1.1.5 - death of rarity and achievements?!

[Arnathis]

Non-raiders are "baddies"? Wishing for content that provides a long lasting character progression in the same fashion raiders get is "greedy"?

 

Sigh, this mentality is irritating. Non-raiders would like content that they are compatible with in order to maximize their character progression. They do not want "free", they want "different". On a personal level, nothing makes me hit that cancel button faster than a glass ceiling and I think that BioWare would do well to create quite a few alternate paths to maximum character progression if they wish to retain the bulk of their subscribers.

 

Give us an example of content that should reward the same benefits a raid team gets.

 

If you want some optional quest lines that takes weeks/months to complete and in the end gets you fully decked out in epics and a unique speeder I'm cool with that but realize that it would take BW an enormous amount of resources to create and maintain. More voice overs, more design time, more art, more cut scenes etc.

 

Raiding and PvP are supposed to be what you do to progress your character. If you don;t enjoy either of them I don't know what to tell you.

[Niil]

Give us an example of content that should reward the same benefits a raid team gets.

 

If you want some optional quest lines that takes weeks/months to complete and in the end gets you fully decked out in epics and a unique speeder I'm cool with that but realize that it would take BW an enormous amount of resources to create and maintain. More voice overs, more design time, more art, more cut scenes etc.

 

Raiding and PvP are supposed to be what you do to progress your character. If you don;t enjoy either of them I don't know what to tell you.

 

Why should someone be required to do weeks/months worth of quests to get the same gear that raiding get you in a week or two tops?

 

Edit: And that week or two tops is actually worth maybe 6 hours of raiding.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Niil

[Sky_walkerPL]

I see no problem with this, as a person that dose not play with a huge amount of people i will never do anything above a 4 man flash point (unless you can do 8 man raids with 4 players and 4 companions) and i never cared for pvp at all. and because i do not do raids and PvP i am not allowed to have certain things in the game?

 

personally i would like it if everything in the game could be bought sooner or later for the right amount of creds.

Yep. That's exactly how the video games are made.

You don't play a game - you don't get stuff in game.

 

Every single-player game - you don't play campagin - you don't see all the missions and get all the game expirience.

Total War series - you don't play the game you don't get all factions unlocked. You don't play multiplayer - you don't get multiplayer unlocks.

Battlefield 3 - you don't play the game you don't get all unlocks. You don't play co-op you don't get co-op unlocks, you don't play tank driver - you don't get tank unlocks.

Every RPG - you don't play the game you don't unlock stuff in it.

 

Ofq. there are also casual games:

Minesweeper - you don't play the game - you don't unlock anything, you play the game - you don't unlock anything

 

But that's completely different story.

 

So to answer your question:

"And because i do not do raids and PvP i am not allowed to have certain things in the game?"

YES - that's EXACTLY how it SHOULD be.

No bothering == no rewards.

 

Ofq. that doesn't mean that crafters or questers shouldn't get any rewards at all - currently crafters get money and pride, questers get daily commendation allowing them to get best implants/ear pices as well as very cool speeders, and so on. I'm all fine with making wide range of play-styles get their rewards but asking for all the rewards to fit your play-style is ridiculous IMO.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL

[DieAlteHexe]

Give us an example of content that should reward the same benefits a raid team gets.

 

If you want some optional quest lines that takes weeks/months to complete and in the end gets you fully decked out in epics and a unique speeder I'm cool with that but realize that it would take BW an enormous amount of resources to create and maintain. More voice overs, more design time, more art, more cut scenes etc.

 

That's exactly what I want, anyway. And there wouldn't even need to be more than, say, one cutscene to start off. Off I'd go, tra la, tra la to do whatever. Then maybe a quick one at the end to hand over the goods. BW is already recycling a lot of generic dialog anyway so...

 

Raiding and PvP are supposed to be what you do to progress your character. If you don;t enjoy either of them I don't know what to tell you.

 

Well, those aren't the only way to "progress your character", that's kind of one of the sub-plots here. Raiding is great, PvP as well, but questers like to progress too. ALL player types should be able to aspire to über stuff (important bit next) FOR THEIR PLAYER TYPE. I don't want nor need PvP or raid stat items if I'm not doing either of those. Conversely because I am not doing one or both of those, I still would like to work toward the "bestest" just as raiders and PvPers do.

 

BW would be smart to make sure ALL play-styles have tough but eventually achievable awards. And, players must realise that in order to keep the game somewhat fresh, new rewards will be introduced relegating the previous "bestest" to, not-so-much. Carrot/stick. For all!

Edited February 26, 2012 by DieAlteHexe

[chton]

Wow... I'm amazed.

