Stop With the Dailies!

[Tarka]

Maybe something along the lines of a rotating random dailies. Where there are about 50 (just a number off the top of my head) quests that would be dailies. Every morning when they reset each person is generated certain dialies out of that pool to do.

 

I can see how doing them would get boring and that is where I see the problem, maybe that would help resolve it a bit?

 

If I recall correctly, WoW's cataclysm actually did that on Tol Barad and the other high end place I forget the name of. Suffice it to say, that the concept did add a certain sense of variation, that much is true.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Tarka

[Fizbanic]

If I recall correctly, WoW's cataclysm actually did that on Tol Barad and the other high end place I forget the name of. Suffice it to say, that the concept did add a certain sense of variation, that much is true.

 

hehe you're right, never did the TB dailies much but I believe there were limited (not a large variation) of quests there.

[Llenyd]

If you don't like repeating content, you're playing the wrong genre.

 

Whether you're repeating quests, flashpoints/dungeons, ops/raids, or warzones/battlegrounds, MMOGs are built on repeating content. The only alternative is to quit and jump to another game after you've run through the content once.

[Gungan]

Possible alternative #1:

 

Place a quest hub on every planet similar to daily quest hubs. Now replace daily quests with a unique quest chain for each planet. You can only do one quest in the chain for each planet each day, but it is always the next step in the chain.

The next step in the chain depends on how you completed the previous quests in the chain (actual story branching, not the so called branching we've seen up to this point which leads to the same ending).

 

Now, the next quest in the chain won't depend on something trivial as a conversation choice. It needs to depend on how you actually complete the quest. You can either do the quest you're on by sneaking, which results in one option, or killing results in another, or paying off an official, etc. The options are presented when you start the quest.

 

Lets say arbitrarily that a chain will take you 7 days to complete (a fair number I think). So it will be a 7 day long repeatable chain so you can try different paths each play through. Each day should offer two branching paths, resulting in a total of 127 different quests you could possibly do.

 

Once you've completed the chain the first time, you unlock a new 7 day repeatable chain with 127 new quests to do (or some other reward, who knows)..

 

Each time you complete a quest in the chain you get a daily commendation (so you can still collect).

 

Each time you complete the chain you get a more substatial reward (perhaps a different one for each possible ending).

 

Once you've completely all 127 possible quests in a chain, you get some kind of epic reward.

 

Now these numbers are inflating expontentially, so we can either shorten the chain (I don't personally like this option), or you have fewer of these hubs (probably the more sane option, as a hub can be added to a planet without one with patches, while new links in the chain would make less sense).

 

Anyways, picking the length and number of possible outcomes is a design choice, but the more substatial, the more rewarding.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Gungan

[Gungan]

If I recall correctly, WoW's cataclysm actually did that on Tol Barad and the other high end place I forget the name of. Suffice it to say, that the concept did add a certain sense of variation, that much is true.

 

Rotating dailies makes them more tolerable, but it's still not enough imo.

[Gungan]

Updated with an actual suggestion.

[KahnyaGnorc]

Possible alternative #1:

 

Place a quest hub on every planet similar to daily quest hubs. Now replace daily quests with a unique quest chain for each planet. You can only do one quest in the chain for each planet each day, but it is always the next step in the chain.

The next step in the chain depends on how you completed the previous quests in the chain (actual story branching, not the so called branching we've seen up to this point which leads to the same ending).

 

Now, the next quest in the chain won't depend on something trivial as a conversation choice. It needs to depend on how you actually complete the quest. You can either do the quest you're on by sneaking, which results in one option, or killing results in another, or paying off an official, etc. The options are presented when you start the quest.

 

Lets say arbitrarily that a chain will take you 7 days to complete (a fair number I think). So it will be a 7 day long repeatable chain so you can try different paths each play through. Each day should offer two branching paths, resulting in a total of 127 different quests you could possibly do.

 

Once you've completed the chain the first time, you unlock a new 7 day repeatable chain with 127 new quests to do (or some other reward, who knows)..

 

Each time you complete a quest in the chain you get a daily commendation (so you can still collect).

 

Each time you complete the chain you get a more substatial reward (perhaps a different one for each possible ending).

 

Once you've completely all 127 possible quests in a chain, you get some kind of epic reward.

 

Now these numbers are inflating expontentially, so we can either shorten the chain (I don't personally like this option), or you have fewer of these hubs (probably the more sane option, as a hub can be added to a planet without one with patches, while new links in the chain would make less sense).

 

Anyways, picking the length and number of possible outcomes is a design choice, but the more substatial, the more rewarding.

 

That actually sounds like a good suggestion . . . might want to drop it in the Suggestion forum, where it would be read by those in BioWare tasked with getting suggestions.

