poulpatine Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 With the current state of the game, serious pvp groups will NEVER take this ac, class is alrdeay the least played by far and will be 100% dead once rated wzs come out. I'll start with facts : the ac had so many bugs it was nearly unplayed for the 1st month post release. A lot of bugs persist, the 2 most known being the cover root bug and the unkown effect cover bug. We can't cover on ledges, on some places and we can't cover while rooted. Huge on gameplay, still no fix. People spec either MM/SS or leth/df(or hybrids with pts eng/sabo) for pvp. All MM/ss are weapon damage, and thus being negated by ALL armor/defense/shield mechanics. Someone takes the ball and pops defensive cds, even if he's a dpser, and guess what ? Nearly completely IMMUNE to all YOUR damage. Marau with saber ward ? Enjoy being chain deflected, my record being 7 chained deflections. Sorcs and mercenaries will hit. Even without defensive cds you get a LOT of deflections, playing against a lot of assassins ? Yup you'll be useless and do no damage at all but others ranged classes will do just fine. Why would be penalised this way ? because of your godlike dps in pvp ? Lol no we don't top dmg chart in wzs. Leth/df gets good damage, better mobility. But if only one or your poison/bleed effects gets dispelled in your rotation you will loose all your burst and be 100% useless for the whole wz. Ops/assas can clean dots. Mercos & ops dispell them. And people use them in group pvp. Plus it will lose the ONLY utility it offered, annoying nondispelling comps for tagging objectives (see next patchnotes). I remember listening devs talking about snipers/gs in previews for swtor, they said we were a very strong class for defending positions. Ho god the liars. Fact is, gs are the WORST class ever for defending, first, we have no defensive cds, shield probe is laughable at best (1.5K+ dmg absorbed ? really ?) and evasion SUCKS, all acs minus snipers mainly use power or tech abilities, and all bypass evasion, hell even marauders are more effective than SS gs against evasion. Meaning our ONLY defensive tools are our hps and our armor, which are laughable too. You cant' defend turrets or doors because there are objects EVERYWHERE. See a sniper ? go behind the turret and tag, he'll need to reposition himself and will be a free hk. Or you could send a stealth class to trishot him too. In group pvp it's the same, turret and get losed, move and get trained. Op opens on you, maraura charges you and you are instantly below 10%, sorcs bubble sprint away, mercs tank a minimum, you die. Cover should be a core mechanic for a class, not a gimping mechanic . It gives us 20% bonus RANGED defense, and it only works against our mirror only if he's specced MM/SS, what a crap. Cover has a huge delay after activation if you want to remove it. See someong aoeing after deploying cover ? your character will herderp mini for 1 whole second. Yup. Gets a small delay upon activation to actually DO stuff. Want to snipe ? Wait 0.3s for the animation, spam your bind and pray. Sometimes cover pulse does not work on melee targets with no resolve, implying you're not already rooted and you can use your tools. Entrench/hunker down and ballistic shield/scrambling field SUCK SO MUCH. See a sorc ? Pop entrench, he sprints behind pillar. Don't pop entrench ? Get bumped/stunned and no matched ? If you poped entrench and try to reposition yourself ? Well you can't, you lost the buff, will be rooted and won't be able to cover. Same with ballistic shield, ****** range, the bonus is crap and if you don't have entrench to back it up, you won't last more than 2s in cover. It's a pve ability. Remove it completely and give us our reusable defensive cd (less than 2mn cd, like other classes). Our ccs and utility are awesome...some snipers think, until they realise they have the only melee stun, the ranged class with THE melee stun rofl. Plus legshot can be deflected and has a huge delay. Want to root soemone ? Too bad he'll already be behind the fire/pillar or beating your healer. Want to stun someone ? Go melee lawl. Operatives get the same ccs, do more consistant damage, kill healers more effectively, techdispell, assist heal the ball carrier, aren't gimped vs defense mechanics, will do more damage in wz. They can stealth for passes. They can vanish if they see a switch on them. They can los and heal themselves. They can heal on the run if specced for heals. They too can orbital strike for area denials too and frag stuff. And you actually SEE some people complaining about operatives utility in wz, and they are still 10 times better than snipers for nearly everything. Facts. If you get the squishiest class in the game, you should get the most utility with ccs or the most damage of the acs in pvp. And we have nothing. Melee stun. Others ranged are better for offense, for defense, they don't have bugs or ****** INCONSISTENT MECHANICS which were not betatested, they can either force or tech dispell, they can offheal a ballcarrier if needed. A sorc can sprint/pull/bubble with no efforts and no cast times. A sorc can stun from range, a sorc does not need to spend talents to snare someone. A sorc will do more consistent monotarget damage and a ****ton more of aoe damage. Snipers would be needed if they killed stuff faster, but they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aribethx Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Wall of text crits OVER 9000!!! Edited March 2, 2012 by Aribethx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaplemouton Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I didn't read. Go learn your maths. Sniper Ambush + explosive probe = dead healer Gunslinger Any gunslinger abilities + any other gunslinger abilities = useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poulpatine Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Ambush + explosive probe = dead healer Go learn your maths. You should've taken your math classes more seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbb Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Didn't read. But I agree that snipers are useless for rateds I will not be taking one in mine for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karandor Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Learn to pick targets. If you're shooting at a person with a defensive CD up you're doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaplemouton Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You should've taken your math classes more seriously. Why? It works perfectly. 