GOYAFIDO Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 http://www.keenandgraev.com/2012/02/14/copy-gold-leader-out/ I haven't been keeping up closely with these guys. But Keen is uncannily right in his perceptions a vast majority of the time. Besides his assessments, in addition I can not tolerate the bugs and poor design elements which just make you wonder about the designers professionalism, if not their talent. Also the general game management structure and failure of proper public relations and in game support. It was great while it lasted and save something biblical in effect to change how the game plays and feels, I do not see this title lasting. I'll hang out a while longer, probably go back to an older title like DDO.. I'm sure they've added content by now.. Quoting myself, sorry... I find it interesting that so many people on the forums and on websites blame Bioware for the social inclinations of today's player base. People are more insular and less social in a lot of ways despite, (or perhaps because of in some ways), social media. We have more ways to be together apart then we ever had before and I think peoples interaction in MMOs reflects this. Without existing varied reasons for group interest there won't be as much grouping as there could be. Bioware added social ranks and gear. Hey it's something! Even in a game like EVE, there are plenty of players who solo, and EVE has many more reasons to want to move and interact in groups, (albeit EVE's open nature also attracts griefers and trolls and actively supports their activities with little or no consequence past being "concordokkened" thus vastly reducing EVE's potential customer base size...), so to blame people's lack of interest in socializing on the developer doesn't seem very reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orduno Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and this guy did a good job of not making it preachy or needlessly flaming. But it's hardly a review, just several lines of "I don't like it." Which, again, is a perfectly valid opinion. Just not an interesting, remarkable, or insightful one. I dunno what the big deal is about this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draylore Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The best thing bioware could do is to join the fanboys in ignoring these guys and continue to produce and maintain the content that their target demographic and revenue producers seek. These two do not represent their target demographic, but a tiny fringe minority. Well, I was talking more in general......not specifically about the blog posted in the OP, although alot of what was in that blog while lacking details spoke to alot of the common issues I think many see with the game. In general, I think it is in Bioware's best interest to take to heart some of the more common and repeated complaints about the game. This isnt just one person out of the blue claiming that the game post-story (endgame) is severely lacking. Its pretty obvious to anyone that has experience in MMOs that once you get past the well done story and voice acting aspects of the game ....the level of quality in TOR drastically drops. From easily/quickly exhausted endgame content to primitive UI.....the list is rather long. It honestly feels like two seperate games. I have played a lot of MMOs and this is the first one that I can recall where upon reaching level cap the time it took me to lose interest in playing/progressing my character was almost 'immediate'. (i.e days/weeks instead of months/years like it has been in other games). TOR looked to have potential.......I have never had such a enjoyable leveling experience as I had in TOR but BW really needs to step it up and fix the rest because without that ...as a MMO TOR will not live up to what it can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pravis Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 What's missing is a lack of context. A lot if these bloggers, and forum posters seem to forget that they've been playing MMOs for roughly 10 years....and its a combination of burn out and that they, as people, have grown up and changed. The games gave gotten better, SWTOR as well as others, but the small portion of the target audience has changed priorities and dobt want to admit it. TL;DR...bloggers and posters younger selves would be praising most of these new games but they've gotten older and burned out playing and keeping up with MMOs for the past decade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pravis Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Article is written by someone who has been playing MMOs forever....after years of playing and giving yourself a second job of blogging in the genre and playing games to death you will get burned out and change priorities as well as age yourself out if the target audience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 quit bumping this POS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzarel Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Kinda makes me wonder. People have put up with far worse and even now tout how awesome it was. Has the gamer nation as a whole turned into such wusses? Or people are starting after years of mmo exsperiences in themeparks, to wake up to the feeling its no longer enough for them, while sand box games might be a bit broad and perhaps less user friendly to new players. I think more starting to realise they want more of the dynamic player generated content like it presents, and less gear centric loot grind type of games, which blantly try to disguise that its only long term content they can provide for gamers. Edited February 28, 2012 by Barzarel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der_Toter Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) i'm just confused as to why people are comparing a 5+ year MMO to one that is barely 2 months old now. Maybe I just don't get it. I love tor for what it is and continue to play it because I enjoy the game and it's features. Take it for what it is, not what other games should make