[tahyri]

Once you've completely all 127 possible quests in a chain, you get some kind of epic reward.

 

 

Interesting suggestion, but what happens on day 127 when you've done all the possible quests? Do you have no more quests to do? Do you just repeat the path you preferred the most?

[BCBull]

OP, dailies are optional content for those who wish to work towards something.

 

Optional content which could have been spent on something like idk FIXING ILUM!!!!!

[Gungan]

Interesting suggestion, but what happens on day 127 when you've done all the possible quests? Do you have no more quests to do? Do you just repeat the path you preferred the most?

 

I assume after 127 days, they will have added at least one content patch. Even one new hub like this will last another 127 days.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Gungan

[Drake_Hound]

Optional content which could have been spent on something like idk FIXING ILUM!!!!!

 

Why just freaking instance Ilum and be done with it , remove incentive to grind on Ilum .

And nobody cares about ilum but some nostological person .

 

Turn Ilum into a PVE zone for dailies and be done with it .

Seriously they can´t fix illum cause way too many redundant scripts on Ilum ..

Too many damn test scripts there , for no obvious reason other then test abilities and voice overs .

 

Just move the incentive to some new zone , and off the pvpers go .

[Ansultares]

If you don't like repeating content, you're playing the wrong genre.

 

Whether you're repeating quests, flashpoints/dungeons, ops/raids, or warzones/battlegrounds, MMOGs are built on repeating content. The only alternative is to quit and jump to another game after you've run through the content once.

I don't mind repeating content; I despise being limited to doing it once per day, and having to run down the checklist of once-per-day activities if I want to play for longer than, say, 30m.

 

Dailies are alright for placating some portions of the casual masses, but don't cut it for others (who may only play every other day, for example), and nothing at all for anyone who plays a couple of hours every day.

 

If you had a rep grind, let's say, and one daily was equal to an hour of grinding, but I was still free to grind as much as I want, then maybe everyone can be happy.

 

But going hard in one direction or the other is really bad, and the daily checklist feels even more like a second job and/or a chore than making a reasonable raid schedule or lengthy mob grinds.

 

Possible alternative #1

Still relies on once-per-day content, but could be used in conjunction with another mechanic. Edited March 1, 2012 by Ansultares

[terminova]

I don't mind repeating content; I despise being limited to doing it once per day, and having to run down the checklist of once-per-day activities if I want to play for longer than, say, 30m.

 

Dailies are alright for placating some portions of the casual masses, but don't cut it for others (who may only play every other day, for example), and nothing at all for anyone who plays a couple of hours every day.

 

If you had a rep grind, let's say, and one daily was equal to an hour of grinding, but I was still free to grind as much as I want, then maybe everyone can be happy.

 

But going hard in one direction or the other is really bad, and the daily checklist feels even more like a second job and/or a chore than making a reasonable raid schedule or lengthy mob grinds.

 

Still relies on once-per-day content, but could be used in conjunction with another mechanic.

 

Lengthy mob grinds are much more of a chore than dailies ever will be. If you don't believe me, go play a grindfest MMO.

[Calei]

It's very difficult for me to say something not insulting to people who say they enjoy doing dailies.

 

NO ONE enjoys dailies. You don't do them because you like doing them; you do them because you've convinced yourself that you HAVE to do them. The rewards is what is MAKING you do them.

 

Would you do dailies if there were no rewards? Really? Yea, right...

[Koalachan]

Optional or not, forcing people to do the same stupid task (note the derogatory use of the word task as opposed to quest or mission) is bad design.

 

 

The fact that it is optional means that they are NOT forcing you to do it.

[Yakito]

They can keep adding the dailies, but I am so sick of them I am not going to even spend a second thinking whether I should waste my time on doing any. I said "NO" to them when I reached Ilum. I do the PVP ones sometimes, and the Ops ones, that's it. Mostly because of the travel system, but also because the TOR dailies are so unbelievably dull that I think I'd get an internal haemorrhage if I completed any, and I've tried. I mean... good god, I am fine with dailies such as the cooking dailies in WOW, not so bad, same with Jewelcrafting and similar, but these? Not a chance.

 

 

They REALLY need to work on inventing some new way to make us do something in game every day. If it's a quest, then at least make it interesting. OP's got a nice idea. I'd like to be able to use vehicles and machines to complete quests too.

 

A daily where you have to win 10 Pazaak games with your companions, or players.

Yes... bring Pazaak, just bring it in already.