4k + 3k = Healer with 0 health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poulpatine Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Learn to pick targets. If you're shooting at a person with a defensive CD up you're doing it wrong. or you could l2read and l2p. I'm not complaining about the defensive cds themselves, i'm talking about the fact others acs can still properly damage the same target while gs/snipers just can't. And i'll still try to burst the ball carrier if he's not assisted by a horde of healers thanks, that's what we call playing the objectives and being useful to your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanyala Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I think you guys haven't seen properly played GS. We have 2 in our guilds, that would rock your world - assist train, they wreck people. Huttball, the center is always ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavensTerror Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I agree on most of these points. Sniper/Slinger are pretty much useless. Other classes can do what you do and much more. This is coming from someone with a BM Slinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dystopic Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Snipers do their job. They snip. They might need some buffs but claiming that they are 100% useless makes me want to not listen to anything you have to say and completely ignore the issue. Probably a lot of other people to. So stop exaggerating it really doesn't help your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orenjee Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Okay... I'm so tired of seeing ppl hate on snipers. I get top damage all the time with my sniper with "omg it's so unfair" marksman tree. I took out lv 45 players at lv 28 before they even get close. It rocks for strategic defense. I can cc three incs with flash bang, take out at least one before it ends, and seriously **** up the other two before dying. I agree the sniper could use some lovin' but it's not a bad class at all. It's just not an easy class. Only things I would srsly complain about are the defensive, push attacks, and cc. I think evasion should boost defense/absorb damage and the push should slow the enemy down some. It's not fair mercenaries wear heavy armor/have an absorbing shield/can knockback a character and slow them down. Let's not even complain about the fact they heal as well. Our best cc is leg shot which leaves us vulnerable to attack, flash bang is okay but one attack breaks the spell, and debiliate... If you can use that you're already in srs trouble. (As a marksman snipe anyway) So I think BW should certainly balance that out. I'm not just raging cause of bad pvp experience either. I have a mercenary at about lv 23 and I think the range of skills are pretty unbalanced in comparison. I can do damage just fine, what I need is more ways to protect myself if I'm discovered by enemy players/mobs. How come every other class has an escape measure/protection but snipers just get *****? And no... Cover does not count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozbozjimjam Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 the damage we put out is fine bugs though are not cover pulse rarely ever works not being able to root yourself whilst rooted (just doesnt make sense) not being able to cover on ledges all very irratating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof-Chaos Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Snipers and Slingers do not make up for their major disadvantage in utility by advantage in DPS. With LoS, armor mitigation and cleanse you can even argue that they don't have an advantage in DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanyala Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I think you guys haven't seen properly played GS. We have 2 in our guilds, that would rock your world - assist train, they wreck people. Huttball, the center is always ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartes Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 my biggest gripe is that I cannot stun anyone at range while melee classes have ranged stun. Flash Grenade is pathetic anyway as it breaks immediately. Have anyone seen GS stunlocking anyone? Coz it happens to my GS all the time. Still, I like my GS a lot but people who say that GS put up crazy damage are A) below lvl 50 or B) are liars. In 10-49 bracket I could put up over 500k dmg in WZ, at 50 I am happy if I break 300k. Once your opponents get tons of defensive CDs and good armor 50% of GS damage is absorbed/mitigated/deflected/whatever. Even a simple HoT can ruin our "burst" and mind that none of our high damage abilities is spammable. Oh, and during any fight 80%+ of my hits are White damage (weapon) so I assume if my Pri weapon dmg (on stats) show it is 9k+ and I hit for 4k tops so 60%+ of it is mitigated. Dunno how those rated WZs will look like but I doubt any GS will top the charts unless BW rethinks its mechanic and fixes some bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcimeister Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 People who don't actually