Dulark Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) So ok i got a lvl 50 operative and a lvl 50 sniper. My question is this - why do we have cover? i mean all we do is aim and pull a trigger, id assume people can do this while moving, i mean they do it in real life aswell. Whereas a sorcerer/sage has to concentrate and use special hand symbols to pull off their stuff yet they seem to be able to do this while running at Mach 2. what gives Edit: Not even merc/troopers have cover and they also run around shooting things so what gives? Edited February 26, 2012 by Dulark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meankeb Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Unique mechanic to give the smuggler a sneaky feel. I do not see it as anything more than that, and I do not believe that the class is overall balanced around it, as you're out of cover for most of your Scoundrel life (although, hiding/healing may be a factor that they took into consideration). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dulark Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) I asked about COVER not stealth. Take Cover, Crouch etc. and stealth isnt a unique mechanic btw. Edited February 26, 2012 by Dulark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 It's quite simple actually. The smuggler class was the last to be created in this game. They first designed the jedi knight/sith warrior, then the consular/inquisitor, then the trooper. Then they were running out of ideas for a special mechanic for their last class. Stealth was a given, so they gave that to the operative. Then they, as Bioware, remembered that people enjoyed their cover system in Mass Effect so they decided to throw it in and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dulark Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) .... thats like a restaurant saying "hey those people liked the dressing on their salad, lets put some into the souffle. my point is that i dont see there being any in game reason for it, its just an added crutch to a class that doesent need it, if you could use Snipe or Explosive Droid(charged blast/demo charge) they would be alot better to use.. also the bug with roots making us unable to take cover is bloody annoying. Edited February 26, 2012 by Dulark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melkathi Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 your point is that there is no in-game reason. ZD agreed with you and gave you the most likely, even if cynical, out of game reason. There is no in-game reason. They needed the class to stand out from teh rest and used a mechanic they have in another game. They couldn't use it for Troopers, as the "fantasy" for those is to heroicaly and unflinching stride into battle, guns blazing. The gunslinger/sniper are more aimed at people who, watching an action movie, will say "You know? If I was getting shot at, I think I'd get out of the way of the bullets..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahiel Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 The problem isn't just that cover exists, but that so many important abilities (at least, as a Gunslinger) cannot be used except from cover. If it was just a defensive bonus, maybe an energy regen increase (like Foxhole gives), with a few non-key abilities limited to cover, it would not feel nearly so restrictive. Taking cover from gunfire is totally reasonable, thematically. Being unable to shoot effectively except from cover is a bit sillier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dulark Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) you put it much more eloquently than i could have. Basically ye stuff like Orbital Strike/Drop could be a cover only ability (oddly its not lol) and like the concept of cover is "ok im gonna be in for a long fight, time to get into cover to get my defensive bonuses/offensive buffs) but having to get into cover for every.. singe.. fight.. is just tedious and if the enemy has a root impossible. Edited February 26, 2012 by Dulark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngrySoviet Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 The way I see it, Trooper/Bounty Hunters don't need cover because they have heavy armor, and, as someone said, they are supposed to march heroically in battle. The smuggler/Agent is a light armor class, more tactical based, so it is more focused on taking cover and taking potshots. Also, it makes sense you have to take cover for some of your abilities. It's a lot easier to snipe/headshot someone if you're standing still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dulark Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) And shooting mortar shells, missles, wielding a minigun is usually done while running around? (also we wear medium armor) not to mention picking up giant rocks and hurling them at people. Cover should feel like a bonus, a way we can counter something or something that gives us an edge in combat. (Ballistic shield and Entrench is the best example of this, its not something you NEED to do but something you CAN do in certain situations) At the moment it feels as though Cover is crippling and dragging us down in combat. (the fact that when were rooted we cant get into cover, all our main attacks as gunslinger are tied to cover and the fact we cant use our ranged attacks as a scoundrel because wed have to get into cover for them meaning our enemy can run away and since we dont have any gap closer that spells death for us) Edited February 26, 2012 by Dulark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabredance Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Cover is not bad. Just remove the cover restriction from some abilities and make cover protect against some yellow damage attacks. I would love to see Charged burst build up on the Move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYDIGH Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I have no problem with cover i spend most of my time out of it and do fine. But there are situations where cover is nice. For example if there is a group fight you can hit cover keep your distance and do some serious damage for your team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leiralei Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Cover was invented as a counter to the marauder/sentinel jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiendclub Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I do agree....cover system sucks for PVP. Hey, you shotting at me. Well....let me take a knee before I can bust out the good moves. The best is when you use take cover and then combat roll into a group of sith. gotta love that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrantOfNordberg Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 And shooting mortar shells, missles, wielding a minigun is usually done while running around? umm... well no. Mortar volley, tracer missle, grav round is all channeled so they do stand still. I have no problem with the commando running around with a minigun. The superior firepower means they can run around and shoot wildly. I mean do you expect a commando to go into cover with a minigun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dulark Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 my point was that you dont have to go into a superfluous "stance" in order to pull off your abilities even tho in real life to set up a mortar youd have to set it up first etc, to use a RPG you most definetly would have to take a knee whereas in this game its