[tyranusdarec]

Daily quests were a bad idea in WoW and thanks to the story driven aspect, even worse in TOR. One daily, when you turn it in, the NPC tells you it wont happen again. Oh but it will Mr. NPC. Tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day. Another NPC, when you turn in the daily quest, you have the option to tell them "Well you right this time..." basically like he got lucky that time. But player he has been right everyday you have done those quests.... See? That is what makes them far worse in TOR. The story causes them to be much more unimmersive.

 

I have a solution and have posted it here before. Look to another game. SWG. Yes the game we all love to hate. In that game we had daily quests. Some SWG players will deny but its true. We ran them constantly. And never once did we think "Daily quest". What am I talking about? The mission terminals. There were base destroys, mob kills, crafting, even bounty boards and faction grinds. But they were daily quests.

 

So why did those not get people's ire up over daily quests? Because they pointed in different directions and had different situations. It wasnt the same old thing of click 5 boxes in the same spot everyday.

 

But the SWG terminals were limited by the technology of the time and there is no way they could be implemented in the same way in TOR. However something similar could be added. Here me out please before flaming me.

 

First the developers get a planet. I am sure they have several in storage they havent used. The planet needs to be big and more open then the planets we have now. We will use Naboo as an example. During this time it is just being settled by outsiders.

 

Now the developers divide it into zones. In each of these zones they put the following. Native mobs (gungans), invading mobs (nabooans), named mobs, clickable objects, and green doors leading to dungeons. Some could even be heroic areas. In the middle they can put in a PVP area.

 

Next they set up the hubs. These hubs would have an actual planet story going on for both sides. For the Republic story they are trying to protect the native species of the planet. And the Sith story they are trying to get the help of the invading species. Possibly reverse that for a Shyamalan twist.

 

These stories are just like the normal stories we see. They are there to help guide us along and get to each of our quest hubs. Also in the quest hubs are the terminals. But you cant use them until you complete the planet story. Or possibly the story at each hub gets you to use them once to learn how they work.

 

So on to the terminals. They are just like the various mission terminals we see on other planets. On these give a list of quests. The quests are randomly generated. They point to zones near them and give objectives based on whats in each zone. MMO quests fall into a small group of categories. Kill, collect, and deliver. So this is what these do. They just wrap them in randomly generated stories as well with randomly generated names. Give you an example list.

 

1) Kill 10 gungans.

2) Destroy 3 gungan vehicles

3) Kill named gungan boss and 5 gungans

4) Enter a green door and kill 10 tusk cats and their matriach

5) Capture 3 Kaadu

6) Heroic 2+ Kill rebel sympathizers aiding the gungans

 

Now this is one list that could come up. Each point to different zones or the same zones but have different objectives. They also would be different tomorrow and the next day and the next.

 

Let the players either pick a specific number per day from each terminal or let them only carry 2 or 3 at a time. They could be set up to allow continued use of them over and over just lower the payout compared to what daily quests give you now. Instead of 7 and 10k plus a commendation only give a reward of 1k and a chance at a commendation on completion. Heroics I would still limit to once or twice a day though.

 

By making the quests different each time (direction, objective, and conclusion) players wont feel like they are doing daily quests even though they are.

 

And before everyone start screaming about Naboo... IT IS JUST AN EXAMPLE!

 

You could even add class terminals specific to each person's job. Bounty terminals, smuggling terminals, trooper terminals, inquisitor terminals, knight terminals, etc. Though those I would have point to locations on other planets. Set up green doors on those as well to be used for them. And the class specific terminals you could only do once or twice a day. But a smuggler could smuggle. A bounty hunter could hunt. And an agent could spy.

 

They could even tie them into the space game as well. I mean the sky is the limit here people.

 

So there it is. Flame away.

 

Tyr

Edited March 1, 2012 by tyranusdarec

[Lethality]

Why are you copying the worst thing WoW ever added to their game?!

 

Every time I see a daily I want to throttle a kitten. It's infuriating that anybody could possibly think repeatable quests constitute enjoyable gameplay!

 

Now there's going to be crafting dailies and a new daily hub every patch to 1.5?!.

 

I'll just say this: if the gameplay itself is fun, you don't look at it the same way.

[terminova]

It's very difficult for me to say something not insulting to people who say they enjoy doing dailies.

 

NO ONE enjoys dailies. You don't do them because you like doing them; you do them because you've convinced yourself that you HAVE to do them. The rewards is what is MAKING you do them.

 

Would you do dailies if there were no rewards? Really? Yea, right...

 

Just because dailies have rewards at the end does not mean someone cannot like doing dailies.

[Caelrie]

See point taken , need to make dailies BIS around 1000 dailies ...

That will keep people bussy for months

 

Can't work, because new gear tiers would have been released by then that make the offhand you're farming obsolete.