read the text, yet feel they are contributing by posting anyhow, need to get a grip. And no, this is not a wall of text. There are plenty of gaps to make it easy to follow, it's just a long post. And to be honest, even if he is a bit aggressive and finger pointing, he makes good points and I hope people actually bother to read it and help with a discussion more then "l2p". I've felt many of these bugs and issues myself, and it is rather gamebreaking. Targets not being pushed away at all, even with empty resolve, effectivly leads to demise. Especially if it's a quickburst class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LenrocNewDawn Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 GS sharpshooter spec here (valor55, champ/cent gear). Single biggest disadvantage of a GS, I can think think of, is that if one gets rooted out of cover he loses 90% of his DPS so that works almost like a stun. And one has to get out of cover in order to keep LOS against a player that knows what he's doing. Another bad thing is that, a GS damage has to bypass all defensive layers that this game has, so a good chunk of that godly damage on paper gets mitigated. Also I can mention that pulse detonator doesn't always work (not talking about resolve here). Also the fact that pulse detonator only works from cover is a bit silly to IMHO. Those aside I'm enjoying the class and even if I rarely get top damage, most kills or most medals I don't think I'm useless (maybe not so useful as other classes ) . Cheers, Lenroc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyaara Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) OP is completely right. A GS/Sniper face the facts when 50. Before is quite different. The wall is at 50. Where everything got all abilities, defenses etcetcetc. MM/SS is weak cos the attacks are weapon damage, too static and very bad defences. Cover sucks. DF is fun and with very mobility but has serious issues with the energy. And you will see your CCs doing nothing due resolve bar, resists etcetcetc. Many times you will feel like a dummy. Energy is one of the main concerns except being MM/SS. Playing my Sage i got endless force when doing dps and not problems at all, for example. I can spam everything without worry about my force bar. My GS is dry after a burst, Cool Head is not enough. Its unfair. Dunno, people will face the fact when rating wz will be out. A good team will destroy cover guys easily. If there re any, of course. I doubt it. Doing dps there are better class by far than this class in warzones. I really hope in 1.2 they will get a buff. They need. Edited March 2, 2012 by Nyaara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosestick Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Will be nice to get a combat log, so I can know what hits me in 1 global for 5000+4000. Im guessing ambush and exp probe. But hey, bad snipers are gimped so 90% of the time I am safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defilade Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have a BM sniper top the charts with dmg/kills blah blah blah, but really someone of equal skill using a sorc/merc can do the same damn thing and have added utility. When rated WZs come out it will genuinely be questionable if you should bring a sniper/slinger in an ideal 8 man set up. Perhaps just for the buff? Since I run with a leth/eng hybrid build my usefulness has dropped quite a bit with the dot change as well, though I fully support the change. All Bioware needs to do is give us a bit more utility and of course fix bugs and we will be fine. Look at marauders, they have two unique party buffs and it doesn't hurt they do great damage plus are great at huttball as well. The unique sniper buff has a freaking 3 minute c/d and should seriously be looked into.. buff it or significantly reduce its c/d to something like 90 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krystaf Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 There's a huge difference between 10-49 bracket and 50's bracket for GS/Sniper. Below 50 a well played GS/Sniper is awesome. Then you hit 50 and armor+expertise+defensive cd's kick in and your burst damage, the thing that sets you apart (in SS/MM spec), starts to fade and your overall damage levels with other classes that beat you in all the other areas (defence, heal or cc). Simply put, there are other classes that do what you do, but shine in other areas where you don't. You're still ok, can be even good, but something class defining is lost. I still have fun with Sniper at 50 because it really takes effort to do well, but I confess that I envy many of the other classes P.S Fix the cover system BW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambulaGTS Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Cause topping pug wz charts have something with rated wzs. Really. I thought it was about winning and gaining rating. So what's the point of 35 m range if turret LoS you, doors have so small area around them for defenders and you can't do thing to assa tank carring the ball under immunities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wessik Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Why? It works perfectly. 4k + 3k = Healer with 0 health. in your scenario, how does 7k burst > 15-18k health pool? even if it was as simple as a ambush + exp probe, you're saying ambush + exp probe = 7k wait 15 sec for the sorcerer to do stand still and NOT heal while ambush is on cooldown wait 30 sec for the sorcerer to do stand still and NOT heal while exp probe is on cooldown ambush + exp probe = 7k random other shot = dead right.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Why? It works perfectly. 4k + 3k = Healer with 0 health. What bracket you play where healers have 7k hp? The handicap one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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