it to work. atm though i have 1/2of the tools i need to do an equal job as a healer.

 

you want stealth healer? put some actual stealth healing talents like:

for 10secs after leaving stealth you have +x healing

cloaking screen: remove the stupid 10sec heal debuff and instead put a bonus on it through talents

being in stealth generats TAs

targetted incombat cloaking screens for others, (similar to friendly pull only worse since they will still be hitted by the aoe they stand in)

etc

etc

Edited March 5, 2012 by Shroudveil

[RuQu]

Yeah, my bad on the 1.6s. I tend to keep Combat Medic numbers in my head and have to look up Sage stuff every time and forgot they don't have all of the Alacrity skills we do.

 

Even so, it is not as though it is a large cast time. Their big single target heal takes longer.

 

As for not embracing the new mechanics and standing and healing...the Commando has new resource mechanics but is a very stationary healer, more so than either Sages or Scoundrels.

 

It isn't that people aren't embracing the new idea, the reason for all of the outcry is that people REALLY enjoy the new concepts...but BW put some huge mobility taxes on them (~70% tax) and then designed the fights around allowing for Sages to stop and AoE.

 

So they decrease the efficacy of Scoundrel heals and call it balanced because of their greater mobility (which is greatly overstated), and then design fights such that that mobility provides no real benefit which just leaves them as a weaker healer.

 

No one is asking for cookie-cutter classes, just for equal results with equal effort, with different styles.

[Saella]

edit:

also there isn't any "stealth" healer.

you cant heal in stealth

if you do incombat stealth you cant heal for 10secs period

you gain 0 benefits for stealth in pve in healing

 

also, i like my operative, its a new system, i want it to work. atm though i have 1/2of the tools i need to do an equal job as a healer.

 

you want stealth healer? put some actual stealth healing talents like:

for 10secs after leaving stealth you have +x healing

cloaking screen: remove the stupid 10sec heal debuff and instead put a bonus on it through talents

being in stealth generats TAs

targetted incombat cloaking screens for others, (similar to friendly pull only worse since they will still be hitted by the aoe they stand in)

etc

etc

 

You stole my word....Totally agree...

They should have spend the same amount of time on the operative as they do for the sorcerer... atm all we have is an half-completed classe... which isn't appealing.....

Edited March 5, 2012 by Saella

[RuQu]

too bad that in the 3secs it takes your aoe to tick sorcs aoe has healed ~double what yours have though dont you think?

 

 

That's not quite true, Shroud...

 

With near identical base heals and coefficients:

 

Salvation

Average Base Heal: 134.615

Coefficient: 0.376

 

Kolto Cloud

Average Base Heal 132.032

Coefficient 0.386

 

 

Salv and KC heal for ~the same per tick, so in the 3s you are waiting for KC to tick, Salv will heal for ~3x, not double.

 

Of course, that just makes your point stronger...

[Saella]

That's not quite true, Shroud...

 

With near identical base heals and coefficients:

 

Salvation

Average Base Heal: 134.615

Coefficient: 0.376

 

Kolto Cloud

Average Base Heal 132.032

Coefficient 0.386

 

 

Salv and KC heal for ~the same per tick, so in the 3s you are waiting for KC to tick, Salv will heal for ~3x, not double.

 

Of course, that just makes your point stronger...

 

LOL i was wondering where the fck you where going, and laugh hard at the end

[RuQu]

LOL i was wondering where the fck you where going, and laugh hard at the end

 

Sometimes the truth is funny.

 

Sometimes it makes you cry.

 

Sometimes both.

[Gankstah]

I'm not saying Bacta Infusion is bad. I am, however, saying that's it's no where near good enough to be considered a 31 point talent. BioWare takes a strange perspective on Talent trees. Not all of them but most of them. Put all the really good talents towards the bottom and put all the "meh" talents at the top.

[RuQu]

I'm not saying Bacta Infusion is bad. I am, however, saying that's it's no where near good enough to be considered a 31 point talent. BioWare takes a strange perspective on Talent trees. Not all of them but most of them. Put all the really good talents towards the bottom and put all the "meh" talents at the top.

 

It is strange. There is debate in the Gunnery community about taking Demolition Round. Scoundrel AoE is so bad some people don't take it.

 

Sage top-ends are pretty awesome. Salvation for Seers and Turbulence for DPS. Bacta Infusion is "worthwhile," Demo Round is "debatable" (my sims show it as an increase, but I'm not confident of them yet), and Kolto Cloud is "pretty terrible."

 

A person could make a strong case for the game being released with one class having been far better defined and refined than the others...

[vendorune]

 

As for not embracing the new mechanics and standing and healing...the Commando has new resource mechanics but is a very stationary healer, more so than either Sages or Scoundrels.

 

 

Commando wears heavy armor. This, to me, is actually a prerequisite for some advanced content. That is to have content in which not all healing classes can survive.

 

From my point of view it is the Sage/Sorc who isn't getting hammered when he should be! Now I'm not going to start making a list of HMs and operations (not all of which I've seen) and try to tell BW how to do it.

 

Content is merciful to the weaklings --> some other classes become simply unnecessary.

[Aaoogaa]

Because it is free.

Instant cast.

4 piece bonus down to 18 sec

Crits for 4000-5000k

 

From my experience it is a worthy 31 point talent.

[EnanoMaldito]

can't belive you are complaining about THAT 31-point talent. You should play an Op/Scoundrel and try a real ****** 31-point talent + an underpowered healing class.