I need some knowledgeable pve dps juggs.

[Cassp]

Ok so im going to start dps'ing and i need numbers. here is the list of things i want to know and what order i should prioritise them.

 

None of the below information should be takin as fact as it's just the current best info i have.

 

Accuracy: i think we bring it to 100% and leave it.

 

Surge: I'm not sure when it starts deminishing, some say 70, some say 75/80.. lets clear this up.

 

Crit: People are saying bring it to 30% and leave it, obviously rage doesn't need crit like vengeance does.

 

Power: Probably better then crit for rage juggs, not for vengeance. how much of a dps increase is this to crit.

 

Crit v Strength: This one seems like it would obviously be strength but i would like definitive answers as currently i'm in full rakata trying to figure out when i should stop stacking crit/surge and start substituting strength.

 

And which jugg dps spec is better for pve raiding, Veng or Rage?... hold that thought, i know what you are going to say... Vengeance because it has consistent dps etc etc etc. i want to know why, because rage's dps doesn't completely die once they've done their fully procced slams.

 

If i find out most of this i might tidy this up and it will be a good recource for jugg dps.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Cassp

[CRuby]

Can say about Surge, between 70-75% and after 75% dimishing are really high. 48 surge goes from 75.1 to 76.36%. If i get 48 surge from 71.15 it goes up to 73.41%. Did this on the fly, if you need more specific numbers, more adv math must be involved. Edited March 3, 2012 by CRuby

[woodfrog]

Some very good questions here. If you didn't already do so, try to have a look at http://www.sithwarrior.com/forums

I would guess that the diminishing returns can be found by just equipping piece by piece of your armor and watching the numbers. Although I'm pretty sure someone already did that.

 

I personally prefer running vengeance dps, because it is kind of a dual spec, if you have two sets of gear, but I absolutely believe that rage is viable too. It depends on the rest of the ops-group: How much AoE do you have, how many ranged and melees. Do you have to be able to offtank or not... But mostly I think it's a decision of your playstyle and preference.

[Darth_Sookie]

I wouldn't go above 73% surge. Crit whatever you can get but don't itemize purely for it.

 

Above all else stack strenght and power.

[Ahku]

I have the same question. Vengeance pve Jugg... been stacking power and it seems like my kills are slower than my jedi gaurdian (defense spec). Plus all the gear that drop and that you get with your comms has crit priority.

[Angof]

For Vengence what I do is:

 

Acc to 10% > Crit to 30% > Surge to 75% > Power > Crit to 35% = Surge to 100% > Acc

 

I wouldn't ever try to push Crit past 35% and personally have given up on some crit for surge because my crit rate was so high after buffs. Why wouldn't I push it over 35%? Because I'm talking pre-buffed stats and 35% makes you end up with 100% crit rate on bread and butter skills after operative (scoundral) buff and your innate 60% crit chance increase.

 

We've actually run numbers before and I have seen that power is superior for long term DPS if I remember correctly. This is because power isn't exactly a flat increase, but a variable increase. See each ability has a power modifier which takes your damage and multiplies it by an amount. In some cases it is by 1 (strike) in other cases it is by ~.3 (one of the dots) and still there are times it is close to 2 or 3 (ravage/master strike I believe). Most abilities are above 1x damage but below 2x damage.

 

Still I think it's pretty hard to only stack power meaning the final stat outcome of:

 

Acc to 10% > Power > Crit to 30% > Surge to 75% > Crit to 35% = Surge to 100% > Acc

 

Wouldn't be too different.

 

IMPORTANT: Power tests were done in a strict X power vs X crit (meaning you would add 50 power or 50 crit rating) and always assumed the same levels of crit and surge before either were applied. That said when choosing between mods/enhancements that have multiple stats or varying amounts of stats there is different math that would need to be done based on your individual crit/surge rating at the time.

 

Despite this, I firmly believe STR and/or Power augments should always be used because you can reach all other stat benchmarks without applying crit or surge augments, and power and STR are the only things that don't give diminishing returns per stat point.

 

EDIT: Power augments should prioritize over STR augments unless you need more Crit chance to hit the 30% unbuffed threshold. This is because STR adds some crit % on a seperate table at a very small amount (that I don't think has diminishing returns) from the crit chance modifier table.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Angof

[froops]

Have a look at the following link. It nicely lists out all of the calculations for all attributes and puts it into a nice visual graph.

 

http://www.jedilace.com/category/swtor/

 

I am a vengeance PvE jugg and by far that is the best spec to choose if you want to do PvE DPS.

 

As for prioritising stats:

 

1. Accuracy: 100%.

 

2. Surge Rating: ~250 = ~73-75% Crit Multiplier. This is because as stated, the diminishing returns makes it less worthwhile to further increase surge over another stat.

 

3. Crit Rating: ~500-700. After this, diminishing returns starts to steepen and you're better off trying to increase strength/power. Depending on your strength your unbuffed crit rating should be around maybe 30-35%.

 

4. Strength: As far as I know, there is no diminishing returns on your strength rating's contribution to weapon damage bonus and it also helps to improve your critical chance. Whilst there are diminishing returns on its bonus to crit chance it's a very shallow curve, almost linear.