 

So seriously folks - you don't care about achieving anything and seeing all the stuff handled to you on a silver plate is fine?!

 

Now I'm even more astonished.

 

So maybe we'll just skip the leveling, give everyone button "insta 50 + all gear" and the issues are solved?! Cause that's what you see to be fine.

 

 

 

What's the point of this game than? If not playing to achieve something? When huge pile of cool items will be on a free give-away promotion till 1.2?

 

You know... I spend time in this game to get some cool things, enjoy helping others achieve what they seek for, support friends, and do my best to get stuff I want.

Now with 1.1.5 suddenly it all stops making sense when you can buy items for cash worth of 30 minutes doing space missions.

 

 

 

 

 

No man, you were just very lucky, that's all.

 

And I wasn't looking for random magenta. More like - specific one

 

 

So.. what's the point than?

I'm a semi-casual player. Don't have children yet, but I got work and play only in my free time. Still though - achieving something in a game is very cool, rewarding thing. When everything is given away for free than... I don't see a point in playing such a game.

 

What's the point of PvE than? PvP still remains fun for the sake of playing with real players, but PvE? It's all gear and teaching people to click in right moments, now when you give away the gear for free it starts to be nonsense. Why should I even bother with the game than when everything I can get is given to me for no cost as soon as I ding 50?

 

It's ridiculous logic. There's no target, nothing to keep playing for, so... why should I even bother?

 

But that all by itself still is a different issue from major one:

- Everyone who achieved something get kicked in the rear with 1.1.5 release.

 

You still keep missing the fact that the achievement should be what you are proud of, not showing off afterwards. Seems like you have your priorities screwed up. So if there was no show off drops you wouldn't bother trying to achieve these things? Never mind you've already answered that. That's what sad to me. I can enjoy the fact that I know I did it and the item is simply a reward, not the goal. If you can't then I guess you care more about what people think of you than what you think about yourself.

[Arnathis]

Well, those aren't the only way to "progress your character", that's kind of one of the sub-plots here. Raiding is great, PvP as well, but questers like to progress too. ALL player types should be able to aspire to über stuff (important bit next) FOR THEIR PLAYER TYPE. I don't want nor need PvP or raid stat items if I'm not doing either of those. Conversely because I am not doing one or both of those, I still would like to work toward the "bestest" just as raiders and PvPers do.

 

BW would be smart to make sure ALL play-styles have tough but eventually achievable awards. And, players must realise that in order to keep the game somewhat fresh, new rewards will be introduced relegating the previous "bestest" to, not-so-much. Carrot/stick. For all!

 

 

Here's the thing too, BW and other companies put a tremendous amount of work into their endgame content, they want to encourage players to experience it.

 

Allowing people to gain equal rewards through questing works against their design philosophy and divides the community further. This is a massively multiplayer game, I don't think it makes sense to create content that allows people to isolate themselves from the community but still reap the same level of rewards as everyone else.

[Sky_walkerPL]

That's what sad to me. I can enjoy the fact that I know I did it and the item is simply a reward, not the goal. If you can't then I guess you care more about what people think of you than what you think about yourself.

Oh... so everyone who enjoy getting rewards for achieving something nice in video game have problems with self-esteem?

ROTFL

 

 

If we would live in the world you try to describe we'd have forums full of people being proud of reaching highest point of Alderaan, lowest point of Tatoone, standing on a Krayt Dragon skeleton or killing Terentatek on Tatooine.

But for some reason... we don't.

 

Besides - that's not a topic of amateur psychoanalysis.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL

[chton]

Oh... so everyone who enjoy getting rewards for achieving something nice in video game have problems with self-esteem?

ROTFL

 

 

If it would be so we'd have forums full of people being proud of reaching highest point of Alderaan, lowest point of Tatoone, standing on a Krayt Dragon skeleton or killing Terentatek on Tatooine.

But for some reason... we don't.

 

Yet again you don't seem to get it. I like to achieve things, I think that's fine. What's sad is the need to show it off. Obviously you are more concerned with what people think you've done then what you've actually done. Otherwise, like me you wouldn't feel kicked if some one else has what I have. I know how I got it. I know what it took. You seem to need others to know. I understand that lots of people need that, still makes it sad in my opinion.

Stop saying it's about devaluing achievement when its only about devaluing what other people think about you. You still achieved it, but I guess with out a sign to say so it doesn't matter to you.

[DieAlteHexe]

Here's the thing too, BW and other companies put a tremendous amount of work into their endgame content, they want to encourage players to experience it.

 

Allowing people to gain equal rewards through questing works against their design philosophy and divides the community further. This is a massively multiplayer game, I don't think it makes sense to create content that allows people to isolate themselves from the community but still reap the same level of rewards as everyone else.

