Keyran-Halcyon Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 So I have had this argument several times in the Alderaan wz with people, WHICH is better??? Side and Mid, or Side and Side???? Every time people mention something about a post on the forums about a whole breakdown of this wz and why side/mid is better. I have yet to see anything about this, at least nothing that had any data to support it other than just people ranting back and forth. So I decided to run some fast numbers. ***As a disclaimer this is jut my experience and I am a scrapper smuggler, so most of my time running between places is done in stealth, so I am slower. With that being said, I made sure to only time runs when stealthed so it would be equal. Here is my break down; Starting from the middle of ship (spawn point after death) running to the left mid speeder and flying to mid and then running into mid to fight on the node took approx 30 seconds. Running from mid to either side via the ramps and jumping down took approx 16 seconds and it took a little more time to run from side back to mid (depends on if you jump over the wall or run around the back side) Running from one side to the other via underground tunnel took approx 30+ seconds Starting from middle of ship (Spawn point after death) running to side speeder and flying to node took 16 seconds. **Another disclaimer, these numbers where run while I was still trying to help my team win and contributing to the wz, so they may be off. So with those numbers in mind, I think either strategy is about equal. Yes it takes less time to send "Living' reinforcements back and forth between mid and one side. However it takes longer for "dead" reinforcements to get back to mid. For the side options, it takes longer to get "living" reinforcements to come to your aide, however it is faster for "dead" reinforcements to get back to the node. I will say, Mid/side would be the best option if nobody ever died on your team. However even with a very well coordinator team, that rarely happens. Now force speed bursts, and under ground speed burst were not take into account and again this is my perspective from a scrapper smuggler's point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astterion Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I prefer Side/Mid just for a tactical advantage as its easier to coordinate incoming enemies as most people go to the central landing zone rather than taking the cooresponding side speader and running under middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Side/side is hands down factually better. The side speeders are a massive advantage. But it is harder to coordinate defense. Risk/reward. Edited February 27, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyran-Halcyon Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 I prefer Side/Mid just for a tactical advantage as its easier to coordinate incoming enemies as most people go to the central landing zone rather than taking the cooresponding side speader and running under middle. True, most players seem to not know about the far side speeders being able to take them directly to the corresponding side node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Veng Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Personally here is my take. Holding East and West is the most effective way to support the nodes. 1. 16 seconds to get rezed and travel to the far left or right cycles and fly directly to the turret you are supporting. 2. Easier for PUGs to execute this plan due to they are not the best geared and most do not play their class well. Holding Middle and east or west is most effective when: 1. Close team with great gear that knows their rolls. 2. 2 stay at each turret and 4 roam. The common elements that needs to happen for both situations. 1. COMMUNICATION - Need to call out early when forces are incoming to all your team to travel and support. 2. DON'T case people when they run away. It does not matter if they die or not. The objective is to hold the turret and down the other ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalmeseReb Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 really depends on the class comp. Side/side can be way better if you have a few consular/inq who can go under the turret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazomir Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Side/side, here is why: 1st, the other team will allways go like 1-2 to their side, rest to mid. if you go 4 on each side you get them both. 2nd speeders to the sides, insta spawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Better is whatever you can get your team to agree and act upon without any confusion. I preference middle/left as you're less likely to lose a turret because the enemy changes direction. In my premade, if we're attempting to win a left/right turret and we're over run by dots/numbers we'll all die, fly down at the same time and run over cc/gank the other turret before the enemy has time to travel and stop us. Edited February 27, 2012 by Blasphemerr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyran-Halcyon Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Better is whatever you can get your team to agree and act upon without any confusion. THIS is the biggest component. I find most pugs just have people that do whatever they want, and a mix of them that think mid/side is better and a mix that think side/side is better. When I run with a premade of 4 guildies, we always take side/side, but we are also in vent and can coordinate better. Honestly though I have yet to loose a match where we secured both sides. The biggest issue we have is the pugs that don't listen to Ops chat and just run around like tardos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnol Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Side/Side is my preferred breakout strategy. It is just so easy to hold the side turrets even heavily outnumbered. After the initial breakout you split 4-4, the most they can rush you with is 7 (unless they want to give up mid, but even that can backfire to a 3 cap) and generally it is only 6 people that go and keep 2 at mid defense and 4v7 (or 6) can take long