reversed, you see people running around and shooting missles from their hands or from their minigun-cannons while jumping, yet when a guy just wants to shoot their sidearm they have to sit down, wait to charge it up and then only can they fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacity Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 So ok i got a lvl 50 operative and a lvl 50 sniper. My question is this - why do we have cover? i mean all we do is aim and pull a trigger, id assume people can do this while moving, i mean they do it in real life aswell. Whereas a sorcerer/sage has to concentrate and use special hand symbols to pull off their stuff yet they seem to be able to do this while running at Mach 2. what gives Edit: Not even merc/troopers have cover and they also run around shooting things so what gives? Have you ever tried to fire a gun (accurately) while moving? It isnt easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I like the cover system as it is. I mean, we're smugglers - Not Jedi. Not Troopers, who are bred for combat. We are scrappers so we have to keep our head down, and stay out of the way. I do feel hindered when im not behind cover...rightfully so. But when i am in cover i feel that it is everyone else who is suddenly at a disadvantage. either way - L2P or L2RP lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnclearImage Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) The delay in PvP makes cover suck because you have to stop, make sure your chara is firmly planted on the ground (if you're on a ledge you get a bug reply of "unknown ability effect* or some crap) Cast cover, run through the animation, slight delay and attack, I've stunned people and spent that time trying to get INTO cover- total waste of that stun. Cover is a nice idea because we're aiming, we're sniping- contrary to television and public opnion real life snipers don't run around like idiots, they stop, and make deliberate attacks. I agree in-game cover is kinda stupid, I'd rather lose the giant blue "COME SHOOT ME" cover mechanic, and since I hate rolling across the freakin entire map out of line of sight my key is always binded to "cover in place" Edited February 27, 2012 by UnclearImage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ukita Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Unique mechanic to give the smuggler a sneaky feel. I do not see it as anything more than that, and I do not believe that the class is overall balanced around it, as you're out of cover for most of your Scoundrel life (although, hiding/healing may be a factor that they took into consideration). I rolled a Vanguard and kept instinctively hitting my cover keys... To me, every other class now lacks depth without cover (as buggy and annoying as it is, I love it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootshoot Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Cover is a gimmick skill. This class reminds me of the Paladin seal based system when WOW released. The designers thought they thought of something "cool and unique" but the gameplay execution is total garbage. It took Blizzard close to 5 years to scrap the Seal system so we shall see for those sticking around how long Bioware takes to revamp.... Edited February 28, 2012 by scootshoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolshortte Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 There was a time when i hated the cover mechanic. But i didnt know the advantage it gave me at the time. While you may feel its a hinderance, its actually a great tool most classes have to do without. Vanguards and their mirror class cannot use alot of their tools against targets in cover You cannot be charged while in cover You take less damage from ranged opponents if behind natural cover and if specced for it You cannot be interuppted while in cover With Hunker Down activated we are the only class who cannot be CC'd while in cover We are a Long Range class, in most cases you can see your mid/close range opponent coming, take cover before he gets in his firing range. But if you still feel strongly that cover isnt for you, try the Dirty Fighting Talent Tree for smugglers, its more run and gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnoams Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I don't understand these posts about cover being a crutch, or how it sucks that smugglers have to use it... 1- you dont have to use it, there are plenty of builds where you never use it and 2- its a HUGE benifit. You can tank ranged bosses better than any tanking class by just crouching behind a chair. I figure the people who whine about the cover system must be pvpers who don't like sitting still while they shoot. But even in pvp it provides advantages like immunity to grapple and charging. If you are a gunslinger, learn to love it. Its a benifit, not a penalty. If you don't like it, play a scoundrel and you'll never use it. Or even go grenadier or dirty fighting gunslinger and you wont need to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 There was a time when i hated the cover mechanic. But i didnt know the advantage it gave me at the time. While you may feel its a hinderance, its actually a great tool most classes have to do without. Vanguards and their mirror class cannot use alot of their tools against targets in cover You cannot be charged while in cover You take less damage from ranged opponents if behind natural cover and if specced for it You cannot be interuppted while in cover With Hunker Down activated we are the only class who cannot be CC'd while in cover We are a Long Range class, in most cases you can see your mid/close range opponent coming, take cover before he gets in his firing range. But if you still feel strongly that cover isnt for you, try the Dirty Fighting Talent Tree for smugglers, its more run and gun. Pretty much in the nutshell in pvp when peeps just ignore u its great the ability to drop it anywhere is like crazy nice it has crazy benefits and not like you can't move at will. Cover is sweet I run and gun/grenade and use cover when needed man its pretty sweet in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagaNerezza Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I don't understand these posts about cover being a crutch, or how it sucks that smugglers have to use it... 1- you dont have to use it, there are plenty of builds where you never use it and 2- its a HUGE benifit. You can tank ranged bosses better than any tanking class by just crouching behind a chair. I figure the people who whine about the cover system must be pvpers who don't like sitting still while they shoot. But even in pvp it provides advantages like immunity to grapple and charging. If you are a gunslinger, learn to love it. Its a benifit, not a penalty. If you don't like it, play a scoundrel and you'll never use it. Or even go grenadier or dirty fighting gunslinger and you wont need to use it. I think most people think its broken it terms of being required on so many core skills. I agree. I also think the fact we have a stupid, hey this guy is targeting me I should break los is just freaking nuts. I'd like that against stealth guys. A huge hey backstab is coming pop ur defenses warning symbol. If they removed that I'd be pleased. If they bothered to even care about the 1% of people playing the class gunslinger I'd be happy. Mabe I should say I am a Sith. That might get someone to bother to read how borked this AC is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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