 

Ermm...what?

 

Who says that end-game for questers would be solo? Or did I misunderstand that. In fact, it would be pretty cool to have it be, as in other games, small groups like, oh...4 (so either 4 players or 2 players + 2 companions). Or, not. Even if it is solo...so what? How's that detract from what raiders or PvPers do? It doesn't.

 

MMP doesn't mean we gotta all do things as a herd. It simply means that a bunch of us are playing simultaneously.

 

And again (gnah!) no one is saying SAME REWARDS. That'd be silly. I don't want PvP stat rewards if I'm not PvPing BUT I think it would be fine to have the equivalent...erm..."strength" rewards for questers/solo-ers...etc. So, a PvPer strives to get really good stats so he/she can prevail at PvP, yes? Why not allow other types the same option? The really "good stuff" within their type play style?

[utio]

Here's the thing too, BW and other companies put a tremendous amount of work into their endgame content, they want to encourage players to experience it.

 

Allowing people to gain equal rewards through questing works against their design philosophy and divides the community further. This is a massively multiplayer game, I don't think it makes sense to create content that allows people to isolate themselves from the community but still reap the same level of rewards as everyone else.

 

Where's the sense in creating a game that is centred around you being the hero, playing your story, getting to save the galaxy, then at lvl 50 being told to go group and raid for the rest of your sub if you want better gear? Why go to all that effort concentrating on making the game based on solo story and then decide not to add any more because there's raiding you can do?

[CptKloss]

Yet again you don't seem to get it. I like to achieve things, I think that's fine. What's sad is the need to show it off. Obviously you are more concerned with what people think you've done then what you've actually done. Otherwise, like me you wouldn't feel kicked if some one else has what I have. I know how I got it. I know what it took. You seem to need others to know. I understand that lots of people need that, still makes it sad in my opinion.

Stop saying it's about devaluing achievement when its only about devaluing what other people think about you. You still achieved it, but I guess with out a sign to say so it doesn't matter to you.

 

seems to me that you're trying very hard to deny the reality of human nature. i somewhat understand, all this hard socio-engeneering work being done on western societies needs to bear some short-term effects, but it will all end in a cataclysm sooner or later.

[Sky_walkerPL]

makes you "feel" like they have degraded what you did, that they took away the "accomplishment" you did, you have self esteem issues and a low value of self worth, you should see a counselor and work on these issues

 

even your name is more indications of your self hate, you want to associate your self with the "hero", so you named yourself after him, you have issues

Hahahaha

Oh man, you've got some serious problems.

 

ps. and: no dude, my nick doesn't have anything in common with "skywalker" like in Star Wars. No matter what your childish psychoanalysis attempt tries to show.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL

[owenthorn]

Hahahaha

Oh man, you've got some serious problems

 

This is called redirecting, you are trying to deflect the issue at hand and get peoples attention to focus on someone or something else

[Arnathis]

Ermm...what?

 

Who says that end-game for questers would be solo? Or did I misunderstand that. In fact, it would be pretty cool to have it be, as in other games, small groups like, oh...4 (so either 4 players or 2 players + 2 companions). Or, not. Even if it is solo...so what? How's that detract from what raiders or PvPers do? It doesn't.

 

MMP doesn't mean we gotta all do things as a herd. It simply means that a bunch of us are playing simultaneously.

 

And again (gnah!) no one is saying SAME REWARDS. That'd be silly. I don't want PvP stat rewards if I'm not PvPing BUT I think it would be fine to have the equivalent...erm..."strength" rewards for questers/solo-ers...etc. So, a PvPer strives to get really good stats so he/she can prevail at PvP, yes? Why not allow other types the same option? The really "good stuff" within their type play style?

 

If you aren't looking to play solo then go do operations? Are they not epic level quests essentially?

[DieAlteHexe]

If you aren't looking to play solo then go do operations? Are they not epic level quests essentially?

 

Are they? I haven't had a chance to do but Esseles (hope I didn't butcher that too badly). I play at very "off-times" and in fits and starts so I'm not a good "bet" in groups. Understandably people want me to, y'know, actually be there.

 

What puzzles me is that some folks seem so vehmently opposed to soloers. Gaming companies have finally seen that there are a lot of 'em (thank goodness). Soloers like to achieve too, in fact many soloers are the "wanna do it myself!" types for the challenge of seeing if they can and working out how they can.

 

I really, REALLY see no harm in having "cool stuff" for all playstyles. It would be financially smart, it would make everyone happier and, dream on LOL!, it just might stop these bickering threads if we all had a shot at what was best for our styles.