enough for 2 from the opposite side to run under or /stuck kill themselves to come in time to stop capping for the rezzers to stream back in. In most Pug situations you will rarely have a full rush of 6-7 people and instead they stream in slowly in maybe groups of 2-4 as they rez, which can be handled easily by the respective sides without reinforcements. When it fails is if they go with a counter strat on the breakout (which won't work if your team sends an assasin to the opposing side b/c of stealth and 2 speed boosts), or when you don't leave the 2 defenders at a side node and it gets ninja'd, or when people don't rotate back after they have cleared a few attackers. But those same failures happen with the mid/side strat too, and mid/side doesn't have the huge speeder advantage of side/side. Edited February 27, 2012 by Bnol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ukita Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) I like mid/side better than side/side. I've taken on a wanderer role, since I can come in and instantly blow people away, and since defending on a gunslinger is pretty stupid, so it's easier to get from left to center, because I can just stand on the wall and overlook both points and see all incoming from either the landing point, or underneath from right. Left/right, I have to travel much farther to defend a point. It's a bit of a *****. Edited February 27, 2012 by Ukita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I find the best strat for pugs is 3 left and a right assault (Imps or Pubs) at the start What usually happens is the opposing side will take mid unopposed and then zerg their other turret to kill off your assault. This is where the two from snow (1 stays) hit mid and take it when its weakest As a Duo, me and my buddy have attempted and pulled off this strat about 5 games straight. Attempting to hold Left and right is too risky for PuGs IMO. Since pugs aren’t good at calling incoming BEFORE they are all over the point, I find it necessary to have eyes on, so mid and a side is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I am spec'd into the increased run speed on my group speed buff. I always announce east/west, myself going east (repub perspective). With my speed buff it guarantees that we cap that side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 For Alderaan the meta game keeps shifting in Civil War. Since most opening splits have a hard counter it is important to be versatile. Back in the beginning everyone would rush mid with something like 1/6/1 or 1/7/0, but even if you got mid, you would never be able to easily take either side. So the meta game shifted where you would not worry about mid, and for several weeks the best opening split was 3/2/3 or 4/1/3, and you would send a tank or a stealther mid to delay as long as possible and concentrate on taking both sides instead. But the weakness in this was that it was difficult to support one side or the other and would be hard countered by a 5/3/0, 6/2/0 or something similar. So as everyone got used to things communication became the best weapon of all. I know right? thats amazing that people figured that out. It doesn't add up that communication would give you an edge. /end sarcasm. With proper communication a 2/6/0 split ended up being the most versatile. sometimes you split a little bit different. but you send a sprinter to your left turret and someone with a charge and stuns (vanguard or guardians work well) to intercept anyone headed that way to give the sprinter enough time to cap. The communication comes into play were someone needs to watch and count how many enemies are headed to your. With 3-5 enemies headed to your left you will reinforce left side with 2-4 from mid. If 6+ are headed to your left then those left will be running delaying tactics and you send 4 to your right from mid to overwhelm the 1-2 enemies there. Ive found this to one of the best strat to use with at least half the operation being strangers. Hope it helps. Unless you are an Imp on Jekk Jekk Tar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNightfall Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Side-side is better. You can run under the middle so you can help each side just as well as side-mid. Also, the speeders on the sides don't perform the fly around when you hold the point. It's a straight shot to either side which means your defenders can hold the point easily because it's almost a standard zerg-style respawn point. You can land, AOE or dot, die, and then do it all over again in under 30 seconds if you have to. The mid the speeders force you to lose over 30 seconds just flying around the battlefield after you respawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyree Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Side/Side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheeling Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I just watch where the other team goes out of their drop zone. If only one person is coming to mid, I just start going somewhere else to try and tie them up from capping a side turret. If 6 of them go mid, I just watch my map to see where our guys are going. If I'm the only one heading mid, I'll just try to interrupt their capping of mid for as long as possible so that we can take other turrets fairly uncontested. It's amazing that in a 6v1, all 6 enemies will stay and forfeit other turrets just so they can be a part of that one kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 The problem with the side/side strategy is that you're not the first person who thought of this. If you both go side/side then the fighting becomes stalled on both side cannons (neither cap) and if you take even one person to cap the middle turret, you'll be winning because that'd be the only capped turret. You can afford to be down one man fighting at the turret closer to you even when the turret is uncapped, since it's closer to you. A middile/side strategy can simply have most of the guy going middle turn around on the ramp to the side as soon as they see the cannon is uncontested (leave one guy to cap) and at that point it's essentially a side/side strategy but you start with