 

5. Power: This is interchangeable with strength depending on what your current strength stat is. As far as I know, strength improves only your weapon damage bonus by 0.23 per point of power. Strength increases it by 0.2 however by the time you factor in the 6% increase with your vengeance talent and 5% bonus from class buffs, this becomes a 0.2226 bonus. It also increases your crit chance however around 1400-1600 this averages about to about a 0.0056% bonus per strength point.

[Sogar]

Ok so im going to start dps'ing and i need numbers. here is the list of things i want to know and what order i should prioritise them.

 

None of the below information should be takin as fact as it's just the current best info i have.

 

Accuracy: i think we bring it to 100% and leave it.

 

Surge: I'm not sure when it starts deminishing, some say 70, some say 75/80.. lets clear this up.

 

Crit: People are saying bring it to 30% and leave it, obviously rage doesn't need crit like vengeance does.

 

Power: Probably better then crit for rage juggs, not for vengeance. how much of a dps increase is this to crit.

 

Crit v Strength: This one seems like it would obviously be strength but i would like definitive answers as currently i'm in full rakata trying to figure out when i should stop stacking crit/surge and start substituting strength.

 

And which jugg dps spec is better for pve raiding, Veng or Rage?... hold that thought, i know what you are going to say... Vengeance because it has consistent dps etc etc etc. i want to know why, because rage's dps doesn't completely die once they've done their fully procced slams.

 

If i find out most of this i might tidy this up and it will be a good recource for jugg dps.

 

1/ Veng or Rage?

It depends what you are planning to do. If you are talking about raiding veng >> rage. Basically, single target DPS is nearly the only thing that matters for raiding because the real fights are boss fights. Vengeance give you a far better DPS. Even in fights that needs burst phases vengeance performs very well (because they last at least 10s and that's largely enough to pull out a good rotation with all your damaging skills and low duration DoTs upfront).

 

2/ Acc and surge :

These secondary stats should be looked together. Because gear always give accuracy or surge (some crafted gear give both but they become irrelevent for endgame). The basic rule then is to get at least 100% accuracy and then everything else on surge. You will have a ton of surge with the 3% accuracy bonus but you don't have to worry about that.

 

3/ Crit or Power :

Another pair of secondary stat that compete together. Basically, crit gives you more at low level but have a true DR that power don't have. So you want to stack crit until you get to a point where the DR is too important.

As far as I know, the turning point is around 200 crit rating. As far as you have a crit rating between 180 and 250 you are good. Everything else on power obviously. In theory, the more strength you have the lower the turning point is but it's not as simple as a crit % works well. So just keep it around 200.

 

4/ Power or Stength :

That's actually only important for augments. Since you have +6% strength, strength is better than power ... always.

[froops]

1/ Veng or Rage?

It depends what you are planning to do. If you are talking about raiding veng >> rage. Basically, single target DPS is nearly the only thing that matters for raiding because the real fights are boss fights. Vengeance give you a far better DPS. Even in fights that needs burst phases vengeance performs very well (because they last at least 10s and that's largely enough to pull out a good rotation with all your damaging skills and low duration DoTs upfront).

 

2/ Acc and surge :

These secondary stats should be looked together. Because gear always give accuracy or surge (some crafted gear give both but they become irrelevent for endgame). The basic rule then is to get at least 100% accuracy and then everything else on surge. You will have a ton of surge with the 3% accuracy bonus but you don't have to worry about that.

 

3/ Crit or Power :

Another pair of secondary stat that compete together. Basically, crit gives you more at low level but have a true DR that power don't have. So you want to stack crit until you get to a point where the DR is too important.

As far as I know, the turning point is around 200 crit rating. As far as you have a crit rating between 180 and 250 you are good. Everything else on power obviously. In theory, the more strength you have the lower the turning point is but it's not as simple as a crit % works well. So just keep it around 200.

 

4/ Power or Stength :

That's actually only important for augments. Since you have +6% strength, strength is better than power ... always.

 

The first point of this post is ok, however for the OP, I would refer to my post above it.

 

Accuracy and Surge do not come hand in hand. The combinations for end game Jugg PvE DPS gear are: Accuracy/Power, Accuracy/Crit, Crit/Surge.

 

In regards to capping crit rating at 200. 200 is way too low. 200 crit rating gives you 7.81% crit on top of the base 5% and whatever you get from your strength which unless you have 2000 unbuffed is below 12%. It is important to note that the critical chance bonus and it's associated 'soft cap' for diminishing returns from strength and from Critical Rating are on separate and completely different scales.

 

Refer to the link I posted for calculating crit chance bonuses. This is the direct link. http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/03/calculating-critical-hit-chance/

 

Lastly, strength is not always better than power. It's situational based on your current strength rating. The point where you decide that enough strength is enough and power is better is up to you.

 

I'm sure there is a way to calculate the exact unbuffed strength level where power becomes the better option for improving DPS over time however it would be based on your surge rating and would vary per player. If I get the chance I will try and work out a rough formula.