 

Yeah. Optimist...me.

Edited February 26, 2012 by DieAlteHexe
speeling is gud

[Mineria]

This whole "epeen" thing baffles me, truly does.

 

It's not about you, it's not about me, it's about everyone that plays SWTOR.

Some people need that epeen while other don't care.

[CptKloss]

Soloers like to achieve too, in fact many soloers are the "wanna do it myself!" types for the challenge of seeing if they can and working out how they can.

 

I really, REALLY see no harm in having "cool stuff" for all playstyles. It would be financially smart, it would make everyone happier and, dream on LOL!, it just might stop these bickering threads if we all had a shot at what was best for our styles.

 

Yeah. Optimist...me.

 

and giving stuff away for worthless credits is that "achivement" you're talking about?

[DieAlteHexe]

It's not about you, it's not about me, it's about everyone that plays SWTOR.

Some people need that epeen while other don't care.

 

Understandable BUT I'm not sure it's wise to subject "everyone" to the needs of...well, how many? What percentage? I doubt it's the majority anyway.

[Vlaxitov]

Obviously you are more concerned with what people think you've done then what you've actually done.

 

You're obviously just as concerned since you engage in shameless self promotion with "I do it cause I know I'm cool" type comments that are nothing more than panhandling for praise in a video game forum.

 

When game makers trivialize past rewards in their games it kills any incentive for whatever current rewards there are to be strived for. Why would I spend hours of effort trying to get something in a game if I know the next month it will just be handed to any keyturning bad who plays 1-4 hours a month?

 

You say its about showing off in game but that isn't what drove me to countless mephisto runs in Diablo 2 to get my perfect vampire gaze. I'm afraid its you who doesen't get it.

[DieAlteHexe]

and giving stuff away for worthless credits is that "achivement" you're talking about?

 

No.

 

Might want to read what I've been typing.

[DarthKhaos]

Patch hits... Look I can buy a purple crystal! I'm... just... like... y... Where'd you get that purple saber with the black core?

 

The cycle continues...

[chton]

You're obviously just as concerned since you engage in shameless self promotion with "I do it cause I know I'm cool" type comments that are nothing more than panhandling for praise in a video game forum.

 

When game makers trivialize past rewards in their games it kills any incentive for whatever current rewards there are to be strived for. Why would I spend hours of effort trying to get something in a game if I know the next month it will just be handed to any keyturning bad who plays 1-4 hours a month?

 

You say its about showing off in game but that isn't what drove me to countless mephisto runs in Diablo 2 to get my perfect vampire gaze. I'm afraid its you who doesen't get it.

 

No I get it, you need some one to look at you and say oooh you are uber. What's not to understand, children need constant attention. I don't fish for compliments, I know what I did. Why does that upset people? IF you need people to boost your self esteem then you want symbols so you can be recognized. If I know I have accomplished something it's sufficient.

I understand that this isn't enough for some people.

[Vlaxitov]

No I get it, you need some one to look at you and say oooh you are uber. What's not to understand, children need constant attention. I don't fish for compliments, I know what I did. Why does that upset people? IF you need people to boost your self esteem then you want symbols so you can be recognized. If I know I have accomplished something it's sufficient.

I understand that this isn't enough for some people.

 

Sorry but I percieve your previous comments as panhandling for praise and "nuh uh cause I say so" isn't changing my mind on that.

 

I sign up to play online games for incentives, challenges, and competition, not for facebook with an avatar.

[JediElf]

Love it when people say they don't do it for the gear, then get bent out of shape when the gear becomes available through some other means. Can't have it both ways, sorry.

 

"There has to be some kind of goal to accomplish or people will lose interest."

 

To believe that having a certain color of lightsaber/blaster bolt color or a certain speeder appearance is the "goal" is very odd to me (and apparently many others).

 

The "goal" should be entertainment. You can still go on the adventures, you can still do the content, you can still "accomplish" tasks and overcome the obstacles and challenges presented to you. So, in fact, the goal very much still exists.

 

When your "goal" is nothing more than acquiring gear...or worse yet soothing your ego by comparing your stat mods to others in an online game...then I'm sorry, you're going to be disappointed. The purpose of this genre is to entertain customers, not to form a foundation of self-worth.

 

Syylara hit the nail on the head, with this post.

[LucisAbyssus]

No you don't.

1.1.5 adds vendor with pvp stat items too. As well as pvp speeder (I'm not 100% sure of that though cause the amout of these huge white speeders make if confusing to find which is achieved in which way when difference is very slight in color accents.)

 

Yes but instead of buying bags you have to buy them with valor or whatever.