hulkweazel Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Just wondering how viable this is for HMs and Ops. Currently leveling an Op, 11 healing rest Concealment which has served me well so far for leveling and PvP purposes while being enough to heal in lowbie FPs. I don't mind respeccing to heals but I just want to see if the option is open to switch to DPS. I've read a lot of the problems people have brought up about the other trees, but even still, has any Concealment/Lethality Op done fine for HMs and Ops? Or is it just not viable? Edited February 26, 2012 by hulkweazel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-cart Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 DPS Operatives are at the bottom of the list for HM and Ops. We can lock down in PvP, not PvE. Healing Operatives are decent, but there are better healers than us. Concealment Operatives are built for one thing only, player killing and we aren't as good as before. We can still hack it in PvP, but PvE is just an up hill battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jashinoke Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 From my personal experience I find lethality to be better in pve. It allows for more uptime on bosses due to dots than does concealment. You burst as hard as you do with concealment, but I feel that the sustained uptime that leathlity can achieve more than makes up for it. This is all mostly conjecture though as there are no dps meters to back up with hard data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe_ Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 This reality (the above replies) is so sad. Has anyone seen any dev replies or input or thought whatsoever? It seems like the entire endgame community believes this pve uselessness ... just wondering if anyone's come across any inkling of a hint that we might get somewhat buffed for pve utility. I have seen nothing of the sort in the many threads on the forum, but it's hard to search for this kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdivinexdawnx Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Concealment Ops are viable in both hardmodes and operations. The damage they do is fine, despite what some people may say. I am a concealment op with the unyielding title. In my opinion concealment dps is on par with everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangnz Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Concealment Ops are viable in both hardmodes and operations. The damage they do is fine, despite what some people may say. I am a concealment op with the unyielding title. In my opinion concealment dps is on par with everyone else. This, I think a lot of the whining that has gone on around operatives has kinda of skewed the opinions of a lot of people, when played well operatives dps is on par with most other dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manigma Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 This, I think a lot of the whining that has gone on around operatives has kinda of skewed the opinions of a lot of people, when played well operatives dps is on par with most other dps. How do you know in PVE what your damage is compared to others in the raid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) I did HM Operations as concealment. But I recently switched the Lethality. Funny thing is I really don't know for certain which is doing more damage, I'm just feeling more comfortable with the fact that I only have to be in melee to shiv and don't have to always be behind the target. So we have no meters, but judging from my experiences in HM FPs where it's just me and one other DPS I feel very much on par with whatever class I'm going with just based on how fast we kill individual targets and so on. Or when one of us is the only dps alive because something ****** happened. Edited February 27, 2012 by chuixupu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangnz Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 How do you know in PVE what your damage is compared to others in the raid? Directly you can't but you can normally get a feel for it in Hard Mode flashpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe_ Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Very nice to see a voice or two of reason guys, thanks. Edited February 27, 2012 by Poe_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenjohnp Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) The reality is that Operatives have the worst PvE DPS in the game. This is simply fact and is understandable really since they are a burst DPS class which is not designed to be used in PvE especially when they are reliant on stealth opener. They are a PvP class. You make think you do "good" DPS and have run Operations etc, but at the end of the day, every class still out-dpses you. Edited February 27, 2012 by stephenjohnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thankyjack Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 The reality is that Operatives have the worst PvE DPS in the game. This is simply fact and is understandable really since they are a burst DPS class which is not designed to be used in PvE. They are a PvP class. You make think you do "good" DPS and have run Operations etc, but at the end of the day, every class still out-dpses you. The reality is that you don't know anything about comparative dps without logs. Concealment ops are clearing all content. That's all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenjohnp Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) The reality is that you don't know anything about comparative dps without logs. Concealment ops are clearing all