[mufutiz]

Wow was all about minimum effort for maximum timesink/=profit. From daily quests (insulting to say the least) to "hardmodes" which are the exact same encounter with slightly tweaked numbers (absolutely lazy).

 

To bad the system proved to function just fine. As long as players keep doing all that lazy content nothing is going to change.

[Cernow]

Dailies as currently implemented don't suit TOR because it is a story driven game. So when you go back day after day to the same quest NPC who repeats the same story you think "hrm, didn't I solve this for you yesterday?". It rapidly gets tedious. All they've done is copy across WoW's daily system without giving any thought to how it fits into TOR's game system. Lame.

 

I'm not opposed to a daily commendations system, it is one way of creating endgame content and gives people something to strive for. BUT ....

 

There's far too few dailies in the game, they are too story dependant and they are too time consuming in a lot of cases compared to the amount of commendations awarded and required for items. It feels like a deliberate roadblock to mask the lack of other endgame content.

 

The daily system should be more randomised, with a tasks being far more varied and changing from day to day. So that friends can still do dailies together, the unfinished dailies still in your mission log should automatically expire, so that you can pick up the new ones each day.

 

Just as there are hardmode versions of flashpoints, they could make hardmode versions of some of the best instanced planetary missions, ones that pose a genuine challenge but reward a nice crop of daily commendations for completion. I'd be happy to revisit some old content rather than mindlessly grind Belsavis dailies.

 

There also needs to be some sandboxed content added to the game to cater for the not insignificant number of players who don't enjoy dailies.

 

Endgame variety is what is required.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Cernow

[WiltenRose]

I'm sorry, but we are talking about "end-game" aren't we? By definition, it refers to the point at which new content stops. A developer can only put out so much content at a time, so there is the inevitable point where you have gone through all the content the developer created. Whether that's a whole extra bonus series for every planet or whatnot, it is still content just like the base story quests are content. When you've done it all there are only three options:

1. Stop playing, because there are no more new quests available to you.

2. Roll a new character.

3. Replay old quests until new content is created by the developer.

That's it. There are no other choices. We might argue that gear grinds via repeatable end-game quests are tedious, but by the same right, if one person will stop playing a character because there are no "new" quests, another will stop because he is fully geared out. Would you really be happy being able to get full BM armor in an afternoon? End-game grinds and limitations are a balancing act for sure, and there is probably some tweaking that BW can do to make the progression as fluid and enjoyable as possible, but the principal is solid.

 

Now, would it be nice to get some more new level-cap content? Absolutely. And we can look forward to BW releasing more Flashpoints/Ops, and I'm sure more story content as well in the future. One problem with piling up content at the level-cap, though, is that when the level cap inevitably gets raised, much of the excess content that was "end-game" no longer becomes viable. From my own experience in LOTRO I can speak to this, as every time the level cap got raised much of the level-cap content could just be skipped (I'm looking at you Enedwaith). People just wanted to push through the story to level cap, wherever that was, and so much content was missed because of it, because it had all been bunched up around 50, 60, 65, and now 75.

[Cernow]

When you've done it all there are only three options:

1. Stop playing, because there are no more new quests available to you.

2. Roll a new character.

3. Replay old quests until new content is created by the developer.

That's it. There are no other choices.

 

There's PLENTY of other choices:

 

* Sandbox content, which allows players to make their own content. Takes some of the burden off of devs needing to keep churning out new content.

* Improved PvP content that isn't just about a daily grind for commendations (lots of possibilities here)

* Improved space combat and missions, expanded beyond the current minigames to something more sophisticated and less on rails.

* Social content - festivals & contests (speeder racing etc). But none of the seasonal stuff that correlates to RL festivals please, leave that to WoW. This needs to be in keeping with SW universe.

* Player housing and/or ship customisation (lots of scope here)

* Development of companion and class storylines at endgame, perhaps providing a few extra abilities as rewards (even non game changing extra abilities would be welcome)

 

And these are just a few ideas off the top of my head. Just a few of these would give players some variety from grinding dailies and hardmodes.

 

I'm sure Bioware can come up with their own ideas if they put their minds to it. Just needs some imagination. Imagination, it's what games developers are meant to be good at, right?

 

And you can do ALL this and keep people interested without needing to raise the level cap.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Cernow

[finkelmana]

I never liked the concept of dailies. Its part of the reason I quit WoW. Logging in just to do some boring, repetitive task to get a token. Yes, they are optional, but they dont feel that way. There has to be a more entertaining way to get us to log in every day.

 

In addition to that, Im sure many servers suffer the low population mine does. This makes doing group based dailies impossible. I have yet to do a hard mode FP. There simply is no one to group with.