the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alconos Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Taking the sides is the best option IMO, i've only had one instance where we couldnt hold it, and that was because of lack of communication, trying to stay alive and type is a bit hard sometimes. They are easier to defend once taken, but the big problem is people who don't listen and dont bother to come up with a different strategy if they disagree, before I hit level 50 it seemed like most people just didn't listen and rushed middle, but these 50 warzones have much more coordinated players imo. What I usually do is have two people(a tank and healer preferably, as they can last a much longer time if reinforcements are slow) hold the left, while everyone else mobs the right, and then disperse when needed for defense. But the risk there is if the left side is held by, say, two dps, and the enemy zergs that side, they can easily take mid and left. Edited February 27, 2012 by Alconos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Marou_ Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Side/side usually fails in pugs, and since you can't pre-made a full team it has a high failure rate (period) in my experience. What happens is most players in a PuG want to zerg around randomly and farm medals. Meaning the side that gets attacked goes to 6-7 people while the other side shrinks to 1-2. A smart opposing team will zerg 2 or so players to one side and keep them fighting long enough to get most of their team over there as reinforcements, then while it's being hit and they are all frolicking around hit the other node with 3-4, quickly crush the sad 1-2 guys left there, and GG. It fails because it takes a long time to run from east to west, much longer than it does to drop from mid-->side. Just my opinion, your experience may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirolos Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 For Alderaan the meta game keeps shifting in Civil War. Since most opening splits have a hard counter it is important to be versatile. Back in the beginning everyone would rush mid with something like 1/6/1 or 1/7/0, but even if you got mid, you would never be able to easily take either side. So the meta game shifted where you would not worry about mid, and for several weeks the best opening split was 3/2/3 or 4/1/3, and you would send a tank or a stealther mid to delay as long as possible and concentrate on taking both sides instead. But the weakness in this was that it was difficult to support one side or the other and would be hard countered by a 5/3/0, 6/2/0 or something similar. So as everyone got used to things communication became the best weapon of all. I know right? thats amazing that people figured that out. It doesn't add up that communication would give you an edge. /end sarcasm. With proper communication a 2/6/0 split ended up being the most versatile. sometimes you split a little bit different. but you send a sprinter to your left turret and someone with a charge and stuns (vanguard or guardians work well) to intercept anyone headed that way to give the sprinter enough time to cap. The communication comes into play were someone needs to watch and count how many enemies are headed to your. With 3-5 enemies headed to your left you will reinforce left side with 2-4 from mid. If 6+ are headed to your left then those left will be running delaying tactics and you send 4 to your right from mid to overwhelm the 1-2 enemies there. Ive found this to one of the best strat to use with at least half the operation being strangers. Hope it helps. Unless you are an Imp on Jekk Jekk Tar. What me and some other people started doing is Sending 2 to our west, and 2mid while 4 people watch what the enemy zergs and then we defend and spread according to what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Internicio Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I prefer side/side because in most situations you can defend both sides indefinitely with two independent 4-person groups mid/side counts on people reacting quickly (and not overreacting) to changing events because you cannot protect mid indefinitely with fewer than about 6 and cannot defend a side indefinitely with fewer than 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai-Eurah-Tird Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I much prefer going 2 side (east or west) and 6 mid. Simply because if the enemy team goes side/side. 4 of our guys can peel off from mid and swing to the side, catching the other team from behind. But this is simply the first minute of the game, Alderaan cheifly depends on a few factors: 1. Communication - Do you know how to call out attack? Very simple, but even the top PVPers make the mistake of not calling out an atack. THinking they can easily take out the attacker and some time they do, but some time they get overwhelmed by stealthers. 2. Experience - Do you know the tricks of the ninja cappers? You'd be staring out at the direction you'd though they're going to come by, and they're already behind you capping your turret. Do you know to fight at the turret and not in the middle of no where? Do you know that two defenders at a turret is the minimum to keep the turret safe while the rest of the team is out defending/attacking? Do you know how to count? 3 people sitting around doing anothing at a turret does nothing to help your team? 3. Gear - Pretty simple, a group of fully geared champions will always kick the **** out of a bunch of fresh fifties, who just came from 10-49 without doing anything preparation for the 50 breacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickinhead Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 srsly? is this really being discussed? Holding the sides is basicay an autowin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 What me and some other people started doing is Sending 2 to our west, and 2mid while 4 people watch what the enemy zergs and then we defend and spread according to what they do. if you send 6 mid, the 4 can break of from mid and jump down the ledge within seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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