content. That's all that matters. You don't need to. The nature of their DPS is enough proof. In PvE they want sustained DPS, Operatives do not have a reliable sustained DPS build, therefore they are worse than every other class as every other class has a reliable sustained DPS build. Edited February 27, 2012 by stephenjohnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdivinexdawnx Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Concealment ops sustained is fine. It's not as bursty as you think. Really, the only difference between when you do sustained and when you do burst is when you use relics and adrenals, and you can run yourself to about half energy and use ad. probe. I like to save it in case i mess up though. Edited February 27, 2012 by xdivinexdawnx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemoor Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 2 Lethality ops in our group - we burn down Malgus to 10% before he even stuns the 3rd party member and we have to wait 2 more stuns to drag him to the bridge. Also we clean BoI HM without enrage issues. In FE HM we burn down 1 robot of 2 robots mini-boss before they switch shields. That's enough dps if you ask me. And without dps meter there is no way to tell who has more dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenjohnp Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) 2 Lethality ops in our group - we burn down Malgus to 10% before he even stuns the 3rd party member and we have to wait 2 more stuns to drag him to the bridge. Also we clean BoI HM without enrage issues. In FE HM we burn down 1 robot of 2 robots mini-boss before they switch shields. That's enough dps if you ask me. And without dps meter there is no way to tell who has more dps. Pointless to say these things. Every class is viable in Hardmode/Nightmare Ops. Some are just far superior to others. Also, using Hardmodes as an example is even worse since ever Hardmode is a joke. The only boss where DPS need to put out is Bulwark. While Lethality is a decent sustained DPS spec, unfortunately due to the lack of a convenient TA generator and energy regeneration issues, they just fall short of other sustained DPS classes. Edited February 27, 2012 by stephenjohnp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMooMs Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 yeh i have a feeling our sustained will be better then people say as well, as long as we can stay alive in nightmare modes, i did a few and was suprised at my damage, but at the same token it was kinda hard to avoid the consistant damage from fights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 How do you know without a combat log? there are zero numbers to back up anyone's findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryemfoh Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 They are a PvP class. I'm so sick of hearing this ... I played Sub Rogue before it was cool in WoW, and I can confirm that Concealment Operative (as with their WoW counterpart) is perfectly viable in PVE. However, it does require very careful management of resources and cooldowns. If we had logs you may not be at the very top, but I suspect you'd comfortably beat any lesser-skilled player on a more powerful class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizel Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) I am a firm believer that player skill can exceed the boundaries of class limitation. I raid as a concealment operative. My guild has killed soa on 16 man nightmare. At no point was I a detriment to my raid force. Until we have an actual combat log to parse with an external utility such as ACT, nobody can say for sure, but my dps in raids "feels" adequate if not optimal as a tier 1 dps class. People say we lack raid utility, but I can combat rez, and spot heal my teammates to alleviate the pressure on our healers, is that not utility that is viable? Below is a frapsed server first kill of 16 NM soa that I did, its incredibly sloppy, and it came really close to being yet another wipe, but we got the job done in the end. You can ask my guildmates, and none of them will tell you that they would have preferred another burst dps class over myself. We ARE viable in progression content as concealment, and anyone that would tell you otherwise is simply misguided. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bX-xYDRHrM&context=C33b68ebADOEgsToPDskK3U_6yu6zNZMDzk9wJ_Xp5 Edited February 27, 2012 by Nizel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rannon Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) I have been playing an op since launch and this is what i have seen so far. For KP Concealment seems to be the best. There are a lot of fights, mainly the puzzle boss where Burst Damage is better. You don't have a lot of time to hit the boss so you need to be able to put as much down as fast as you can. So i use Concealment for KP. For EV i use Lethality because of the better sustained damage over the fights and also on Garje you don't loose as much DPS while Island Hopping and running in and out. Also the Infernal Counsel is a lot easier as Lethality. I have done it on Nightmare as both, but with Concealment you loose half your DPS due to the fact that you cant use your positional damage such as Backstab. So Lethality becomes a much better spec for this fight. This is just my personal opinion really. You should play whatever/however you like. Edit: Wow bad grammer, sorry i have the worst cold ever right now and don't feel like editing it for spelling/grammer LoL. Edited February 27, 2012 by Rannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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