it. Edited February 28, 2012 by Der_Toter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHChrist Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Pretty much what someone needs to come up with is a big ole game of Age of Empires. People gather resources, build factories, build bases, launch strikes, destory bases, rebuild, fight real or NPC players (you never know if someone is a player or NPC), raid dungeons, crafting seige engines, etc. Pretty much everything at level 50 is tied into the war effort in one form or another. For balance, you can either adjust the amount of resources need to do stuff or add a third computer faction. A droid army that fights everyone and attacks the stronger of the two factions to keep things fair. Maybe have some relic or something in a huge base that can be taken if the server coordinates a well-planned strike. Of course the droid army will want it once it is taken and throw endless waves of attacks. Give some sort of rating based on the number of days the item is held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Bioware added social ranks and gear. Hey it's something!It's a joke; it's something they can point to and say "Hey, it's something!" And blaming it on zeitgeist...rofl, you sound like a teacher's union rep. Yes, blame it on developers, because if you even begin to split the blame, developers won't even make an effort to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xDreegan Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Pretty much what someone needs to come up with is a big ole game of Age of Empires. People gather resources, build factories, build bases, launch strikes, destory bases, rebuild, fight real or NPC players (you never know if someone is a player or NPC), raid dungeons, crafting seige engines, etc. Pretty much everything at level 50 is tied into the war effort in one form or another. For balance, you can either adjust the amount of resources need to do stuff or add a third computer faction. A droid army that fights everyone and attacks the stronger of the two factions to keep things fair. Maybe have some relic or something in a huge base that can be taken if the server coordinates a well-planned strike. Of course the droid army will want it once it is taken and throw endless waves of attacks. Give some sort of rating based on the number of days the item is held. Give this man some money and a team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Pretty much what someone needs to come up with is a big ole game of Age of Empires. People gather resources, build factories, build bases, launch strikes, destory bases, rebuild, fight real or NPC players (you never know if someone is a player or NPC), raid dungeons, crafting seige engines, etc. Pretty much everything at level 50 is tied into the war effort in one form or another. For balance, you can either adjust the amount of resources need to do stuff or add a third computer faction. A droid army that fights everyone and attacks the stronger of the two factions to keep things fair. Maybe have some relic or something in a huge base that can be taken if the server coordinates a well-planned strike. Of course the droid army will want it once it is taken and throw endless waves of attacks. Give some sort of rating based on the number of days the item is held. Except I log in to have fun and play a game, not to have another job working for a virtual "war effort". Edit: [...] These two brothers are studying to be in game design. They have evaluated the pros and cons in various titles, versus their vision of achieving perfection, for years. Well Keen specifically as Graev is more the hard core gamer. [...] Of the things passed over in this thread I feel the need to point out how ridiculous the emboldened statement is. As though the simple act of studying game design adds any validation to their statements Edited February 29, 2012 by MillionsKNives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHeissi Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 i'm just confused as to why people are comparing a 5+ year MMO to one that is barely 2 months old now. Maybe I just don't get it. I love tor for what it is and continue to play it because I enjoy the game and it's features. Take it for what it is, not what other games should make it. don't worry. there are a "couple" threads out there explaining why the comparison is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkJedi Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 good read, took the words right out of my mouth.... couldnt have summarized the failures in this game better myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadaverus Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Sadly, Keen and Graev's blog pretty much sums up my own conclusions as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrix Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 It's disturbing how close this is to how I'm feeling about the game. I had been thinking the problem was with me, that I was simply not enjoying it like I should be. But no, that blog post says exactly what I wasn't even sure if I was feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUBBUH Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 i'm just confused as to why people are comparing a 5+ year MMO to one that is barely 2 months old now. Maybe I just don't get it. I love tor for what it is and continue to play it because I enjoy the game and it's features. Take it for what it is, not what other games should make it. Yeah that little dungeon finder...should've been implemented. WoW set the stepping stones for mmos. At least for improvements. "UMG FGGT NO EVERQUEST DID" etc etc. Point is, in the whole perspective, TOR is a clone. With a star wars skin. You had one statement here, that makes me sad. "Take it for what it is, not what other games should make it" So this is the attitude we "QQERS" are dealing with. Just bend over and take it with no lube. No thanks, I won't let this game be crushed because of a greedy EA scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisra Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 PRETTY GOOD SINGLE PLAYER GAME This game met my expectations. And well, sometimes it sucks to be right. I was expecting this game to be like a pretty good single player game with other people around. Look at who is developing the game, Bioware. Pretty good at making single player games. Look at who is publishing the game, EA. I actually know a regional General Manager of EA and he said that EA prefers to sell single player games. You make it, you ship it, you take the money. He also said that single player game profit margins are better than drugs'. The single player leveling content is pretty good. I am still enjoying it going onto my 3rd toon, albeit on the other faction now, since twice over on the same faction seems enough for me. BIOWARE CLUELESS ABOUT MULTIPLAYER It is obvious that Bioware is weak on the multi-player side. Sure those expertise can be bought. But if the key decision makers have the single player mindset, then those experts will be sidelined. Anything that involves multiple players is weaker in this game than its competitors: crafting/economy, pve, pvp, gear rewards, drops, rares, etc. Can they learn? Sure. I hope they do. Will they learn? Depends whether they feel they need to or not. They might very well be perfectly happy with the game as it is. Mass Effect Lite without the software piracy. BUGS OR VISION I used to be pissed off with buggy games. I definitely have said before that I prefer a relatively bug free game that has lots of players over a game with a strong vision that is filled with bugs. I am not so sure now. Yes, SWTOR has bugs. But to be honest, relatively less bugs than complete bug-fests of some game's launch. But now, I am starting to feel that if the vision of the developers is meh. Even completely bug free, and with a highish pop, the game will not hold my attention. I might actually masochistically enjoy a buggy game, hoping that the bugs will eventually get fixed, more. Currently continued my sub for another 3 months to help friends experience the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teront Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 What i got out of that write up was. I'm a game hopper , nothing satisfies me. Because i expect mmo's to be a complete product when they launch. I know nothing about the world of making games and have ADD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrondorStone Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Although I agree that each of you is entitled to your personal feelings for the game, I would suggest you do what I do. Stop and think... WHAT OTHER GOOD STAR WARS MMO IS OUT THERE FOR ME TO PLAY???????? Okay, now that I have your attention please stop crying about something your bored with and go play something else. :D Edited March 4, 2012 by CrondorStone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUBBUH Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Although I agree that each of you is entitled to your personal feelings for the game, I would suggest you do what I do. Stop and think... WHAT OTHER GOOD STAR WARS MMO IS OUT THERE FOR ME TO PLAY???????? Okay, now that I have your attention please stop crying about something your bored with and go play something else. :D I guess my dreams? What kind of question is this. They took the stars wars franchise and destroyed it, left it with no dignity and smiled. So whats your point "LOLOL ITS ONLY STAR WARS MOMO" Yeah, is it the only MMO? Hell no, i can name 5 that are better at launch. Oh and "Crying" there's that word again! Its actually criticism. Yeah, i don't keep the fenders on and pretend everything is alright. So will i complain? Yeah. Will i cry and lose sleep over this? Probably not. But I'd much rather be truthful and a QQer then an idiot with the fenders on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvonuk Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 http://www.keenandgraev.com/2012/02/14/copy-gold-leader-out/ I haven't been keeping up closely with these guys. But Keen is uncannily right in his perceptions a vast majority of the time. Besides his assessments, in addition I can not tolerate the bugs and poor design elements which just make you wonder about the designers professionalism, if not their talent. Also the general game management structure and failure of proper public relations and in game support. It was great while it lasted and save something biblical in effect to change how the game plays and feels, I do not see this title lasting. I'll hang out a while longer, probably go back to an older title like DDO.. I'm sure they've added content by now.. That was on a par with taking a dump outside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dehy Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 If they don't do something pretty spectacular with patch 1.2 i'm out as well. Game is just too casual for my taste. Leveled too fast. Operations and Flashpoints are extremely easy. I have a 50 BH 14/14 BM PvP Sith Jugg Rakata PvE bank toon is a 31 Operative that i level up with just PvP'ng and there is no way i could bring myself to leveling another toon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tormeanted Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Spot on summary those guys have. Too bad they skipped the cross server dungeon finder. Sometimes you have to run a dungeon a few times and it grows on you. I cringe at making the group more than running the instance. NO LFG = NO MMO these days. Sad but true. OMG Here come the trolls Bioware hired to run around the forums and attack all day. **** NOOB. JOIN GUILD. IT'S MMO. U SUCK. BYE. WE DON't MISS YOU! Guess what? We are getting the f out. This week alone sever populations are down 5-10% from last week.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicmanNC Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Well, to put it gently, I totally disagree with that little blog there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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